With all the interest in Sustainability and Climate change, one Cobourg resident is sold on one of the current trends – Electric Cars. Harry Nash and his wife Linda are planning an “adventure” – they are driving their 2017 Tesla Model S from Cobourg to see family on the West Coast of the U.S. then the South Coast – see the map below. In a way, this shows that with the right car, there is no need for range anxiety. But since Harry is an organized person, he has mapped where he needs to stop, how long he needs to wait for recharging and how much charge there will be at any point in time. Harry gave me his data and I have extracted some interesting facts.
Trip Statistics (distances in km)
| Length of Trip | 11,667 |
| Number of re-charge stops | 70 |
| Average distance between stops | 167 |
| Maximum distance between stops | 259 |
| Average charge time | 0:29 |
| Average charge cost | $8.80 |
| Total Charge cost | $616 |
| Minimum charge when recharging required | 10% |
| Average charge at end of re-charge | 70% |
| Maximum charge at end of re-charge | 98% |
| Average time between stops | 1:23:28 |
| Maximum stop time | 1:01 |
| Minimum stop time | 0:13 |
For the Tesla model S, recharging is free – above costs are for other models. Harry estimates an internal combustion engine would cost $1300 to refuel. If you are looking to charge your Tesla Model S for free, there is a Tesla SuperCharger in Port Hope – behind Harvey’s on Telephone Road. Although they are lower power, there are two charging stations in Cobourg – one at the Best Western and the other adjacent to LUSI’s office on Division Street.
Harry is assuming his average travelling speed will be 120km/hr but did not say how many overnight stops he’s making or how many kilometers he’ll travel each day.
Here is some more info on Electric Cars that Harry supplied:
The Tesla is recognised by every safety testing establishment in North America as the safest vehicle ever. Top speed on the Tesla model S is 230Km/h. Zero to sixty time is just over 3 seconds, making it one of the fastest production vehicles in the world. Since there is no engine, there are no oil changes, fan belts, timing belts, water pumps etc., etc, thus making the car extremely inexpensive to operate. Harry has installed a dryer plug in his garage. He plugs into it before bed and has a full battery when he wakes up in the AM (charging at the low electricity rate). His vehicle has a 100 KWh battery, giving approx. 520 Km range.
Motor Trend Magazine made it the car of the year in 2013. This year, the same magazine came out with the statement that the 2013 Tesla Model S is the best car of all that they have ever tested since 1949.
Given that 50% of all petroleum is used in the transportation industry, and that the battery industry is working overtime constantly to supply the needs of manufacturers, it is easy to understand why big auto and big oil are not happy.
Downside is cost of the vehicle. A Model S is not a good example, since it’s top of the line, but the Model 3 can go for as little as $46,000.
Harry and his wife are heading off to include the Christmas/New Year period with family so will be leaving in the next week or so.
Addendum – 8 Jan 2020
Report on Actual Trip
The original route went over the Rockies in Winter and Harry was advised against that. So in the end the trip went via Albuquerque to San Antonio and missed California. Here are some trip statistics:
| Distance | 7,400 km |
| Driving Time | 67 hours |
| Charging Time | 21 hours |
| Total Trip Time | 89 hours |
| Total Energy Used | 1,547 kWh |
| Average Efficiency | 211 Wh/km |
Harry also supplied details of his stops. Download details here.
Cobourg to San Antonio = 54 h 3 min (4,523 km); Return = 35 h 10 min (2,878 km); Total: 89 h 13 min (7,401 km)
Fuel Saving compared to gasoline engine (ICE car): Cobourg to San Antonio = $587; San Antonio back to Cobourg = $374; Total: $961
Comments
Estimated gas savings assumes Supercharging cost of $0.26 per kilowatt hour. Gasoline cost assumes 11.8 liters per 100km at $1.10 per liter. Local costs and real world results may vary.
If required to pay for charging, the cost of the trip is estimated as $400 for an EV and up to $1300 for an ICE car. If charging at home, the cost for that much power would range from $100 to $200, depending on the time of day you charge your car.
