Visitor complains to Mayor about Parking Ticket

A recent visitor to Cobourg is unhappy that he received a parking ticket for overstaying at a meter on King Street.  He spent “over $100” at one of the two “nice men’s clothing stores” and admits staying about 10 minutes longer than he paid for but says that although Cobourg “depends on tourist dollars for a good part of their economy”, it’s not doing everything possible to encourage tourism.  He asks for 10 minutes grace.  He perhaps did not notice that meters on King Street already give 15 minutes more than the hour that a loonie pays for.  But when you think about it, that’s not a grace period – it’s just more time for your money.  A “grace period” is when the meter says expired and you don’t get a ticket for a period of time.

Every December, the DBIA arranges for a genuine grace period of an hour – when the meter says expired, you won’t get a ticket for an hour.  But that doesn’t apply the rest of the year.

Cobourg Parking Meter
Cobourg Parking Meter

Of course if you use the Honk Mobile app, you can remotely “feed the meter” but the unhappy visitor (David Little) seems to have used cash.  The photo at right shows what the meters now look like.

But David goes on to say:

Have you considered, possibly, giving the owners of cars parked a bit too long a 10 minute period of grace?  A nice note stating that the Downtown Business Association has added half an hour to your parking time might also give out of town shoppers the sense of being welcome.

People tend to treat others the way they themselves are treated.  When we next drop one of our children or friends at the train station, we will probably drive to Port Hope for shopping and eating.

May I respectfully request that you examine the ways in which you treat visitors?

His letter is on the Agenda for the Council meeting on Monday, September 10 because he asked the mayor to share the note with Council.  It’s unlikely that anything will change but the letter once again raises the subjects of Tourism and Parking.

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Gil B
5 years ago

Paid parking downtown was supported by the DBIA and the town of Cobourg. The revenue it generates is critically important to the future development of downtown parking. It should come as no surprise that someday in the near future we will lose a large part of our parking that we currently lease and will have to replace it at a significant cost. Some of the parking revenues go towards our costs and the remainder goes into a Parking Reserve so we can minimize the burden on taxpayers when this day comes. I could be wrong but I think even the CTA would approve of this although they tend to line up behind whatever they think will give them some much needed traction. For 2017 downtown parking revenue was $185K, parking passes generated $70K, Victoria Park revenue was $260K, and fines (the majority from Victoria Park) were $140K. User pay at work!

Ken Strauss
Reply to  Gil B
5 years ago

What is the current balance of the Parking Reserve? Can you provide an estimate of the cost of replacing the currently leased parking?

Gil B
Reply to  Ken Strauss
5 years ago

Sorry for the late response but I don’t have time to read the blog daily. The current balance as of the end of 2017 is $547,800, with more to be added for 2018. The replacement costs will run into several million as the only sensible option is a multi-level parking facility on Covert St. It would not make sense to use potentially developable land in the downtown core for parking.

Gerald
5 years ago

I agree the public needs to know a grace period is already included. As far as getting a ticket while shopping; pay the fine and quit whining. When I travelled to downtown Toronto for the day, I parked once; did all my shopping, and other touristy stuff and ended the day with dinner. When I got back late to my car I had a ticket. I didn’t write a letter and complain to the Mayor. I was raised to accept the consequences of my actions, I paid the fine online when I got home. My outlay was considerably more than one hundred dollars. The fine was double what it is here in Cobourg.

Rob
5 years ago

If grace is to be provided I would suggest that charity begin at home…I believe a voucher should be issued to residents of Cobourg to allow to FREE parking in the downtown area to promote attendance at local events and patronizing local shops – limit this to a particular period during the year if you like. I wouldn’t suggest not having a grace period, with a notification procedure to the visitor…I think the message is a positive one and a token gesture which is not soon forgotten.

