Waterfront “Guide” Mailed to all Cobourg Households

This week, Canada Post is delivering a brochure from the Town to all 8664 households in Cobourg.  The idea is to educate the public on the merits of the recent waterfront study and of the financial viability of the harbour and marina.  This could be called a new level of transparency but it’s also selling the results of the study.  Some of the issues described are not particularly contentious (e.g. about the East Pier) while others are likely to be election issues (e.g. harbour expansion).  There are in fact two “Guides” available – the four page version that was mailed and the 16 page version available on line.  Both have much the same information but the larger one has more detail.  Both can be downloaded from the links below.

Waterfront Guide cover
Waterfront Guide cover

The key message of the guides is that there was a comprehensive survey of the opinions of Cobourg residents and these survey results are published.  The consultants said that the engagement level of the survey was one that they “have yet to see in their careers”.  Not everyone agrees with the results but they are nevertheless of interest so a summary of the more controversial ones is provided below.

The introduction by the Mayor on the first page thanks the public for their input and points to the large number of workshops and meetings held and Gil says that “objective scoring criteria” were used.  The numbers from the survey are presented as “Fact” and although the results of the survey may be fact, not all would agree that it’s a fact that they represent the opinions of a majority of the residents of Cobourg.  But communicating with all the residents by a mailout is more than has been done on any other issue in recent memory. That has to be good.

A lot of details are provided in the guides – the summary below para-phrases the results in the interest of brevity.  Please consult the actual guides for additional detail.

Selected Statements from Guides

Tourism
Both residents and businesses think Tourism is a good idea.  A majority wanted the Town to “further develop waterfront-based recreation activities as a source of revenue generation” – this seems to be the basis for the recommendation to expand the marina.

Campground
The campground is a profit centre for the Town – over the period 2012 to 2017, it provided a contribution of “$881,096 to the Town’s general revenue to help keep taxes lower.”

Harbour
For most of the year, the harbour is greatly under utilized. Fees paid by boat owners have been subsidizing other users and taxpayers’ enjoyment of the entire harbour.

Marina
The marina consistently operates at a profit and has been subsidizing taxpayers by paying for operating and maintenance costs of the entire harbour.  A majority agreed that the Town should invest in the marina if resulting revenues could finance harbour/waterfront improvements. The economic impact [benefit to the Town] of the marina from 2010 to 2016 was estimated to be $12M.

Dredge (full guide only)
The Cobourg Dredge, known as the Marie Dressler, was purchased in 2009 for $616,000 and is used to remove sand deposits at a significantly lower cost than an outside contract. The equipment is also contracted out to generate revenue to further reduce the cost of maintaining Cobourg Harbour. A secondary benefit of the dredging operation has been the deposit of clean sand on to Victoria Park Beach, resulting in a greatly expanded beach area.

Parking (full guide only)
Waterfront parking brings in almost $170,000 annually (gross) from seven parking lots and meters. After expenses, the profits from this business unit are used to offset waterfront costs.

Food & Beverage (full guide only)
While the Town generates approximately $20,000 from the Victoria Park Canteen contract each year, this profit is more than offset by almost $50,000 in annual maintenance costs for the adjacent washrooms. However, there is significant potential for increasing the revenue from food and beverage at our waterfront.

Hopefully everyone has received and read the shorter guide delivered to their homes – if nothing else it provides a clear explanation of how the Town’s Culture and Recreation Division views the Waterfront.

It’s probably best that I remind everyone of two things: 1) that Council’s approval of the study included a requirement that major projects would include further public consultation and 2) that there will be no major projects from this study until after the next election when there will be at least 3 new faces (Gil, Forrest and Debra are not running again).

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Frenchy
5 years ago

Looks like waLly ran out of g(r)as(s).

GailR
5 years ago

Further to my previous note on a boat travel lift. I regret I did not take a photograph of the travel lift I saw at the Ivy Lea Club Marina because we were driving past and every woman knows how hard it is to get a husband to make an unscheduled stop. However, I see from their website that their boat lift is a 50 ton job. It was totally freestanding on its four wheels, as are all the ones that come up if I google 50 ton lift. They seem to be able to lift fairly hefty boats. If the Town is thinking permanent structure, maybe it could be persuaded to think mobile equipment.

John Draper
Reply to  GailR
5 years ago

I’m quite sure that the Town was thinking of a mobile lift. But it still needs a ramp to get in and out of the water and a place to store it.

GailR
Reply to  John Draper
5 years ago

There already is a ramp near the yacht club, John. Maybe it would need strengthening? And I already addressed the storage issue – the winter storage area that already exists for the yachts. Handily close to the ramp. If a 50 ton mobile boat lift with large wheels that looks highly maneuverable will serve for a large and busy marina in Ivy Lea why wouldn’t it work for Cobourg? I think the issue here is that we want to make sure that we don’t end up with additional infrastructure on the waterfront when a lift on wheels that can trundle a short distance will do the job. One reason that the existing ramp might not currently be on the agenda is that it might be seen as hampering the apparent plan to add additional moorings on the west side of the central pier despite the general unpopularity of the idea.

Bill Thompson
Reply to  GailR
5 years ago

Cobourg has a marina ,with a west harbour for mutual use by many others of the public and not a working boat yard / gated community. It should remain as such .
For a only a four month period of the year facility for a few boat owners convenience.it takes only a look west towards Toronto to see what the future of Cobourg’s waterfront harbour holds if the town’s plans are successful. to increase boat slips with a travelling boat lift.
You may have overlooked in the glossy town brochure that was publicly distributed as the true picture of the WFDP results there is not a mention of the expansion / boat lift (requiring a groyne construction in the water incidentally) nor retaining the nature aspect of the west headland/ harbour.
A delegation a few years ago (Jan 2015./16 ?) by the Willow Beach Field Naturalists for the designation of the west headland/harbour to be a nature reserve was described at the time by the mayor as a “priority” issue for council consideration.
Not a mention since however.

Albert
Reply to  Bill Thompson
5 years ago

Cobourg Harbour is a harbour and don’t feed the birds again.

Bill Thompson
Reply to  GailR
5 years ago

The town is already trying to convince the people in purchasing a mobile boat lft at the cost of around $1/2 million dollars for a twice a year usage.

manfred s
Reply to  Bill Thompson
5 years ago

kinda goes along the same path as million-dollar firetrucks and mobile command vehicles, eh?

GailR
5 years ago

One thing that was left unmentioned in the Town brochure, of course, was the issue of a mechanical boat lift. Whether the marina can prove the profitability of an investment in one is one issue. Another is that a considerable number of people thought one would be a visual blight. Were they assuming it would be a permanent structure? I certainly was. However here we are in the Gananoque area and we saw one of these things ON WHEELS. Never crossed my mind. So would it make a difference if we were told that it would be in use one week in the spring and one week in the fall, and otherwise it would be tucked away in the boat yard? Or maybe we could rent it out as we rent out the dredger. As I said, this doesn’t address the issue of the cost, but it might make a bit of a difference.