Power cost if at home
| KWh used | Peak Time $0.13/KWh |
Off-Peak $0.065/KWh |
| Energy Used on trip 1547 | $201.11 | $100.56 |
Lessons Learned (by Harry)
- Don’t attempt to charge at Collin St Bakery on a Sunday after church. The pious are charging then!
- Tesla charging stations are vulnerable to unserviceability and vandalism.
- Self-drive technology is in its infancy. As we are told- don’t trust it yet.- especially in construction areas.
- Tesla navigation systems are very good.
- Computers have bugs.
Print Article:
Canadian Tire has received a $2.7 million subsidy from the Trudeau government to install electric car charging stations across Canada https://www.thepostmillennial.com/trudeau-gives-canadian-tire-2-7-million-for-electric-car-charging-stations/
I find it funny how people always use the wrong price for electric charge
By November the charge was 20 cent per kw prime time and 10.5 cents in off perk hour
Also were is the delivery charge and gst charge ?
Also you are spending close to $70,000 for a Tesla
Buy a Corolla and save a ton of money
When they can sell a $20,000 car let me know
i don’t know about him, but in my seventies i have determined that NOTHING IS FREE! if you got it FREE someone else Payed FOR IT! LIKE ELECTRICITY? For the Tesla model S, recharging is free
“To date the department has subsidized 102 of the latter EV chargers–up to $50,000 each–that a recent audit determined are barely used.”
https://www.thepostmillennial.com/trudeau-government-approves-hundreds-of-electric-vehicle-charging-stations-audit-shows-operational-stations-barely-used/
I imagine the same type of thing was going on when the first gasoline powered cars came on the scene. Gas stations sprung up and had to wait for the ICE cars to become more popular (which they obviously did) to be fully utilized. Hitching posts and horse troughs had to be switched out for parking meters.
“I imagine the same type of thing”
Yes, you do imagine. It’s a rather flaccid imagination. Lacks the substance of back-up stats. Provide a link.
Snow, Traffic Jams and Electric Cars – h as anyone thought about it?
If all cars were electric … and were caught up in a three hour traffic jam…
With dead batteries – then what?
Not to mention, that there is virtually no heating in an electric vehicle.
And if you get stuck on the road all night, no battery, no heating !!!
You can try calling 911 to bring woman and children to safety!
But they can not even come to help you since all roads are blocked !!!!
And when the roads become unblocked no one can move!
How do you charge the thousands of cars from the traffic jam?
Same problem during summer vacation departures with miles of traffic jams.
This will make cars run out of “fuel” and cause never ending traffic jams.
But that will never happen – eh – ?
thumbs down, Please Explain! now in my mid seventies with little money to spare i might consider in investing with your better alternative!
Please let me elaborate. from what i read on this blog most people are by millennium age.
now saying that, most people will pay an electricity bill? NOW trying driving your car below 32 degrees F height with the heater on low! its cold but if you turn the heat up it gets conformable. (that is using heat created by the internal combustion engine) NOW, your electricity user’s as you should be well aware of, an electric water heater uses the most power, seconded by the clothe dryer & thirdly the stove. (thank God the dryer & stove don’t run 24/7) ether does the water heater.
now! these appliances are not very cost efficient. the electric motors of this generation are very efficient, BUT if you need heat in an electric vehicle (i mean warm heat) you lose the fuel range by half) AND TO CONCLUDE THE POWER TO RUN THESE JUGGERNAUTS,whether it be hydro,nuclear,wind,solar IS BEING PAYED BY YOU & ME!
Are there some comments here that got deleted, or did greengrass just thumbs down themselves and then respond to themselves with a clarification?
try the thumbs up or down on your own entry. IT DON’T WORK!
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/firefighters-electric-cars-crashes-accidents-rescue-work-1.5397650
and this problem
I’ll bet Mr. and Mrs. Nash are sorry they ever told John about their upcoming adventure.