Of course CTA sympathizers (and others) will cry foul regarding the wasted/lost revenues in inequitably propping up downtown businesses….so be it. Opinions are like bellybuttons…

Jason Beatty
5 years ago

Some lesson’s are best learned the hard way I guess. I’ve had a parking ticket in the past and paid without issue. I knew the rules when I parked, and failed to adhere to them. Sure the punishment stings a bit, but the lesson was learned and hopefully the money is put to good use (finger’s crossed). Now, I tend to throw an extra quarter or two in the machine leaving time for the next person.

manfred s
Reply to  Jason Beatty
5 years ago

100%. How refreshing to see someone take personal responsibility instead of looking to someone else to ‘make it all better’!

cornbread
Reply to  manfred s
5 years ago

Another fine example of “User Pays”.

Damit
5 years ago

Paying for parking is a standard in almost every city around the world. I don’t think Cobourg should be any different. Had coffee yesterday on King, parking was free, then headed to the beach, not free. However a short drive away and it is free to park where you can just walk to the beach.

Elaine
5 years ago

I got a ticket in Port Hope. I mentioned it to a store owner on the main street. and she took my ticket and paid it for me. She said that any of the businesses in Port Hope will do the same. She also gave me a small gift from her store for my “trouble”. Cobourg DBIA might want to pay attention.

ben
5 years ago

Parking meters are not infallible. A month ago one meter outside the Oasis did not register my coin. I immediately phoned the Town and asked to speak to “Bylaws” – got a machine and told it that the meter has malfunctioned and if I got a ticket I would like it to be cancelled. Surpriise Surpriiise when I returned I had a ticket on the windshield. I trotted off to the Town Hall where I spoke to the manager of the bylaws and related my tale of woe. He was totally unsympathetic and told me that the machine would be checked and my call would be traced. At the end of the day I received a message that the machine had tested to be correct and that they could not find my message on a machine. Cut a long story short I had the ticket cancelled because after sending a screen shot of the call history and telling the Manager that I would be contesting the ticket at no cost to me but great cost to the Town I was told that they had found the message and because that message was the same message I had told the Manager in the first place, the ticket was being withdrawn.

Just a tale from a persistent stubborn old guy!

Walter L. Luedtke
Reply to  ben
5 years ago

Chuckles.
Attaboy Ben.
Speaking Truth to Power!

Rusty Brown
Reply to  ben
5 years ago

Good for you, Ben. Your efforts are valued.

Walter Luedtke
5 years ago

Ah yes!
The immortal bard, William Shakespeare, already felt your pain when he penned these immortal lines; “parking is such sweet sorrow…”.
Of course, some sorrowful folks overlook the fact that plentiful free parking is available on behind the stores on both sides of King Street.
These folks feel that is their absolute right to park for free right in front of the store they want to visit downtown.
These same folks think nothing of walking long distances outside in Mall parking lots and inside down long corridors.
Sighs.

Pablo
Reply to  Walter Luedtke
5 years ago

Yeah. And how long will it be until gates are installed so the town can charge for parking there too? Sighs.

Albert
Reply to  Pablo
5 years ago

Ridiculous!

Dubious
Reply to  Walter Luedtke
5 years ago

For many years on-street parking in downtown Cobourg was free. Pay parking is just another example of downtown merchants fighting to eliminate their clientele.

Walter L. Luedtke
Reply to  Dubious
5 years ago

And here I thought that you CTA folks were all in favour of “user pay”.
But maybe only if you don’t have to pay?

Dubious
Reply to  Walter L. Luedtke
5 years ago

King Street parking is irrelevant; my bank has their own parking lot. If the merchants choose to discourage potential customers that is their decision.

Walter L. Luedtke
Reply to  Dubious
5 years ago

So “user pay” is only for other folks.
Good to know!

Dubious
Reply to  Walter L. Luedtke
5 years ago

User pay is for those who use something. I don’t use King Street parking so your comment is immaterial.

manfred s
Reply to  Dubious
5 years ago

how much control over this do you think the merchants actually have, Dubious? Maybe you could ask them and see what they think about this, instead of saying something so silly.

