Two Major Projects up for Site Plan Approval

In March of 2017, Sobeys showed the public their plans for expansion of the Foodland Supermarket. They want a new enlarged store and the required public meeting and re-zoning approval happened last year.   The Site Plan is now with the Planning Department. Changes from the public meeting have been incorporated and Council will be asked to approve a Development agreement at their next Committee of the Whole Meeting on Monday March 26.  At the same meeting, the developer of the Cedar Shore Estates property on King Street West (near Monk’s Cove) is asking for a subdivision agreement so the building of 14 homes can proceed.  This was first discussed in 2015 when the property was up for sale at an asking price of $1.5M (see links below). 

Sobeys

Simplified Site Plan - Sobeys
Simplified Site Plan – Sobeys

At the public meeting and in the Planning & Sustainability Advisory Committee, there were concerns raised about the entrance and exit so the plan was modified.  The new plan eliminates all existing entrances/exits and replaces them with one at the south end onto Division and another onto Patterson Street where there are lights controlling access to Division Street.  At right is an updated simplified site plan.

It seems the store will still be called Foodland, not Sobey’s.  The Site plan also confirms that “similar to the re-development of the No Frills supermarket, the redevelopment of the Sobeys site will be implemented in Stages. The existing supermarket will remain open while the new store is being constructed at the north end of the site. Detailed staging plans have been submitted to illustrate how the site will function during construction to ensure safety of customers and workers.”  See links below for details.

Cedar Shore Estates

This project started in 2015 with an application for re-zoning and a public meeting.  The re-zoning was approved in July 2016 and now the developer has submitted a site plan for approval. The development has “fifteen (15) residential lots, one of which will be maintained by the existing historical residential building (photo at right) and coach house building. The remaining fourteen (14) lots will be improved by single detached residential dwellings.”

Cedars - Heritage House
Cedars – Heritage House

To provide for a future waterfront trail along the lakeshore (per the official plan – as yet not published), 1.12 acres will be conveyed to the Town for use as a public park and trail.  This will connect to Monk’s Cove.

The building of houses will be subject to “Architectural Control Guidelines” to preserve the Heritage character of the neighbourhood.  The implication is that houses will not all be designed or built by the same developer.  It’s expected to be a “high quality residential environment”.  The developer plans to preserve “a significant number of existing tree resources” and although some will be removed, “tree removals are recommended to occur outside of the recognized active bird nesting periods between approx. May and August.”  Provision will also be made to preserve bat habitats.

The developer has agreed to repair the damaged Lake Ontario shoreline along the subdivision frontage to pre-existing conditions (pre 2017 erosion). 

It looks like Cedar Shore Estates will be a plus for the high end housing market in Cobourg.

Update

Below is what the developer expects a typical bungalow to look like.

Shores
Typical Bungalow at Cedar Shores

Links

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Miriam Mutton

Regarding the typical bungalow picture … looks very nice. But, are those fake windows decorating the roof? Certainly, bungalows are a popular house form but extra living space in the roof area, for guests or a short term stay, may be a way to optimize the building. Or, in the future, live in help so that aging in place is possible. My point, engineered truss roofs are very popular in new home construction. However, it is possible to create an engineered truss roof which also enables proper living space within the roof space. I think that the building code needs to change to require ‘habitable roof’ spaces. In addition, the province’s planning directive for intensification in urban areas should also mean that wasted space within a building envelope, such as a big roof, be minimized. Compare a typical roof on a heritage home with that of a typical recent build. New roofs are often taller than the living floor of a bungalow style home. The typical modern day roof is a very big roof with a lot of wasted space, and a roof that will be expensive to re-shingle.in the future. And, fake windows make the architecture look cheap. The… Read more »

Wally Keeler

a few years ago I often rode my bike to Timmy Ho’s. I exited on my bike to travel south on Division. It was a two stage crossing for me, crossing northbound, pause, then southbound. It was no hardship. All it required was some attention. It didn’t require a whole reconstruction of the street for those who are attentively challenged. At any rate, autonomous vehicles will be on the roads in a few years and all the fearful drivers of today will be able to exit safely. It’s a waste of money to spend on hesitant tepid drivers, many of whom are beyond their best before driving dates.