What nonsense are you saying? Your green buddies broadcast this trip to whole world to promote ev’s. Its like a “climate change” “sustainability” info-mercial.
And hopefully they have just a little bit of a sense of humour.
Spent petroleum exhaust does not heat the planet. Carbon dioxide levels today are less than 600 years ago. An eruption of a volcano one day emits more carbon than all combustion engines ever. How about taxing volcanoes? That is equally ludicrous.
Sure looks historically not high to me.
Sure, I could post a graphic that shows the atmospheric carbon concentration was higher 500 years ago when
-Greenland was covered in grass not a glacier;
-The Northern passage allowed ships to go over the North American continent now froze over;
-Grapes and wineries prove Northern shores in Norway and Finland were warm are now covered with ice .
-a WW2 bomber built in Canada crashed in Greenland and was found under a 100 feet of ice and is still accumulating not because the climate changed today but changed centuries ago when we had no SUVs
SURE AS HELL MADE AL GORE A LOT MORE MONEY FEAR MONGERING THAN HE MADE AS GOVERNOR?
You might want to transfer this discussion to a new post coming at 1:00 pm today (Wednesday). The Sustainability and Climate Change Advisory Committee wants Council to act now to save the human race from extinction. That’s the theme of a presentation due to be made at Monday’s COW meeting.
This extinction scare is nonsense. I studied it for 35 years and everything the alarmists said did not come to pass. There were books yanked from the library because they said there would be no more snow by 2010 and obviously the alarmists were wrong. The alarmists in the 1970s said the Ice Age is coming and it didn’t. So the Globalist changed there schtick to global warming because that did not work for there globalist control program https://realclimatescience.com/1970s-global-cooling-scare/
Good news is there is not an Extinction coming due to human influenced climate change. Rest easy the climate crisis is a scam, we are not going extinct. https://realclimatescience.com/
Good timing for the new post. Today also the Prime Minister announces the new cabinet and Minister portfolios. If Catherine McKenna gets the Infrastructure portfolio (I hope) it will set a much needed tone for important role of the environment in planning and building our future prosperity.
You climate change zealots sound almost as fanatical as those who perceive you as their opposition.
Chill out, don’t get hysterical, there’s probably a lot of truths on both sides of this argument.
Frenchy said, “You denier zealots” – I repeat, the mating call of the ignorant.
Climate Marxists call real climate scientists zealots, meanwhile the Second law of Thermodynamics destroys the Greenhouse effect theory since heat escapes radiating out to space and the CO2 cannot accumulate heat. Thermal energy is lost to space since the sky has no ceiling.
Did you just…throw a dartboard at some sciencey sounding words and then post them?
Are your “real climate scientists” the 97% who support the theory of human-caused climate change, or is almost every scientist on the subject a “marxist” (And what on EARTH do you think that is supposed to mean in a scientific context?)
When we get into feces, body fluids and the Holocaust, it may be time to give this topic a rest.
So tell us, Walter Luedtke, other than a 16 year old ‘savant’, what evidence do you have to support the claim that we are at the “beginning of a mass extinction“? Denier Zealots around the world want to know.
I always figure it’s time to put a topic to rest when you look over on the right side of this page and see that under “recent comments” about 6 or 7 of them are from Wally “007” Keller. You know then that there will be no further sensible debate.
Greta Thunberg, the International star of the latest propaganda world tour dupes gullible people everywhere.
https://dailycaller.com/2019/11/18/greta-thunberg-climate-change-media/
A message brought to you by the Climate Zealotry Committee
Wouldn’t it be funny if the couple returned in a big beautiful gas suv because in their own words… ” the piece of sh*t kept running out of juice as soon as we turned on the heat, they dont tell you that the heat draws tons of power, and then the stupid thing caught fire and burned when the batteries shorted, its a burnt out hull somewhere in a Manitoba scrap yard, leaving us stranded with all our stuff burned up with it, and so we had to get this rental to come home in. You know, to be honest, we never did believe in the climate change bull sh*t anyways. Now leave us alone, we have a life to live”
No, that would not be funny, if it were real. I hope they have a nice safe trip. 🙂
Their itinerary takes them nowhere near Manitoba – or Canada, for that matter – once they cross into the U.S. at Detroit, though they are headed into the mountainous American northwest well after the summery weather has gone south.