Dubious
Reply to  manfred s
5 years ago

The previous time that parking meters came to King St the reaction of the merchants was a little different. See page 9 of the newsletter at https://cdhs.ca/images/newsletters/NewsletterSep14.pdf Why were they so docile this time?

manfred s
Reply to  Dubious
5 years ago

while you are certainly free to make the assumption that they were ‘so docile this time’, it may well be an erroneous one, Dubious. The relavent discussions between the Town and the DBIA we’re not reported upon so it’s hard to say how docile or vigorous they may have been. What is sure is that the Town will always get their way, and we know what that ‘way’ was because of the result. One bit of speculation is that the Town demanded a certain amount of revenue from the parking spaces downtown and the DBIA could not come up with the ransom, which at some point in the past had been as much as $25,000 a year to keep meters off the streets. The default would then have been the installation of meters. We should note that as a result, meters were installed, BUT not just in the retail area proper. They we’re also installed around the park and other non-retail areas, something the merchants would likely not be involved with. That also serves as a clue as to the actual motivation for installing meters. But hey, who’s to know the truth of it. As a merchant at the time, I know where I stood on the matter and it didn’t matter one iota because they were ultimately installed anyway.

Walter Luedtke
Reply to  manfred s
5 years ago

Seems to me that parking meters are one way of rationing a scarce commodity – downtown parking. Nothing more.

Dubious
Reply to  manfred s
5 years ago

I suspect that your analysis is correct. It is curious that the DBIA chose to remain silent instead of blaming the guilty as in the previous parking meter installation. What was their benefit?

manfred s
Reply to  Dubious
5 years ago

in the article you cite, Dubious, the merchants who spoke out were actually members of the then Chamber of Commerce, a voluntary and paid membership representing their organization and not necessarily the entire merchant body in the downtown. This time it was the DBIA, a mandatory unpaid membership that by mandate, must represent the entire business sector downtown. In the first case, it was likely that those involved were so by virtue of their voluntary membership and therefore were all in agreement with the position being put forward while in the present day case, there was a division between those who supported the position that they could not afford the ransom and those who felt the Town left them no choice but to pay it. Since the DBIA is mandated to represent all the businesses downtown equally, it was in a very difficult position, and speaking out meant misrepresenting at least a portion of the membership. It was probably the only fair thing to do by remaining publicly silent and let the Town do what it was going to do regardless. Publicly blaming and shaming the organization to which you are ultimately responsible and dependant on to some degree is not a beneficial decision or course of action. At least, that’s my speculation, based on the bits of information that I had about it.

John Draper
Reply to  manfred s
5 years ago

Before commenting on who decided to put the meters back on King Street, I recommend a re-read of the article on the subject dated 19 April 2014 in the links at the bottom of the article above. It seems the DBIA board unanimously decided to retain the $25,000 the Town wanted (to hold off on installing the meters) knowing that then the meters would be installed.

manfred s
Reply to  John Draper
5 years ago

John, your comment suggests that the DBIA was the one “who decided to put the meters back on King Street” but the fact is that the DBIA made 2 points at the time, namely, “That the Board intended to retain the annual parking subsidy it pays to the Town in the amount of $25,000.00 as of 2014.” and “That the Board encourages the Town to pursue paid parking options with the objective of a parking program that is fiscally self-sufficient.” Encouraging the town to pursue “paid parking OPTIONS”, while those options would likely include meters, they are by no means a suggestion nor a limitation to putting meters on King and Division Streets. It could well have included meters in many other public spaces such as at Pads one and two, the CCC, the dog park and around parks themselves, to mention a few. It is also clear that the DBIA felt that its mandate did not include replacing parking revenue (which is borne out by the legislated purpose of the DBIA) that could be derived from paid parking and hence its intent to keep the annual contribution for its intended and mandated uses. It appears to me that the Board, with the open support of approximately 40 members, or about 9% of its membership , had little choice but to acquiesce to the Town’s wishes, which we can see to have been driven by their own commissioned parking study that recommended the installation of meters. Its also evident that the DBIA did NOT suggest meters as the ‘preferred method’ of establishing a self-sustaining revenue tool, only that it felt the Town should look elsewhere for its sought after revenue. Ultimately it was Town staff who recommended meters, and their locations, as their preferred option. This version of events certainly diminishes the notion that the DBIA was the perpetrator or full supporter of metered parking and should be seen more as the unwilling participant in their ultimate implementation. I would imagine that any member of the then Board of Directors could clarify exactly what transpired in the ‘negotiations’ that led to the final decisions taken by the Town at that time, something that would make more sense than the conjectures, speculation and prejudiced interpretations we’ve seen here up to now.