Wally Keeler
5 years ago

The Cobourg Taxpayers Association make their waterfront proposals based on the following fundamentalist belief: “Most of the citizens of Cobourg have indicated that they do not want more visitors coming to the beach” Not only does the CTA believe this, they double downed on it by printing it in bold font. Indeed, they tripled down it by underling it to make the maximum emphasis possible short of shouting in ALL CAPS. It remains their well-rooted fundamentalist belief. The CTA has presented nothing to support their silly assertion.

Whereas a highly professional organ who conducted one of the more thoroughly responded surveys in its experience, backed with transparency of their methodology, found a robust 80% of Town residents agree that Tourism is or will be important to the Town’s economy. Only a single digit 9% disagreed.

The disparity between the facts presented by the Town compared to the beliefs (non-facts) of the CTA is so wide that it speaks loudly that the CTA is out of touch with the vast majority of Cobourg residents on the issue of tourism.

So let’s head into the municipal election knowing what the CTA thinks it believes about Cobourg residents and ask the candidates whether they share that beliief. The leading political activist group in Cobourg gets an exceeding softseat from our local journalists who decline to ask the CTA how they arrived at their fundamental belief that “Most of the citizens of Cobourg have indicated that they do not want more visitors coming to the beach”.

All Cobourg taxpayers would think that our uber-sensitive local radio journalists, or cyber journalists or cable tv journalists would ask the CTA to substantiate their contention with facts instead of beliefs. Thankfully, the Town put out a brochure with FACTS to counter the FAKE NEWS proselytized by the CTA in their public missive.

perplexed
Reply to  Wally Keeler
5 years ago

Do you ever think about the Fact that the Down Town has not yet turned around
despite the Methodology & the Towns Belief that the Beach is our saviour . 10 yrs of this Nonsense and there are still not enough Tourists Downtown to support it , allow the shop owners to rejuvenate it out of their own pockets , or attract and keep new business for 12 months of the yr
There is more to Tourism and economic growth than just sticking your foot in the sand and water .
The water front is a 3 maybe 4 month operation and income operation

The Sand Castle wk end was Busy I counted at any given time between 8 and 13 Bus loads of tourists Dropped off and Picked up at the beach but then you have to be at the Beach to see whats actually happening .
The future Round about Idea at the foot of Division would be a disaster both for walkers , bicyles
and certainly larger vehicles ie. busses but making the Esplanade a 1 way st to the west from Division.
would be a good and safer idea and the loop would then take the tourist traffic back up through
the main part of town and King st to all those stores .

sandpiper
5 years ago

They Paint a Pretty Picture
Hope fully and I truly believe every one of the Tax Paying Resident in Cobourg is in favour of Good Governance , Fiscal Responsibility and Accountability from all divisions of our Local Govt.
Would this then suggest that we are all supporters of a CTA association of one sort or another .

With out a group such as the CTA who would ask these concerning questions and bring issues to light
that would other wise go unchecked or Questioned . Who else can put in the kind of time it requires
and withstand the Ritiquel and CTA type bashing that goes on .
You can’t get concerns before the public any more , We don’t have a Local New Paper per say and the
investigative reporting is certainly lacking / do we even have investigative reporters for that matter ???

This town as Ken Struass suggests throws out $$ numbers to suit their purposes and justify their agenda
constantly, just check into the Marina articles over the last 2-3 yrs . To say it constantly operates at a profit
is well ???? suspect Show Me that $ 12 . Million worth of economic impact Please .

I am from Cobourg not a relocate .

Walter L. Luedtke
5 years ago

After the CTA supporters’ failure to field serious candidates from their own ranks or interest our municipal candidates in an All-Candidates Meeting, a new strategy is becoming clear.
Create a tsunami of muddy waters on the waterfront.

Bill Thompson
Reply to  Walter L. Luedtke
5 years ago

How many of the meetings (council/Waterfront Development Plan ) did you attend to form your opinion and get the picture first hand instead of relying on the printed town brochure or is your default being the town decisions are always correct and anyone who differs is “right wing”.?
I think you’ve made it patently clear on this blog what your stance is re the town ,so credibilty is non existent..
The CTA fixation you have is unusual incidentally but that’s not news to anyone on this blog.

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Bill Thompson
5 years ago

Really?! You want to get that petty? Well, in that case, how many years have you experienced Cobourg’s waterfront? All your life? Or just a few years.

Bill Thompson
Reply to  Wally Keeler
5 years ago

You may want to let the other Wally answer my question to him unless you also speak for him..
Incidentally,how many of those meetings did you attend to acquire first hand information.?

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Bill Thompson
5 years ago

I need neither your permission, Billy nor that other Wally’s permission to answer anyone’s question. Really, how petty can you get? Walter will answer the question if he sees fit, irrelevant to any remarks I may additionally make.

Bill Thompson
Reply to  Wally Keeler
5 years ago

And my own question to you re your meeting attendance?

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Bill Thompson
5 years ago

I’d love to answer your petty question but I seemed to have lost count of the number of times I attended AND participated.

And my question to you is, do you believe that “Most of the citizens of Cobourg have indicated that they do not want more visitors coming to the beach“?

Bill Thompson
Reply to  Wally Keeler
5 years ago

Strange how we missed each other at the CCC meetings in one room isn’t it ?

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Bill Thompson
5 years ago

Indeed it is strange. Life is like that!

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Bill Thompson
5 years ago

And my question to you: “how many years have you experienced Cobourg’s waterfront? All your life? Or just a few years.

Bill Thompson
Reply to  Wally Keeler
5 years ago

Relevancy ?

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Bill Thompson
5 years ago

And my question to you is, do you believe that “Most of the citizens of Cobourg have indicated that they do not want more visitors coming to the beach“?

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Walter L. Luedtke
5 years ago

Get a load of this whopper from the CTA, expressed in its anti-Waterpark missive; “Most of the citizens of Cobourg have indicated that they do not want more visitors coming to the beach” The CTA also put that assertion in bold typeface and underlined it to boot, just to impress with the weight of that FAKE NEWS.

Here is the FACT: 80% of Cobourg residents consider tourists a benefit, only a miserable 9% disagree.

Walter L. Luedtke
Reply to  Wally Keeler
5 years ago

Hahaha Wally.
The CTA came to that conclusion after forty-two (42) of mostly their own members placed little dots on question sheets.
These folks always speak for THE PEOPLE.

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Walter L. Luedtke
5 years ago

42? Out of a population of 18,000+. Ha ha ha. Well let’s be generous, 42 out of 2,000 who had participated in the survey. We could make a few bucks this election cycle by selling t-shirts that say: Not a 9 percenter We’d have 80% of the population to draw on.

Frenchy
Reply to  Wally Keeler
5 years ago

Wouldn’t you have 80% of those who responded to that survey?
See how numbers can get skewed any way you want to present them?
You haven’t got the b_lls to start your own business.

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Frenchy
5 years ago

Regardless of the BS spewed out against Tourists, you have never presented a single fact to support the contention that Most of the citizens of Cobourg have indicated that they do not want more visitors coming to the beach

Frenchy
Reply to  Wally Keeler
5 years ago

Why should I present anything to support that statement? I didn’t make that statement.
Where have I ever posted that I’m against tourism or tourists? You just make that fake stuff up and keep repeating it here hoping someone starts believing it. Show me where I said anything like that or shut up.