Ewok

Wally – the above comment is laughable and perhaps a little out of touch with the reality of motorized traffic on Division today…riding an open air, highly maneuverable, 4 foot long bicycle across a street a busy street, in two stages, is arguably different and easier than any car on the market today. I’m glad to hear you made it safely but comparing your bike experience from a “few years ago” to the experience an individual would have on July 1 at 3:00 p.m. or any Monday morning of any week is apples to oranges. Traffic flow and safety is an issue in this particular area. There needs to be some re-jigging and improvements made – this isn’t about “attentively challenged” drivers…there is an opportunity being presented to correct this let’s hope the Town does something.

Gailr97

A question I have asked of Planning – what is the number of fender benders due to vehicles turning south on Division coming out of the Foodland parking lot? The traffic coming south has just come off the 401 and is still going pretty fast. I do not understand why the chance to improve road safety at no cost is not being taken. I will not be shopping at Foodland while The Patterson exit will be closed due to construction.

Walter L. Luedtke

Perhaps the Police might have that information, especially if the accidents were to be more serious.
In the meantime, boycotting a business that is doing so much for the community is a bit petty.
https://www.therecord.com/shopping-story/5767810-foodland-cobourg-committed-to-community-involvement/

Walter L. Luedtke

There was no ‘force’ involved.
The Town was installing a new water main and it would have made sense to install sanitary sewers at the same time.
The Town was going to assume half the cost, leaving home owners to pay about $7.000.
But only if 2/3 agreed. They did not.
Now, “if lake levels continue to rise, the higher water table may get polluted by the Pebble Beach septic tanks and the Ontario Ministry of Health will mandate that everyone will have to have sewers. In that case, residents will be on the hook for the full cost.” (Deputy Mayor John Henderson)

Dubious

You are evidently not aware of the facts. Considering the levy for the sewer installation, cost to connect to the sewer and increased monthly charges for water and sewer, my total total cost over ten years would have been approximately $100,000 versus less than$1000 for septic tank pumping over the same time. I’m certain that you could easily afford this but I cannot.

Ewok

Walter – Sounds less like a petty boycott of a store and more of an avoidance of inconvenience…let’s call it self-preservation. Also, the attached story is a little dated however I think Foodland does still try to contribute to the community – as do many local merchants. Would be nice to see them reduce some of their prices however….

Jeffy

Does this new housing development mean future town sewer service to the Pebble Beach Drive neighbourhood?

Dubious

Some years ago the town attempted to force Pebble Beach area residents to pay for sewers as a local improvement. This cash grab was rejected by over 90% of the residents.

Walter L. Luedtke

There was no ‘force’ involved.
The Town was installing a new water main and it would have made sense to install sanitary sewers at the same time.
The Town was going to assume half the cost, leaving home owners to pay about $7.000.
But only if 2/3 agreed. They did not.
Now, “if lake levels continue to rise, the higher water table may get polluted by the Pebble Beach septic tanks and the Ontario Ministry of Health will mandate that everyone will have to have sewers. In that case, residents will be on the hook for the full cost.” (Deputy Mayor John Henderson)

Wally Keeler

the town attempted to force Pebble Beach area residents

Typical hyperbolic bloat. FORCED? How did they FORCE them? Why did the FORCE fail? Perhaps it was not FOrCEFUL enough? I’d really appreciate it if Dubious would support his contentions, but that’s like asking the CTA to be transparent. Dubious is a tightwad with an inability to suggest any new ideas, just stale old stale old, eg. bloated bland gland debris.

Dubious

The FORCE failed because the Pebble Beach residents presented a unified force to Council including a petition signed by over 90% of the property owners opposing the proposed sewer connections.

Wally Keeler

Dictionary says 1. physical power or strength possessed by a living being: 2. strength or power exerted upon an object; physical coercion; violence.

As I said, Dubious indulges hyperbolic bloat.

Dubious

I merely reiterated you bloviation.

Wally Keeler

No you didn’t

Deborah OConnor

It is shocking to me that any development in Cobourg would not absolutely require residents to be hooked up to our sewer system. Septic tanks might be acceptable in the country but certainly not in any urban area. I hope they are indeed “forced” into it and pay for it all themselves, selfish tightwads that they are.

Dubious

The Pebble Beach area was developed about 50 years ago — long before many of today’s self-appointed “caring” people were born. Why do you think that we should pay for everything while other areas of Cobourg got sewers from general taxes?