Dubious
Reply to  manfred s
5 years ago

Manfred, it may have been reasonable for the DBIA to approve paid parking on behalf of its members. However, did any individual merchant object using letters to the editor of our two papers at the time, delegations before Council or…?

manfred s
Reply to  Dubious
5 years ago

I have no idea, Dubious. I registered my objection and concerns with the Board, but I was under no illusion about the result, having experienced negotiations with the Town pertaining to similar and other matters. That’s not to say that all such negotiations had been difficult in the past, but they certainly hold the upper hand in all cases.

manfred s
Reply to  Walter Luedtke
5 years ago

Walter, have you ever wondered why, in this day and age of “user pay”, NONE of the sports facilities that provide parking have any fees directly paid by the users? In the case of the CCC, which has a helluva lot of parking, the “costs associated with providing parking” are obviously buried in the operating expenses which are highly subsidized by public money. The sports facilities are not used by anything close to 100% of the general public even although they are open to them, like the streets downtown. Does it make sense, in the issue of fairness, to handle these parking costs differently from others?

Walter L. Luedtke
Reply to  manfred s
5 years ago

Good point Manfred!
Perhaps the CCC should collect parking fees. Would surely help with operating costs.
I was coming at this from another direction.
The same folks who don’t like ‘user pay’ when it comes to parking meters, insist on it when it comes to the marina.
Go figure!

Rob
Reply to  Walter L. Luedtke
5 years ago

Parking at the CCC is utterly atrocious and any fee collected would and should give rise to a string of complaints….I believe the facility was planned, designed and built without any consideration for parking in particular when hosting a large scale event (i.e. concerts, hockey tournaments, etc..)

I also don’t think “they” consulted with anyone who has ever played hockey or been a hockey parent given the height of the shower heads in the bathroom, the embarrassingly undersized, under staffed and under scheduled canteen (improvements have been made and are recognized), size of the pro-shop (best sharpening in town however) and other practical short comings…

manfred s
Reply to  Rob
5 years ago

nevertheless Rob, the parking is still subsidized by public money, not paid directly by the users. And that’s the point about how parking is a political matter rather than an equality issue. Town politicians don’t have the moxy to apply the rules fairly accross the board for fear of the backlash if they did. They do, though, use it as a club to keep some organizations in line and avoid criticism of their policies.

manfred s
Reply to  Walter L. Luedtke
5 years ago

I’m thinking the ‘terminology’ sometimes makes things more or less palatable, regardless of the root reason. Go figure that too. Hell, it’s what politicians play at all the time, and we the great unwashed just believe the parts we like and bitch about everything else. Parking or ‘convenience’ fees really are no different in my view. So, in all of this parking stuff, where do we find the middle ground, the proverbial ‘fence’ for them to sit on? At this point, they just point at someone and say ‘it’s their (DBIA) fault’. lordy ,lordy

manfred s
Reply to  Walter Luedtke
5 years ago

Walter, what if we looked at it from a perspective of meters collecting ‘convenience fee’? The shorter the distance between parking spot and destination, the higher the convenience fee. Spots far enough away, or less convenient, have no fees attached. badaboom, badabing

Walter L. Luedtke
Reply to  manfred s
5 years ago

I like it!