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Frenchy
5 years ago

“You haven’t got the b_lls to start your own business.”

Oh but I do and I have. YOU skew numbers, not the Town.

Frenchy
Reply to  Wally Keeler
5 years ago

You don’t, and a high school newspaper doesn’t cut it.

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Frenchy
5 years ago

YOU skew numbers, not the Town. Crybaby.

Reply to  Wally Keeler
5 years ago

Given that the current population of Cobourg is just under 20,000 people, that would mean that approximately 16,000 people would “consider tourists a benefit”? Hmmmm, I could be wrong, but I thought the resident responses came in at 2,000. Although 2,000 respondents is considered a good response rate, I would want to hear the thoughts from the other 18,000 people before I believe that “80% of Cobourg residents consider tourists a benefit”. A little misleading, in my opinion. Also, the people who have more of an interest in tourism would probably be more eager to complete the survey.

Gil B
Reply to  Walter L. Luedtke
5 years ago

Walter this is a late response as I don’t frequently read the blog because of all the negativity (you and Wally excepted). Three registered candidates are known frequenters of the CTA directors and one of them has their nomination papers signed by all the known self appointed directors. Another candidate also has their nomination papers signed by the known directors, so they appear to have influenced a few people.

Bill Thompson
Reply to  Gil B
5 years ago

So much “Negativity” ….as in disagreement with the same old same old for too long.of not being listened to.
People just may have finally reached their limit and speaking up for the first time… just as in the provincial election.
Let’s see what October brings….
Interesting to read the remarks re some new candidates for council from a lame duck mayor still serving in office …….
Speaks volumes.re the state of confidentiality of official documentation….and by the top town official ! .

manfred s
Reply to  Bill Thompson
5 years ago

c’mon now Bill, be gentle. Nevertheless, the documents you refer to are likely the nomination papers and it seems that, in the interest of transparency, those should be public rather than confidential anyway. But, your overall point is an important one.

Walter L. Luedtke
Reply to  Bill Thompson
5 years ago

Hahaha!
I am starting to catch on secrecy and confidentiality for the CTA, transparency for everyone else.
Figures!

Ken Strauss
Reply to  Gil B
5 years ago

Are nomination papers available to the public for inspection? If so, where?

manfred s
Reply to  Ken Strauss
5 years ago

call the Clerk’s office and ask them, I’m pretty sure they would know

Walter L. Luedtke
Reply to  Ken Strauss
5 years ago

It’s all a big conspiracy Mr. Strauss.
And how is it going with replacing Council and Staff after the next election?
Can you give us a progress report.
Or is that secret.

Frenchy
Reply to  Gil B
5 years ago

I call BS on you not reading this blog on a regular basis. I’ll bet you a beer that every current council member reads this blog regularly as well as some of the new wannabes.

manfred s
Reply to  Frenchy
5 years ago

now what makes you think that, Frenchy? Do you have any particular reason to be so skeptical?

Frenchy
Reply to  manfred s
5 years ago

Not skeptical, practical.
First hand news that several read it daily. Betting that if some do, they all do. Why wouldn’t they? Considering the lack of news outlets in Cobourg, you gotta believe that they are tuned in here trying to get a pulse on the goings on and looking to see their name in print.

manfred s
Reply to  Frenchy
5 years ago

… uhhh. .. I was being a bit facetious, Frenchy. Sorry ’bout that. Nevertheless, I’m as convinced as you, of the likelyhood that they ALL keep a keen eye on the goings on here, whether they admit it or not.

Frenchy
Reply to  manfred s
5 years ago

“whether they admit it or not.”
Heh, heh, heh…

Walter L. Luedtke
Reply to  Gil B
5 years ago

Would thank you Gil.
That is interesting to know.
So the CTA directors confine their political activity to signing other candidates nomination papers.
Chuckles

Frenchy
Reply to  Gil B
5 years ago

See Walter, it pays to be a Pollyanna Cheerleader. You and your pal wAlly get gold stars from the mayor.
Cute.

Frenchy
Reply to  Gil B
5 years ago

Few questions for you Gil,
• Are these nomination papers open to the public for all to see?
• Do you have to ask for them or just stroll in and browse around?
• Were you just casually browsing through 275 reference papers for something to do, or were you looking for something specifically linking any of the candidates to the CTA when you were rooting through them?
• If so, why?

Dubious
Reply to  Frenchy
5 years ago

What does a lame duck do other than root around?

Greg H
Reply to  Dubious
5 years ago

This obsession with the CTA is beginning to seem like MCCarthyism. Are we guilty because of association if we know a member?

Walter L. Luedtke
Reply to  Greg H
5 years ago

All sort of has to do with transparency and openness in the municipal political process!
Just like one should know who is backing which candidate.
Landlords, developers, builders and yes …the CTA.

manfred s
Reply to  Walter L. Luedtke
5 years ago

Walter, sometimes I think that the CTA’s choice of name, while it could well be intentional, is the sticking point. I also wonder if the push-back we see here would all but disappear if they called themselves something less grandiose, perhaps something along the lines of ‘Concerned Citizens of Cobourg’ or ‘Coalition of Concerned Taxpayers’, you get the idea. The name should not imply that they represent all the Taxpayers’ of Cobourg, nor that they speak for the general public. I think that apparent intent rankles a number of people and they want the CTA to know it and stop doing so. I think they play an important part in Cobourg’ political arena and should continue what they do, just not pretend that they are more than what they actually are, a group of concerned private citizens without any sort of mandate.

Walter L. Luedtke
Reply to  manfred s
5 years ago

Manfred. my learned friend, allow me to disagree.
When a political action group is formed to push an ideological agenda, it is a different kettle of fish from the Friends of Victoria Hall or the Willow Beach Field Naturalists.
When, in this blog, the anonymous supporters of this group direct a constant stream of innuendo, suspicion, insults, half truths and outright lies at Council and Staff, it is not just a matter of the name.
When a director of this group, Mr. Strauss, calls for replacing Council AND Staff in the coming election, they are more than just ‘concerned citizens’ who want to keep taxes at a reasonable level.
They poison Cobourg’s political climate and that worries me.
Good night, my friend.

manfred s
Reply to  Walter L. Luedtke
5 years ago

Walter, disagreement is what generates good discussions and I have no problem with that. Nevertheless, i still think all of the activities of the CTA which you find objectionable would seem far less irritating and perhaps even easier to dismiss if they were coming from one or more disgruntled individual. Lies and inuendo are nothing new here, believe me, I know first hand of that, and most often, little is made of it. Good people know the difference between reality and fantasy so hopefully your worries only seem heavier than they actually are. and yes, a good night and worry-free sleep to you as well, my friend.

Frenchy
Reply to  Walter L. Luedtke
5 years ago

a constant stream of innuendo, suspicion, insults, half truths

Something like what your pal walLy does. Relentlessly. Constantly. Over and over and over and over again?
Or even like your hero Gil B did with his little story about Manfred S?