Durka

Just on the topic of Pebble Beach I feel like that development really hemmed in the towns southwest area. Realistically there should’ve been a more prominent King St. thoroughfare through there allowing development to continue westward. The way the roads got laid out its not very conducive to future development. Short-sighted really. I believe that area wasn’t actually developed by the town but it’s weird they just sort of let King St. fizzle out into a residential neighborhood.

Dubious

I’m certain that the owner’s of the Clutterbuck property would have preferred a different result.

Ben

Developed by Hamilton Twp, why do you think Cobourg wants to control its Borders today!

Ben

Get your facts right Dubious the East end of Town had to pay frontage fees when they had their sewers installed in the 90s, What makes you think Pebble Beach shouldn’t contribute?

Dubious

Thank you for the correction; I wasn’t a Cobourg resident in the 90s. Did residents on other streets also pay based on frontage?

Wally Keeler

I’ve been a Cobourger since the late 40s — that’s a depth of experience that recent parachutes of miserly unoriginal snobs can’t claim.

Ben

The east end project was a one-off, but for many years, if you were connected to a Private Sewer – one not assumed by the Town because of bad design and maintenance problems – you had to pay some cost of the replacement when necessary. The problem of Private Sewers disappeared many years ago after one particular home-owner on Henry exposed the whole discriminatory programme.

Frenchy

I’d be interested in knowing where you came up with that $7,000 figure Walter.

Frenchy

Walter?

Walter L. Luedtke

Here we go again!
Seems to me that Greg H’s conjuring up the dubious hazards of making left turns on Division Street is just another pretext for dumping on Town Staff.
Cue a conspiracy by a supine Director of Planning, Glenn McGlashon, and an “out of town corporation” to put the safety of Cobourgers at risk.
Same old, same old bogeyman – an overpaid, conniving, out-of-touch, bloated, empire-building Town bureaucracy.

Greg H

Walter

You continue to find new ways to misunderstand and maliciously misrepresent what people write and think.
The insults that you post are entirely yours, and do not represent my actions, motivations, or thoughts

Happy Easter

Greg

Walter L. Luedtke

“The strange thing is that the planning department agreed with this a year ago, but the change was not included in the site agreement.
Is this because of lobbying by an out of town corporation, who feels that “we always do it this way” is the only approach?”
Your insinuation, not mine.

Dubious

Why did you neglect to mention your other, previously listed, possibility?

Same old, same old bogeyman – an overpaid, conniving, out-of-touch, bloated, empire-building Town bureaucracy.

Miriam Mutton

It is my understanding that when the new Home Hardware on Division St was built they wanted to keep the existing driveway entrance. The result is a ‘pork chop’ traffic island obstruction in the driveway to permit north bound in and north bound out only. All other traffic uses the Kerr Street intersection which will eventually have a signalized intersection and the entrance to the industrial park will be reconfigured to suit. If the argument to have this two way access is based on the fact there is an existing driveway (presently an IN ONLY), it could also be controlled in a similar fashion. Because of the multi-lane street, I find exiting either the Tim Hortons or Foodland in order to travel southbound a potentially high stakes move especially when another driver is attempting a northbound exit from the fast food diner across the street at the same time. If this two way entrance for the new grocery store is built, most likely Division Street will have to be choked from five lanes to three in the future, like we now see at the VIA Rail entrance. And, it would be reasonable to have a bus stop on the food… Read more »

gerinator

Agreed. Further, anecdotally I tell you that a number of times I’ve exited Timmies going North and come grill to grill (without impacts) with a person heading south, turning left into the Foodland. One must be totally awake when exiting Timmies in either direction.

BillP

They should see what Foodland and Timmie did in Wiarton as they are in same area and have specific exits for both and quite safe.