Ok that was fictional. You must know that. But lets make the fictional breakdown happen in South Dakota if you like.
Cheers
God forbid but I hope there Tesla doesn’t explode like they have multiple times.
Tesla Model S Spontaneously on Fire in Los Angeles
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdaFk3w6rUY
You denier zealots sound more fanatical than those you perceive as your opposition.
Chill out, don’t get hysterical, there’s probably a lot of truths on both sides of this argument.
We just had a poster make a post about super charged global heating and you talk about fanatics and hysterics and zealots?
Then you say chill out?
Then you say that there is probably a lot of truths on both sides, but one side are “denier zealots”
That does not make any sense.
“denier, denier, denier” It’s the mating call of the ignorant. It’s often heard from the likes of David Suzuki and his ilk when they call for the imprisonment of denier politicians. The denier cat call is just one more litany arrow from the lefty tribe: racist, sexist, denier, etc. It’s just a verbal spit. That’s about as intelligent as it gets.
It originated from odious anti-semites denying the Holocaust happened. The left saw that “Holocaust denier” was a powerful sledge hammer to use against opponents and skeptics. So it gets changed to “climate change denier” and now it gets turned up even higher “denier zealots”.
It’s not supposed to make sense, other than as a ‘I spit on you’.
NURSE!!!!
No need Albert, sounds like Wally already has his meds.
Intelligent argument is preferable.
Heh, heh, heh.
Not on this blog, at least not on this subject.
And certainly not by you.
Comparing calling climate deniers “climate deniers” to calling holocaust deniers “holocaust deniers” is ignorant and shameful. You should be ashamed.
indeed they should
Who made that comparison?
Climate Crisis Crazies leave the streets littered with garbage, then attempt to shame the clear thinking Climate Change Critics.
Not that I want to impose administrata on Harry and Linda BUT I do very much hope that they’ll keep up a journal of the trip. In particular, the Good, the Bad and the Ugly of the overall Tesla experience. I for one would like to hear a ‘real’ tale, with ‘real’ data, from local folk about their experiences. Again hope the trip is fulfilling and safe.
Behold your fellow citizens.
These are the folks who. according to a prolific poster, don’t “believe in freedom”, but are forcing their beliefs on ‘heavily-taxed regular folk’.
Or as a resident poet, who is shown in the photo above, put it: ‘the idiot actions of the middle-aged middle-class Extinction Rebellion’.
And from the same individual: ‘the stupid and ludicrous attitudes’ of green activists.
This started as a a feel-good story about an electric car trip.
But then the usual happens in this blog.
It turns into a hyperventilatibg mud brawl.
“With all the interest in Sustainability and Climate change, ”
That is the opening sentence in Mr Draper’s post above. It’s far more than a so-called “feel good story”. It was set up as a propaganda article for evs in relationship to climate change. This was a propaganda article. The message was seriously and rightly attacked as propaganda.
Typical Extinction Rebellion https://youtu.be/I_-wSckXbfc
Propaganda?
So Mr. Draper is a shill for “the idiot actions of the middle-aged middle-class Extinction Rebellion and the stupid and ludicrous attitudes of green activists.”
For many of us the strictly neutral stance of Mr. Draper’s reports has been valued as having great merit.
Sad it see this report libeled as ‘propaganda.
Are there others?
Wally is harkening back to his 007 days. Spy vs Spy type of thing where he sees a sinister plot behind anything he doesn’t agree with.
Are you familiar with a group called “The club of Rome” ?
What is your take on it? Would you write it off as 007 tin foil hat type of stuff?
Yes, propaganda. Exactly what the opening sentence said. The article was about the wonderfulness of evs that have now broken the “range anxiety“.as Mr Draper put it. That is propaganda, the selling of the green credits of evs at immense taxpayer expense.