Dubious
Reply to  Walter L. Luedtke
5 years ago

Why do you feel that reverence for His Worship and His minions is required to not “poison Cobourg’s political climate”?

Bill Thompson
Reply to  manfred s
5 years ago

A name is a name is a name…..
It is a group’s mandate that is important .Does anyone know the mandates of the Cobourg Taxpayer’s Association, Canadian Taxpayer’s Association, Hamiton Taxpayers Association ,Toronto Taxpayers etc ?
Those members of the public who use their personal time and efforts with no desire of compensation ,only answers re public concerns from their elected officials should be commended instead of attacked by those who don’t put any effort forward except to snipe from behind their computers using information that just may / may not be accurate but a concern for some.
Those in disagreement with such associations infer that it is politically inspired which couldn’t be further from the truth. What personal gain is derived by addressing issues by concerned members of the public to get response from their town council.
The alternative to wait every four years to possibly have an influence on major decisions being made reflects a “sheeple” mentality. which causes the public apathy which has taken over to such a degree today.

No CTA members are running for office which appears to bother Walter for some reason or other the most . Why?
A great alternative for those who have strong opposition to the CTA would be to suggest a meeting with them, meet the so called “anonymous” members and have a discussion face to face..
Sitting behind a computer and verbally jousting doesn’t solve anything. Have any written a letter to the CTA re their grievances or is it just so mich easier to constantly complain on this blog? I would say the latter .
Before John Draper’s blog came along how did these same people voice their opinions …never or every four years
Lack of public involvement/participation by so many who can’t be bothered to get involved yet choose to snipe ar those who do and is a cop out.responsible for today’s apathy.
As Wally once stated (paraphrase) The arrows on this site don’t necessarily indicate agreement/disagreement with a poster’s comments on a subject , rather a like/dislike of the individual who is posting.
That defeats the whole purpose of this blog that John Draper works so hard towards providing unbiased information.

Miriam Mutton
5 years ago

I will say that at first I found the brochure an unusual mailing during an official election period. However, it prompts two related thoughts unrelated to the upcoming municipal election.

First, every citizen of Cobourg is a potential ambassador for their community. Many tourists, including me when I have opportunity to travel, like to find out is special about the place they visit. A mass mailing like this, focusing on interesting facts about a popular destination in the community could a good way to share and inform the community’s stories. For example, during my visit downtown today for various errands I walked passed a couple reading the plaque at the feet of Introibo ad Altare Dei, (yes, I had to look up information on the Cobourg Historical Society web site to get my facts straight), the business man bronze statue on King Street. I spoke to the couple, who I did not know, and said there are other copies of this public art work around the world (Toronto, Philadelphia, Italy). As a citizen I was proud to share the story of this important work of art with visitors. At the bank, customer service at its best. A bilingual teller switching effortlessly to french for a customer. Later, I visited Millstone Bakery for bread and a treat (a chocolate hazelnut butter tart with an iced coffee) and sat at their sidewalk bistro table. A group of children were playing in the park next door, some in the pond. When I strolled through the park to take pictures of the flags and beautiful public flower displays, I was not the only person there doing the same thing. And other people walked by, speaking a language I did not understand. Residents or visitors, it does not matter … they were enjoying our public spaces. My main point, free accessible beautiful things which are part of our community’s story do not need all to be programmed in preference of user groups which keeps other users out.

My second point, the cover photo of the waterfront brochure. One of my favourite places to visit is the lighthouse. But, to do so is illegal these days. How ironic. Perhaps, waterfront improvements will address the simple joys as a priority.

Bill Thompson
Reply to  Miriam Mutton
5 years ago

A tourist brochure is one thing but a glossy VoteCobourg.ca .brochure with questionable statistics that would be meaningless to “tourists” is another.
A brochure stating the history or places of intetest is quite different from issues /percentages on cobourg waterfront plans as this brochure is about.
Timing is very important and as the election isn’t until October and this is August ,the timing is just a coincidence.and it wasn’t intended to be associated with VoteCobourg.ca ?
Who vetted /approved the final product for correctness for public dissemination?

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Bill Thompson
5 years ago

All petty points. Your comments about tourists are more than questionable, they are all too often ludicrous, especially when you characterize town employees in such a sinister manner with your talk of conspiracy coincidences and vetting for any purpose other than election maneuvering. Remove the inherent and persistent negativity and the Waterfront Brochure was printed and distributed to the entire Town so that residents can be provided with the facts, a sort of inoculation against those who contaminate the public domain with fabrications and assertions that Cobourg residents do not want tourists. Such ludicrous assertions all too often comes from those whose experience of Victoria Park is pathetically shallow. I am glad the Town made and distributed the brochure for the sake of Cobourg citizens.

The unassailable fact remains that the majority of Cobourg citizens want tourists. All the conspiracy theories, moans and groans, and denial doesn’t change that historical fact.

Greg H
5 years ago

I find the “Waterfront Guide” to be a misleading and unnecessary communication from the Town of Cobourg.

The report is full of FACTS. But most of these FACTS (the report uses capital letters, somewhat like US President Trump) are really a re-statement of previously available material put into a more favourable light. For instance:

“FACT. The marina consistently operates at a profit and has been subsidizing taxpayers by paying for operating and maintenance costs of the entire harbour.”

What this fails to acknowledge is that when the first proposal for a town-funded boat lift was presented there were no separate accounts kept for the marina, but it was said to be “break even”. Additionally it was claimed the town had to spend money for a boat lift “to make the marina profitable”. In my career as an industrial loans officer I often received proposals stating that business were making a loss, but that more expenditures would magically increase revenues. Unfortunately my colleagues had never actually seen this magic happen.

The Cobourg Blog reports on the July 3rd 2018 Council meeting as follows:
“Both public presenters and Councillors felt that the study was generally deemed to make good recommendations with the exception of expansion of boat slips into the West Harbour and buying a Travel Lift. Both these issues generated a lot of disagreement.”

Yet none of this disagreement is revealed in the “Waterfront Guide”. The guide suggests that there is unlimited popular and council support. A report such as this, with a foreword from a Mayor who is not standing for election, can only be seen as an unfortunate attempt to mislead voters.

Old Sailor
Reply to  Greg H
5 years ago

The Waterfront Guide has 6 years of historical financial data which means that separate accounts have been kept for Marina and for the Campground. Nothing in the Guide looks misleading to me. A marina expansion or the acquisition of a boat lift need to be approved by a future council. Which is reasonable.

Ken Strauss
Reply to  Old Sailor
5 years ago

Other than the slanted presentation of the survey results, the marina finance numbers are a prime example of misleading material. Based on the “facts” presented in the Guide, what is the unallocated balance in the Marina Reserve Fund? How does this amount compare to the balance mentioned by Mr. Hustwick in his presentation to Council?