Barry
5 years ago

Glad to hear that this person was shopping in Cobourg, to bad about the parking ticket…but everyone plays by the same rules regardless whether you are a tourist or a resident…if your parking meter is expired…you will probably get a ticket. It’s the same in most every town…its not necessarily a big revenue stream for the Town of Cobourg but it does stop people from “squatting” their car all day on a business street…and whether your local purchase was a $100 shirt or a $3 cup of coffee…that’s not relevent…your meter expired…..you pay the fine…next time add an extra 25 cents to the meter.

Dubious
Reply to  Barry
5 years ago

Or shop at the mall.

Walter L. Luedtke
Reply to  Dubious
5 years ago

Of course, parking at the mall is “free”?
The construction, cleaning, snow ploughing and maintenance of the parking lots are done by volunteer dwarves who magically appear at night.
Go take an Economics 101 course and explore the concept of “the free lunch”!

Dubious
Reply to  Walter L. Luedtke
5 years ago

Ridiculous! I assume that you never passed Eco101.
The parking lot maintenance is part of the rent paid by the mall merchants and eventually is added to the price of the merchandise sold or results in a reduced profit for the merchant. The price of the merchandise is what I pay; downtown I pay the marked price + separate parking charges. However, the important difference is that the mall shops are open when I want to shop plus there is a grocery store.

Rosemary C Avery Mrs Jenkins
5 years ago

l totally agree = some years ago in small town in the U.S – not noticing parking meter box we enjoyed our lunch on returning to our vehicle was a note “guess you didn’t see the meter box – but that’s ok – enjoy our town and come again – subsequent to that experience we stopped each and every time we travelled we stopped at this friendly town – also in Peterborough – while working l noticed a bock away the “meter man” l indicated l was coming – possibly looking a bit frantic – only to be told “you are ok we allow 20 minutes overtime – guess what = l shop in Peterborough

Frank Godfrey
Reply to  Rosemary C Avery Mrs Jenkins
5 years ago

A similar thing happened to us in Picton a few years ago. It sticks in your memory.

Wendy
Reply to  Rosemary C Avery Mrs Jenkins
5 years ago

The tourist centre in Port Hope gave us a free parking pass so could enjoy lunch before house hunting, nice touch that we appreciated.

Hillary
Reply to  Rosemary C Avery Mrs Jenkins
5 years ago

Driving to Peterborough to shop for an extra 20 minutes parking overtime?
Good plan!

Pablo
5 years ago

When I moved to Northumberand County from T.O. ten years ago, one of the charming things about Cobourg was the fact that there were no parking meters on King Street. Parking spots were readily available, and it was easy to park, shop and stroll the town’s main street without having to pay for parking, or fear of getting a ticket. This was a true novelty for someone from the city.

Although I do not live “in town”, I am a frequent visitor to Cobourg, and am a regular patron of many of its businesses, and do not consider myself a “tourist”. Since parking meters were installed I find myselt venturing downtown less and less. It is far easier and cheaper to park at the mall or Walmart.

I do not know the exact reasons the town’s braintrust decided to install parking meters. I suspect it was seen as a “revenue tool” by the municipality (cash grab, more like) who were undoubtedly egged on by grumpy downtown residents intent on deterring hoards of “outsiders” from visiting Cobourg’s local businesses.

I hope the DBIA, Mayor and town council read this post and take notice of the fact that it is not just occassional tourists in the summer who find parking meters irritating, and object to getting nickle and dimed to death at every turn. Often to the detriment of local businesses, as evidenced by the large number of vacant retail spaces on King Street.

Hillary
Reply to  Pablo
5 years ago

“Brain trust and cash grab and hordes/hoards and nickel and dimed to death”!
Welcome to this blog. There are lots of your lot here already.