Btw, I thought you were above making personal remarks, seeing as how you sanctimoniously admonish others for making personal remarks. but now we see the pure hypocrisy of your personal remarks. You criticize the messengers, not the message that evs are insignificant insofar as addressing the climate issue.
It is not a libel to criticize an article extolling the climate benefits of evs. Typical hyperbolic exaggeration by too many climate extremists trying to kill the messenger. Get over it and address the issues, instead of whining about them.
Btw, you have a disgusting habit of putting words into the mouths of others. No where did I assert that Mr Draper is a shill for “The idiot actions of the middle-aged, middle-class Extinction Rebellion…”
This what I wrote: “I would charge Greta Thunberg with inspiring and validating the idiot actions of the middle-aged middle-class Extinction Rebellion.”
No reference whatsoever to Mr Draper or his blog as you falsely assert. I stand by my assertion that only idiots would espouse the malicious belief that we are at the “beginning of a mass extinction.” It is one of most unhelpful remarks ever made; it’s actually damaging.
This is what I wrote, “I would especially change the stupid and ludicrous attitudes that green activists have against the overwhelming benefits of nuclear energy.”
Again that was not directed towards Mr Draper or Mr Draper’s blog. Mr Luedtke doesn’t seem to mind chopping and editing a sentence to mean something it is not. Typical leftist propaganda techniques. Mr Luedtke conveniently deletes the context that I was referring to nuclear energy.
That is propaganda on Mr Luedtke’s part.
Relax Wally.
You’ll hurt yourself.
Relax your personal insults Mr Luedtke. Try intelligent argument.
Breaking news:
Global heating is “supercharging” an increasingly dangerous climate mechanism in the Indian Ocean that has played a role in disasters this year including bushfires in Australia and floods in Africa. The Guardian.
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2019/nov/19/global-heating-supercharging-indian-ocean-dipole-climate-system
From the article referenced by Walter:
“… although climate scientists are racing to try to develop predictive modelling, there is disagreement over whether stronger Indian Ocean dipole events will lead to a wetter climate for Africa or a drier one.”
Wetter or drier, somebody will be correct and then her model will be cited by all of the “experts” as correctly forecasting the climate!
https://www.climatedepot.com/2019/11/19/world-climate-declaration-there-is-no-climate-emergency/
A group of over 700 scientists [aka denier zealots] and professionals [aka denier zealots] has prepared this urgent message to the United Nations and the European Commission: Climate science should be less political, while climate policies should be more scientific.
A very good read.
That is why they changed the name from global warming to climate change. They then could say that it is going to get warmer and colder too. It was not getting warmer, that was obvious for all to notice.
They also said it was getting warmer but it is hidden in the oceans. Because dont forget that their very basis is “man made co2 and the green house effect.” That they can not get away from. That they can not change. It is their life force.
They also said that if it gets very cold , even record cold , then that is just weather not climate. They just threw out their predictions that snow was going to be a thing of the past. That one went down the old memory hole. It’s officially toast. Same with the oceans flooding. But it is more like on life support. When the lake flooded , they said it was not dam mismanagement, that it was climate change.
Now if you don’t play along with this nonsense then you are a denier.
Then they say that 97% of scientists agree with it all.
Its hard to keep track. I’m sure they confused themselves but thats ok they still feel righteous. Because they know one thing , that it is that they are not deniers.
Get it?
No?
I did not think so, that is why you are a “denier”!
I’m a “denier” too.
Btw , I was saying “they” say this and that.
You might ask who are “they”? and I would have say that I really don’t know who “they” are. Maybe someone should ask them to clarify who they are. But they probably dont know. They just know that they are not deniers.
So now it is called supercharged global heating? That name might get some people alarmed, but it might be a bit over the top, especially since the name keeps changing.