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Ken Strauss
5 years ago

…slanted presentation of the survey results,”

It was an accurate presentation of the fact that the majority of Cobourg citizens want tourists to come to Cobourg. You can stuff your head with denials, but that is a fact of Cobourg life. Get used to it because it ain’t gonna change. You have a shallow understanding of Cobourg citizens insofar as tourists and Victoria Park are concerned.

FACT: 80% of Cobourg residents agreed that Tourism is or will be important to the Town’s economy. A measly 9% disagree. Those numbers will not change because your arguments carry little or no weight to turn that 9% into double digits, say 10%. Your arguments are nothing more than pissing against the wind.

Frenchy
Reply to  Wally Keeler
5 years ago

Wally, I think the questions poised were “what is the unallocated balance in the Marina Reserve Fund? How does this amount compare to the balance mentioned by Mr. Hustwick in his presentation to Council?”

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Frenchy
5 years ago

So go ahead and answer them if it’s important to you. I’m not interested in that.

Bill Thompson
5 years ago

“The introduction by the Mayor on the first page thanks the public
for their input and points to the large number of workshops and meetings held and Gil says that “objective scoring criteria” were used. ”
If that is the case ,how is it that the WaterPark (believe #54 out of # 82 in priority ) was put to the forefront and passed through without the council even seeing the final Plan …..and the mayor’s vote broke the tied councillor vote to approve it ?
Not properly thought out in haste …..no lifeguards to staff it and a strange silence about it…….and now put off for the new council ..
Where would the public find out what the production/ mailing costs of over 8,000 of these brochures cost the taxpayers of Cobourg when the same information is on the town website ?

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Bill Thompson
5 years ago

Because not ALL Cobourg residents have the technology to access the town website. Are you suggesting that those without the money for their home technology nor without experience with digital technology, should not be provided with the same information?

Bill Thompson commented, “Where would the public find out what the production/ mailing costs of over 8,000 of these brochures cost the taxpayers of Cobourg when the same information is on the town website ?

If the same “information is on the town website” then why would you ask in the same sentence, “Where would the public find out what the production/ mailing costs …” Talk about incoherence!

Bill Thompson
Reply to  Wally Keeler
5 years ago

Cost to taxpayers with brochures…none on website…
Simple …

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Bill Thompson
5 years ago

You said, “… the same information is on the town website”

So which way is it going to be? “none on the website” or “is on the town website.”

Bill Thompson
Reply to  Wally Keeler
5 years ago

“None”referred to no cost on website vice a cost of brochures.
Again …easy .simple statement

Frenchy
Reply to  Bill Thompson
5 years ago

I got it and I have poor reading and comprehension skills.

Bill Thompson
Reply to  Wally Keeler
5 years ago

Telephone maybe ……friends etc …?

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Bill Thompson
5 years ago

Pathetic. Just like in olden days, reliable, and what would the costs be to have a staff pool to telephone all Cobourg households? What a ludicrous suggestion. The brochure is worth every penny because it informs the Cobourg public to build up their immunity to the coming electoral onslaught of anti-tourist talk from a teeny tiny minority, a singe digit dumpster of 9%. .

Bill Thompson
Reply to  Wally Keeler
5 years ago

Another difficult English to English translation required !

“What would the costs be of a staff pool to telephone all Cobourg households “?!? staff pool?

No …..Friends telephoning friends to talk to each other as they do and discussing the waterfront etc during ordinary conversation …

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Bill Thompson
5 years ago

Exceedingly unreliable, painfully time-consuming, all the hallmarks of cheap communication, which is the winning point for you. The Town’s brochure contains the unassailable fact that 80% of Cobourg residents believe tourists are a benefit to the Town. It’s enough to burst the bubble of those who foolishly believe in the FAKE NEWS that “Most of the citizens of Cobourg have indicated that they do not want more visitors coming to the beach” If the members of the CTA believe that, then they are sorely out of touch with the majority of Cobourg residents.

Wally Keeler
5 years ago

There is one very important fact missing from all of these discussions, which are usually economic boredumbs. Thousands and thousands of Cobourg residents, children and youths, enjoyed all of the food, fun and frolic that comes and goes all too briefly compacted into two months in Victoria Park. It has always been so since my great grandfather’s day, and will continue to be so into the future.

It was a pleasure and an honour to have recited two poems at Kelly’s Homelike Inn last Saturday night. There was a commemoration of Moe Ewart, a Cobourg boy who grew up in our downtown hood. In the heady hippie days, he wrote songs and performed them. Sometimes during that Summer of Love at midnight or later, the hippies gathered in Victoria Park to frolic, and Moe took to the bandshell stage and performed. The moment his creative career was taking off, he became afflicted with a mental disability. He was not forgottten by the baby boomer youth of Cobourg. They flocked to his commemoration at St Andrew’s Church. Moe made his first performannces in Cobourg, at the basement ‘coffee shop’ in the basement of St Peter’s, at the Beach Hut in Port Hope, and Cobourg Bandshell, etc. Networking took him to Toronto.

All of those baby boomer buds had a common experience to draw on — Victoria Park.

Growing up in a small town with a premier park, a downtown, a harbour and natural beach is priceless. It is the place where we grew up. It was the place we could be free range children and free range youth. In the summer it was a place of fun, frolic and mischief. Victoria Park was the place where youth meet after dark to plan the rest of their night. Victoria Park is where boys met girls and romance blossomed and crashed or sometimes endured. Life and love in Victoria Park. The Park is Cobourg’s greatest educational institute, where young people get their first kiss, first drink, first toke, first whatever.

This is why I read the following poem at Kelly’s Homelike Inn and earned a hearty applause but sold a bunch of my poetry. This is an experience that Ken Strauss, Bill Thompson, and the other few whiney parachutes can never know, focussing instead on $ $ $$$$$ only. Sad.

Poem in next comment.

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Wally Keeler
5 years ago

Victoria Park Montage, 1968

I’m here,
sitting on a bench,
facing Rochester
wondering where that old man is
I saw here late last year
the one with ragged pockets
containing tales of lint and dust

Fog stealths up the beach

The cacophony of kids
tumbling into each other
bounce off foamfested waves into trees
like a happy plague of bees

Hey Bobby: Bobby!

Mom! Mom! Billy just…

Mom! Mom!
Look at me mom!
MOM!!! LOOK!!!

The fog was as harmless as Sandburg said
I should have remembered – kitten feet.

From the waterworks to the coal-coated piers,
like beads on a necklace,
lovers stroll the shoreline
a romantic movie montage
their eyes happy as laughter
from teetering children
tottering on the edge of exhilaration

Then there’s the multicolorfulism
of groovy hippies,
s t o n e d,
s c a tt e red
like autumn leaves loitering
on a green pond of lawn.

The wind is perched
waiting in the trees to ambush unaware children
with random breezes.

The lighthouse prophet
draped in a toga of white-washed metal
weaves waves of worship and wind
and gulls on a crest of gust

Along the shore
waves curl around splinters of sun
casting them before the feet of sandaled lovers
and frolicsome free rangers.