Pablo
Reply to  Hillary
5 years ago

And your comments mean what exactly?
That my opinions (and those of my “lot”) are irrelevant?
You must be one of those grumpy downtown residents I referenced..

cornbread
5 years ago

Glad to see our Parking Staff do their job. To bad our Police Force can’t catch a few of our Red Light\Stop Sign runners at University & William…While stopped at this light yesterday, four cars ran the red light for a right turn to go north on William. Running stop signs seems to be a passion in this town.

Durka
Reply to  cornbread
5 years ago

I wasn’t there to witness what you are talking about but it is legal to turn right on a red unless otherwise stated.

cornbread
Reply to  Durka
5 years ago

They did not come to a stop first, then proceed.

Durka
Reply to  cornbread
5 years ago

I wouldn’t exactly call that running a red light. To me someone who’s runs a red light does so at full speed. It’s all semantics I suppose but I’m not even sure the cops would pull someone over who rolls through a red while making a right.

Ken
Reply to  Durka
5 years ago

Durka, you have to come to a ‘complete stop’, before continuing right on a red light….and only if it safe to do so. 🙂

Rusty Brown
Reply to  cornbread
5 years ago

“…ran the red light” ? Meaning they didn’t come to a complete stop before making the right turn on a red light?
My complaint about that corner concerns the cab driver who pulled out onto William northbound and crossed one lane and went directly into the far lane. Whoa! Where did you learn to drive?

Ken
Reply to  cornbread
5 years ago

We all know that there are more and more people, young and old, that have lost the concept of how to operate a motorized vehicle correctly. I blame it on many things, but do not want to take up too much space on this wonderful ‘blog’ site, to explain myself. We are talking about ‘parking infractions’!
As far as the police missing all of these ‘traffic infractions’, I wonder if it is time to dissolve our police force and have the OPP look after things? More of a cost, but maybe a better service?

Rusty Brown
Reply to  Ken
5 years ago

I concur fully. As for “…the police missing all of these ‘traffic infractions”: for years I watched drivers make a right turn on a red light out of Munroe St. from No Frills and The Beer Store to go north on Division, right under a sign that indicated “No Right Turn on Red Light”. Where the cops all this time?
They have since redesigned the intersection and right turns on red are now allowed.

Ken
Reply to  Rusty Brown
5 years ago

That reminds me of the old joke….’if you need a cop, in a hurry, look in behind the nearest Tim Hortons’……no offence intended.

Kyle
5 years ago

I guess I forgot to wear my small town costume when I was downtown and kneel to passing tourists yelling, “thank you, thank you, kind tourists”. With out stretched arms. “Thank you for your alms and Please return.”

John Draper
Reply to  Kyle
5 years ago

I have tried multiple times to “like” Kyle’s comment, to no avail, yet someone else has successfully given it a “thumbs down”. Odd!
May I, in lieu of a “like”, offer this wonderful poem by Canadian poet F.R. Scott?. It’s been a favourite of mine for many years.

TOURIST TIME
This fat woman in canvas knickers
Gapes seriously at everything.
We might be a city of the dead.
Or cave men
Instead of simple town folk.
We have nothing to show
That cannot be seen better somewhere else,
Yet for this woman the wonder does not cease.
Madam, the most extraordinary thing in this town
Is the shape of your legs.
O communication!
O rapid transit.

Albert
Reply to  John Draper
5 years ago

Uh Oh!
Bit of ‘fat shaming poetry’ here. Doesn’t even rhyme.
But since we are at it.
Q: What do men and parking spaces have in common?
A: The good ones are all gone and the free ones are too small.
Runs.

Wally Keeler
Reply to  John Draper
5 years ago

F.R. Scott was in attendance at the Montreal launch of my first book of poetry, Walking On the Greenhouse Roof. It was also attended by Louis Dudek, Hugh MacLennan, and Dr Alec Lucas, McGill U illuminati.