Greg H

Turning south on Division from driveways on the east side can be extremely time consuming waiting for a gap in the northbound traffic. Even when it is free to turn, the two way turn lane in the middle of Division can suddenly be full of oncoming vehicles. This type of hazardous crossing is common on Division from Kerr at Home Hardware, to the Shell Station near the 401, and all the intervening places. I suppose it could it be considered a Cobourg “right of passage”. However, in the case of the Sobey’s Store it is an unnecessary hazard as it could be mitigated by making all southbound traffic exit through Paterson Street and the signalized intersection. This is what the five public comments in March 2017 were asking for. I am sure that the traffic and other experts could prove that the allowed south turn between Sobey’s and Tim’s is legal and “safe”, but it would be even better to just make everybody use the Paterson alternative. The situation at Sobey’s is important because as supermarket they are a high generator of traffic, and there is already a safe way of turning south using the traffic signals at Paterson. The… Read more »

Rusty Brown

The Beer Store is a perfect example: enter off Division; exit onto Munroe St. and then through the traffic lights onto Division St. either northbound or southbound.

Greg H

In March 2017, the CobourgBlog comment on Sobey’s includes
“At the Public meeting about the proposed Sobey’s zoning amendment, five people said they liked the idea of expansion of Sobey’s but did not like the proposed exit at the South end. Several said they the south entrance should be entrance plus exit North only and that the Paterson exit could be used for anyone wishing to go North on Division. Director Glenn McGlashon made it clear that the Planning department was also concerned but that it would be resolved in the next stage which was the Site plan”

Unfortunately, the new site plan still shows the south entrance allowing southbound turns across the northbound traffic flow.

It appears that not much has been achieved for customer and driver safety during the year-long discussions.

Walter L. Luedtke

Hmmmmm!
South-bound motorists seem to have little difficulty in making left-hand turns into neighboring Tim Hortons or any other business on the east side of Division Street.
Why is “customer and driver safety” a problem for the Foodland entrance?

Ewok

Walter I have to assume you’re being sarcastic in your remark….

Walter L. Luedtke

Ewok! When a sentence has a question mark at the end, it tends to be a question.
Hope this helps.

Ewok

Walter! Are you suggesting that question marks remove sarcasm from a sentences?

Frenchy

I think Greg H’s concern was traffic turning south onto Division from the southern entrance, not turning into that entrance from southbound traffic on Division.
“the south entrance should be entrance plus exit North only”
“the new site plan still shows the south entrance allowing southbound turns across the northbound traffic flow.”
Hope this helps.

BillP

No matter what happens here it would seem that Timmies will still rule the roost and be more important. At times when turning into Foodland going south on Division the Timmie folks seem to think that they have the right to turn north on Division and ignore traffic entering Foodland. This is quite a challenge no matter what. Greg H. What would you propose.

Mrs. Anonymous

I completely agree BillP. We have had a lot of discussions at our house about who has the right of way. In practice, the Timmie’s person usually gets the right of way as it’s quite easy to see they are often quite distracted by their recent purchase.

Walter L. Luedtke

Hmmmmm!
Folks seem to have no problems exiting south, accommodating north-bound traffic, from other businesses on the east side of Division.
Starting to wonder whether Cobourgers should venture into real urban areas with real traffic.
And thanks for your help.

Ewok

Walter, either to be intentionally contrary or unintentionally you are missing the point. You see this isn’t, what you refer to as, a “real urban area” and therefore those of us who choose to be Cobourgers have chosen to not to necessarily be subjected to “real traffic” in our daily travels (yay for us!). The fact is entering and exiting Division between Kia and Timmy’s is problematic and has been poorly conceived, designed and executed. I’m fairly certain it can be improved however the adding traffic volume to the equation without making substantive changes is only going to be make things worse.

Old Sailor

The high risk manoeuvres Timmie’s coffee and donut addicts face when leaving the drive thru line, probably keeps the number of addicts to a minimum at that location. Which indirectly promotes healthier Cobourgites. This is a positive situation the town should not tamper with.

A no doubt never to be read late night gem of a thought.

Miriam Mutton

Thank you Old Sailor for that chuckle. Made me laugh out loud.
‘Always look on the bright side of life….’

Frenchy

“Folks seem to have no problems exiting south, accommodating north-bound traffic, from other businesses on the east side of Division.”

What other businesses? Only Tim Hortons on that stretch.
It appears as if they are proposing 2 driveways exiting south within a few meters of each other. Why do you think they don’t do it now Walter?

“Starting to wonder whether Cobourgers should venture into real urban areas with real traffic.”
Are you suggesting Coburgers should only drive their turnip trucks on the back roads. We’re not “real” drivers? Sounds kinda condescending.

“And thanks for your help.”
No problem, we’re here to help each other, right?