Deborah OConnor
Reply to  Wally Keeler
5 years ago

Thanks for the memories, Wally. I had de-camped to Vancouver for 1968, where I had my glory days in Sanley Park, but I was back for summer 1969 and found the local scene similar, but better because all my friends were here too. Over the years I’ve lived in various cities from one end of Canada to the other, but I’ve never found any to equal the sheer joy that Cobourg always brings to us former happy hippies who morphed into old-timers for this new millenium. Peace and Love, baby, every time.

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Deborah OConnor
5 years ago

As you may well recall, there was a small group of grumps and groaners complaining about the “unwashed” hippies throwing ‘narcotic parties’ (passing a joint) in the park, sometimes sleeping there overnight, or setting a small bonfire on the beach. Oh the horror, the horror. So one night, Foster Russell, the editor/publisher of the Cobourg Sentinel Star road his car to Victoria Park and noted a handful of hippies on the beach with a bonfire. He returned the next morning to find the hippies gone, and all of their debris in the trash bin nearby. They were just Canadian young people discovering their country, hitch-hiking back and forth. The older generation was screwed up with Reefer Madness mentality, that pot will lead to heroin injections, and other fanciful slanders. So the narcs from the Peterborough detachment often occupied the upper office of the Federal Building overlooking the Park to survey on the hippies. The local Post Office even posted a watch list of particular Cobourg residents who were suspected pot smokers.

Victoria Park hosted the artistic activities of Brian Liboiron, another hippie creative that lost himself to mental disease. And piano impressario, Bill (Bat) Sills who was lost all too early in his life. These creative individuals enjoyed Victoria Park to the hilt. Finally, take a look in Refraction, an annual anthology of poetry written by local youth from 1968-72. Note the names of those Cobourg youths who went on to add wealth to our community.

All of those people were scorned and denigrated by the white-glove stiff-backs of the day. A new generation of those people continue to moan and groan, and for the most part, elderly. Many of the grumps never grew up in Victoria Park as a free range child nor free range youth in a parent-free zone and consequently, they are unable to plumb the depth of Cobourg culture regarding Victoria Park.

Victoria Park is a venue for the imagination. Every park bench is a departure lounge to the imagine nation. Victoria Park is a playground, not just a business.

Walter L. Luedtke
5 years ago

Smiles
Congratulations to Council and Staff and the excellent team of consultants from Thinc Design.
Now of course, we shall hear the CTA chorus with charges of bias, misrepresentation, fraud, electioneering, waste of taxpayers’ money etc etc. Nothing new here.
But it is good to see Ken Strauss, CTA director and aka Dubious (?), re-emerging into the light of day.
Now where were had you gone Mr. Strauss, when a desperate Cobourg turned its pleading eyes to you as a candidate?
And btw. I was severely chastised when I called the CTA “far right”. The CTA patterns itself in all things after the Canadian Taxpayers Federation, including its website design.
Here is a photo of Melissa Mathieson, a director of the CTF: http://www.c2cjournal.ca/2015/08/confessions-of-a-failed-candidate/
She won the endorsement of the National Firearms Association.

Ken Strauss
Reply to  Walter L. Luedtke
5 years ago

So now advocating for responsible government that listens to the people is “far right”? God help us!

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Ken Strauss
5 years ago

Responsible govt delivered a fact-based brochure to all Cobourg households, regardless whether they are right, far right, left, or far left. The brochure illuminated the FACT that 80% of Cobourg residents consider tourists desirable for the Town. Only an unpleasant 9% disagree. 80% compared to 9% is a wide disparity, that the you continually fail to bridge. The brochure with its facts are in the hands of Cobourg residents so that when they see the baseless arguments that you and a handful of other teeny tiny minority loudmouths that you spew out. How does it feel to be a single digit malcontent on this issue.

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Walter L. Luedtke
5 years ago

And btw. I was severely chastised when I called the CTA “far right”.

The CTA had nothing to do with your chastisement. You were chastised for political mediocrity. Terms such as ‘far right’, ‘extreme left’ ‘centrist right’ etc etc are nothing more than cesspools of ambiguity with definitions as flexible as a wet noodle. Those terms are the common coin of political mediocrity.

You don’t get to cavalierly wave your hand dismissively with such a shallow mediocre term that has little meaning and is the lazy person’s ‘argument’ because it relieves them of making a reasoned argument; just dismiss it as ‘far right’ or ‘far left’ I have no doubt that some individuals regard the Northumberland Poverty organization as ‘far left’. These terms are lazythink, and really really mediocre, offensively mediocre.

Old Sailor
5 years ago

Nice to see disclosed the fact that the boaters’ fees cover their share of harbour expenses plus they “subsidize other users and taxpayers’ enjoyment of the entire harbour”. And there is still a residual profit left to contribute to marina capital expenditures.

The financial reporting aspect of the mailing to residents deserves a “luff of the jib”.

Bill Thompson
Reply to  Old Sailor
5 years ago

“Nice to see” that the same biased information is on the town website for public knowledge but a glossy version of the same information printed on the VoteCobourg.ca brochure to each resident of Cobourg is out and out blatant electioneering and at what cost to the public?
Some accidental “back end error” by the town…..
How about offering some swamp land in Florida for sale at the same time ?
.”You can fool some of the people all of the time, all of the people some of the time,but you can’t fool all of the people all of the time “

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Bill Thompson
5 years ago

“biased information” is Mr Thompson’s specialty. His argument is cliche-ridden and factless. Really! “swamp land in Florida” and the wearisome “fool” cliche. These are facts?

Mr Thomson claims the brochure is “blatant electioneering”. That is a crock accusation. Which politician benefits from the brochure? The mayor ain’t running again so the brochure wasn’t done for his re-election, nor for the re-election of other councillors. Nor was it done on the behest of the newly running candidates.

I much prefer the factual bias of the brochure than Mr Thompson’s ludicrously cliche-ridden factless bias.

Bill Thompson
Reply to  Wally Keeler
5 years ago

Wally
I think you may want to hear what the new candidates stance is regarding the boat lift/marina expansion before you claim my “biased information” comment.
The unelected CAO and staff are definitely not neutral so let’s just wait and see shall we.?

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Bill Thompson
5 years ago

You may also wait until the facts are in before you make a presumptuous biased comment in the first place.

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Bill Thompson
5 years ago

It’s not a lie Walter; it’s fake news. They tried to persuade our elected representatives with fake news. No wonder the Town had to send a brochure to every Cobourg household when some of their members spread the fake news that Cobourg residents don’t want tourists. Ken Strauss is a leading purveyor of this sort of fake news. 80% of Cobourg residents thinks the arguments put forth by Mr Strauss concerning tourists is nothing more than unsubstantiated petty piffle. The Town took action to protect their citizens from this kind of poison by providing them with a few salient facts concerning tourists.

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Bill Thompson
5 years ago

You may recall the recent CTA missive opposing the waterpark in which they declared in bold underlined font; “Most of the citizens of Cobourg have indicated that they do not want more visitors coming to the beach.”

That is a bald-faced fabrication; FAKE NEWS. It is a fact that 80% of Cobourg residents think that visitors are beneficial to Cobourg and only a meagre 9% disagree. Is it safe to surmise that the majority of CTA members foolishly believe similarly to the 9%?

Wally Keeler
5 years ago

“The numbers from the survey are presented as “Fact” and although the results of the survey may be fact, not all would agree that it’s a fact that they represent the opinions of a majority of the residents of Cobourg.”

not all would agree’ This is a meaningless assertion. The same could be said that not all would agree that the earth is a sphere, or any other assertion. Unanimity is not required.

The surveys received responses in excess of 2,000 people, a fact that the consultants with their wide experience said, “… the engagement level was one they ‘have yet to see in their careers’”.

The level of participation by Cobourg residents is certainly indicative of the heart and soul of Cobourg residents in their relationship with the waterfront. It is not something to dismiss.

Eighty percent of Cobourg residents agreed that tourism is or will be important to the Town’s economy. A meagre nine percent disagreed. The disparity is wide enough to drive a caravan full of politicians through. FACT: the majority of Cobourg residents want tourists.

Seventy-seven percent of business agreed that tourism is or will be important to the Town’s economy. A meagre single digit, seven percent, disagree. Politicians can drive a 12 lane highway thru that disparity.

Forty-six percent of businesses stated that they depend on or benefit from tourists. The miserable malcontents who want to diminish or stop tourism, also want to sabotage and damage 46% of Cobourg’s businesses.

The facts as presented quite clearly and proportionately represent “the opinions of a majority of the residents of Cobourg.” Your spin on the facts is sadly sluggish and of minimal merit.

Ken Strauss
Reply to  Wally Keeler
5 years ago

The Waterfront Guide is a great example of how one can deduce different conclusions from “facts” depending on how they are presented. Consider:

Only 31 of the 900 Cobourg businesses surveyed reported that “We benefit from additional trade that is generated by tourists/visitors to Cobourg” and only 6 said that “The sustainability of our business depends on trade generated by tourists/visitors to Cobourg.”

Considering the significant effort that the Town puts into sponsoring tourist events the returns are minimal. Only 21 of 900 Cobourg businesses surveyed reported any benefit from the Waterfront Festival and 17 of the 21 received benefits of less than $5000. For the Highland Games only 20 businesses reported any benefit and 17 of the 20 received less than $1000 of benefit. Tourism was greatly reduced this last year due to high lake levels but only 13 of the 900 business survey recipients saw a decrease in business.

Given these survey results it is ludicrous to claim that tourism is important. For a town that spends many thousands every year to attract tourists one must question the value of the spending!

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Ken Strauss
5 years ago

The 900 businesses include lawyer offices, jewellers, furniture sales, mortgages, loans, auto dealerships, lumber yards, etc etc etc. No one expects tourists to contribute anything to those multitude of businesses. The 900 figure has no other purpose than to dilute your argument. The figures you provide are myopic.

So 31 businesses reported benefits. Absolutely appalling. Free enterprise. It is up to business to capitalize on tourists. The income from tourists is not just for businesses. Tourists bring in all of the parking revenue, trailer park revenue, canteen revenue, marina revenue, etc etc, so how about including that in your calculations. Yes Cobourg spends thousands and the comebback includes everything you deliberately omitted. The facts that you spin to launder your pathetic agenda that tourism fails Cobourg is wanting.

Perhaps Dubious would like to enter the discussion to support your myopic view.

Bill Thompson
Reply to  Wally Keeler
5 years ago

Let’s simplify the equation…..How many “tourists” visit Cobourg during the summer ?
The harbour is used for four months approximately.
Other than Marie Dressler I can’t think of any cultural/historical
attraction that would draw real tourists.here.
Thousands of visitors come here for sure …….but what is the percentage that even leave the beach/park to browse/shop etc.So we’re looking at at another three/four months and they come fully equipped for the day.
I would surmise that the figure would be so low and not of any significance to justify the continual town outgoing expenditure to attract “tourists” unless of course Parking Fees can be counted as the town’s major tourist income
Wayfinding signs etc to the town and in a town that the whole high street can be walked in a short period of time..
Proper perspective needs to be applied …Can we hope for that with a new council ? Fingers crossed .

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Bill Thompson
5 years ago

Thousands of visitors come here for sure …….but what is the percentage that even leave the beach/park to browse/shop etc.”

The Town a few months ago released a study indicating that during the months of July and August the retail district of King Street experienced a 20,000 increase of pedestrians. The Town delivered them to King Street and it is up to each individual retailer to entice them inside for a sale. Would you prefer that zero percentage visit the main street? Would you prefer to work towards increasing the percentage of visitors to King Street? What proposal to you have?

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Bill Thompson
5 years ago

“Other than Marie Dressler I can’t think of any cultural/historical attraction that would draw real tourists.here.”

What is a “real tourist”? Really!? Yur gonna make that argument? That kind of argument is all too often expressed by condescending snobs.

So I guess that the thousands of tourists that come to Cobourg are NOT REAL TOURISTS. If they are not real tourists, then what are they? Please explain to your fellow Cobourg residents.

Frenchy
Reply to  Wally Keeler
5 years ago

Maybe a “Real Tourist” is something like a “Real Cobourger”.
Those of us who have lived here for 10-20-30-40 years needn’t express our opinions because we aren’t “born residents”.
That kind of argument is all too often expressed by condescending snobs.

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Frenchy
5 years ago

Anybody can express their opinions regardless of their years in Cobourg. The fact that I was born here 71 years ago gives me a much deeper understanding of Victoria Park issues. I lived it for 70+ years whether you like it or not, and I will continue to make arguments based on my 70+ experience of Cobourg. It provides me with a wide experience of thousands of Cobourgers over the years. I know them very very well. And I know they overwhelmingly (80%) want tourists, whereas a mere 9% don’t. I notice on this blog that the majority of anti-tourist mouths are parachutes that think they know better what the residents of Cobourg want. You, Bill Thompson, Ken Strauss are the 9% armed with fake facts.

Frenchy
Reply to  Wally Keeler
5 years ago

Where did you read that I was against tourism? What fake facts have I stated?
Proof please, before you start spitting out false allegations.

Bill Thompson
Reply to  Wally Keeler
5 years ago

Visitors …not tourists .

Ken Strauss
Reply to  Wally Keeler
5 years ago

No one expects tourists to contribute anything to those multitude of businesses. The 900 figure has no other purpose than to dilute your argument. The figures you provide are myopic.

My figures are no more misleading than those in the Waterfront Guide. You are absolutely correct that “no one expects tourists to contribute anything to those multitude of businesses”. Tourists contribute nothing to the lives of the vast majority of Cobourg residents. Why should everyone be forced to contribute to attracting tourists and be inconvenienced by the resulting congestion and additional expenses for cleanup and policing? Why is it reasonable to force everyone to pay for something that benefits very few residents? I know: It is for the revenue!!

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Ken Strauss
5 years ago

Ken Strauss admits, “My figures are no more misleading than those in the Waterfront Guide.

Thank you for that admission, although I would say that your figures were more misleading.

Ken Strauss asserts, “Tourists contribute nothing to the lives of the vast majority of Cobourg residents.

What a pathetic assertion, weighted down with absolutes: “nothing”, “vast majority”. Of course your perception is one of $$$$$$ only. Tourists come to Cobourg. A few think it is a splendid place and take out a mortgage. And there is all of the interaction between Cobourg young people and people from outside that will always remain unquantifiable, but I lived the experience with my thousands of fellow Cobourg residents who flock to Victoria Park to enjoy their free-range childhood and free-range youth. And let us note the thousands and thousands of Cobourg residents who flock to Victoria Park for the Fun and Festivities. The vast majority of Cobourg residents voted with their feet to enjoy all of the park’s activities. You, Mr Strauss, are in no position to lecture born residents about the desires of the vast majority of Cobourg residents concerning their Victoria Park.

Ken Strauss queries, “Why should everyone be forced to contribute to attracting tourists and be inconvenienced by the resulting congestion and additional expenses for cleanup and policing?

Because the vast majority of Cobourg residents enjoy all of the activities and festivities afforded in Victoria Park. We spend the money on ourselves, and if tourists come to also enjoy, then that is just a bit more icing on the cake as we pick their pockets from parking revenue, canteen revenue, marina parking, trailer park revenue, plus the free enterprisers who made their empty lots available to tourists at $20 per day.

Ken Strauss whines, “Why is it reasonable to force everyone to pay for something that benefits very few residents?”

All the activities and festivities in Victoria Park benefits the majority of residents. I know this because thousands and thousands of Cobourg residents flock to Victoria Park for the all too brief summer fun. It is only a handful of misers and moaners that belong to the “very few.

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Ken Strauss
5 years ago

Ken Strauss commented, “My figures are no more misleading than those in the Waterfront Guide.

Your CTA missives are exceedingly misleading. The best example is the recent CTA missive opposing the Waterpark in which the CTA spread the FAKE NEWS that Most of the citizens of Cobourg have indicated that they do not want more visitors coming to the beach.” This wasn’t just an assertion made by the CTA, it was a loud assertion placed in bold font typeface, yet that wasn’t enough; the CTA tripled down on the same fake news by underlining it.

YOU, as a governing member of the CTA, own that ludicrous assertion of fake news. I am happy that the Town issued the brochure to counter the fake news that the CTA is attempting to spread amongt Cobourg residents.

Dubious
Reply to  Wally Keeler
5 years ago

Happy to.

What is your rationale for claiming that 2000 survey respondents represent the majority yet the 110 businesses who participated in the survey are irrelevant? Many of the “resident” respondents are not actually Cobourg residents and ALL business respondents represent Cobourg businesses. Even ignoring that fact, 110 out of 900 businesses is over 12% of the businesses and 2000 out of 19440 residents is only 10%. Just because the businesses don’t agree with your biases certainly doesn’t make their responses irrelevant!

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Ken Strauss
5 years ago

It should also be noted that tourism is not just a matter of economics. The myopic hang on that point exclusively. Ken Strauss does not address the fact that students obtain a lot of employment experience and money to pay for their tuition. Good spin off for Cobourg students. It happened in my youth and happens today; networking for students. Cobourg youth have been provided with opportunities to make new friends, acquaintances, from The Big City, not just that they are from the big city but that the tourists are far more diverse than our overwhelming white bread mozarella skinned population in Cobourg and our youth get to experience diversity before they head off to a city renown for diversity. I know students that moved to Toronto for college, university, or even job opportunities and moved in with youths they had met in Cobourg during the summer. On top of that, tourists provide opportunities for romance in a more diverse population, broken hearts, or marriage, or anything inbetween. The money spent during the summer is mostly spent for local residents, not for tourists. The Waterfront Festival, Ribfest, etc etc are all done for OUR benefit; tourists are incidental. Much of the $$$$$ you bemoan being spent on the waterfront benefits Cobourg residents more than anyone else. Your myopic focus on only a fraction of the issue suggests to me that your experience of Cobourg overall is middling at best.

Cobourg Person
Reply to  Wally Keeler
5 years ago

The purpose of local government is not to ensure that students obtain employment experience. Local government’s purpose is to make the lives of residents better.

Your second sentence contradicts the first. Students are residents and employment would make their lives better.

Bill Thompson
Reply to  Wally Keeler
5 years ago

“It should also be noted that tourism is not just a matter of economics”
Do you actually think the town also holds that view ?

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Bill Thompson
5 years ago

Yes, I do. I say that based on my 70+ years of experience relative to Victoria Park and tourism. That 70 years allowed me to play with a lot of children when I was a child here. I got to play with a lot of teens and youth, publishing their poetry, and publishing a new zine for them as wel as being a reporter for the Cobourg Sentinel-Star. Those children and teens grew up, some moved away, many stayed and developed businesses and families and held office. It’s a big family this community. All of that together informs me that 80% desire tourists as a real fact of Cobourg life.

Frenchy
Reply to  Wally Keeler
5 years ago

Eighty percent of Cobourg residents agreed that tourism is or will be important to the Town’s economy.

Seventy-seven percent of business agreed that tourism is or will be important to the Town’s economy.

Forty-six percent of businesses stated that they depend on or benefit from tourists.

“It should also be noted that tourism is not just a matter of economics. The myopic hang on that point exclusively.”

Yet you are the one that started this thread with that same myopic slant… THE ECONOMY

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Frenchy
5 years ago

Because I know how the trough works to initiate a feeding frenzy. Look, it happened just as I hoped.

Ken Strauss
Reply to  Wally Keeler
5 years ago

Please help me to understand. You make ludicrous comments in order to get people to post? What is your actual opinion?

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Ken Strauss
5 years ago

You know very well what your actual personal opinion of me is.

Frenchy
Reply to  Wally Keeler
5 years ago

I think Ken Strauss meant “What is your actual opinion” of the Waterfront “Guide” Mailed to all Cobourg Households.
I got that and I have poor reading and comprehension skills.

Ken Strauss
Reply to  Wally Keeler
5 years ago

My opinion of YOU is irrelevant. I was asking about YOUR opinion.

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Ken Strauss
5 years ago

My opinion is that 80% of Cobourg residents desire tourists. That is a FACT. Swallow it.

manfred s
Reply to  Wally Keeler
5 years ago

perhaps more accurately described as ‘extrapolation from a limited sampling’ than “fact”

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Ken Strauss
5 years ago

Your CTA, Mr Strauss made the Whopper of the Year comment when they asserted in bold underlined font the following FAKE NEWS, “Most of the citizens of Cobourg have indicated that they do not want more visitors coming to the beach.” 80% of Cobourg residents regard that CTA comment as a bald-faced crock.

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Frenchy
5 years ago

The word ECONOMY belongs to the Town. You are quoting the Town, not me.

Frenchy
Reply to  Wally Keeler
5 years ago

I was quoting your post. How would I would I know that you copied someone else’s words and posted them as your own?
Rarely do you cite references to others work, and continually express others opinions and ideas as your own.
I thought you had started to use that checker I sent you. https://smallseotools.com/plagiarism-checker/
Even Walter is getting on board with that.

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Frenchy
5 years ago

petty silliness.