700 scientists will be announcing today that climate emergency does not exist, that it is that it is merely the super-charged fantasies of old cranks.
https://www.climatedepot.com/2019/11/19/world-climate-declaration-there-is-no-climate-emergency/
A project of CFACT which is funded by the Donors Trust, which in turn is financed by the Koch Brothers and the Olin Foundation, representing the oil and munitions interests in the US.
Oh so those are the demons? Big deal Walter; the naming of names and not connecting them to anything. Typical lefty argument; zero logic. So what if it was partially funded by Koch Bro? Big deal, so what if the anti-pipeline crowd was partially funded by Soros. It’s a tired and feeble argument — guilt by association. Are you suggesting that the 700 scientists have all taken bribes from those demons, Walter? Quit the smear and slander and other puerile name-callings and present a cogent argument supporting the belief that Earth is at the beginning of a mass extinction. This sort of stupidity comes from the gullible believers of 16 year old ‘savants’.
Omg, did somebody miss the “green” angle? Its not even an angle , it’s head on direct.
It’s more like an info-mercial for green-mobiles and “sustainability” than an article about a trip.
They did not miss it, they are just playing games.
Typical and tiring leftist argument technique, make the issue exclusively about a feel good trip. The issue was clearly stated in the opening sentence. It was discussed by posters on this blog. Lefties are well known to suppress speech that does not match their political policies.
The left is big on climate change, telling us how bad we are, how wonderful they are to care about the planet. PRZT! Well welcome to push-back against the chronic scold scold scold from the middle-aged middle class train wreck called Extinction Rebellion, and their supporters who assert that Earth is at the “beginning of a mass extinction,” They trample on the rights of others who go to work to feed their families. The End-of-the-Worlders are the new age crackpots.
https://unearthed.greenpeace.org/2019/03/28/china-new-coal-plants-2030-climate/
“The cap would enable China to build 2 large coal power stations a month for the next 12 years, and grow the country’s capacity by an amount nearly twice the size of Europe’s total coal capacity. If this happens it could single-handedly end any chance of keeping global warming below 1.5C, and also conflicts with the 2C target, with even a conservative analysis of the goal requiring that China cut its coal capacity by roughly 200GW by 2030.”
Not once in my life have I heard of a green activist addressing the situation with China. Extinction Rebellion will DO NOTHING ABOUT IT, They are noble dupes and a major culvert for the dangerous belief that we are at the beginning of a mass extinction. But those idiot believers will DO NOTHING.
Wally, calm down, you’re starting to sound hysterical.
Remember this?
“I didn’t use exclamation points nor all-caps in my post unlike the hysterical who use all caps.”
Wally Keller 6 November 2018
This climate Crisis is nonsense. Only brave Scientists like Dr. Mototaka Nakamura who doesn’t fear loosing funding from the Globalist bankers speaks out in defense of real science and exposes the plot of the international banking elite.
You haven’t done your research if you are buying int the Climate Crisis hoax.
Read this for starters https://electroverse.net/another-climate-scientist-with-impeccable-credentials-breaks-ranks/
Check out Dr. Mototaka Nakamura’s website to ease your climate fears.at https://realclimatescience.com/the-history-of-the-modern-climate-change-scam/
“With all the interest in Sustainability and Climate change, ” phooey!
Toxic waste dumping and plastics in the ocean are real pollution problems not the carbon dioxide the building block of life on the planet.
Thanks very much for those links Max. They both made for good reading.
Oh great … a scientist who specializes in modelling criticizing the work of peers, also scientists specializing in modelling, by insulting them. No doubt there was lots of money made in the Y2K crisis too. Humans have been very good at figuring out how to make money during times of change or crisis. Modelling the future is our best prediction within our limitations at the time.
700 scientists will be announcing today that they are skeptical of the accuracy of modelling.
https://www.climatedepot.com/2019/11/19/world-climate-declaration-there-is-no-climate-emergency/
“Climate models have many shortcomings and are not remotely plausible as EU policy tools. They blow up the effect of greenhouse gases such as CO2. In addition, they ignore the fact that enriching the atmosphere with CO2 is beneficial.”
” Modelling the future is our best prediction within our limitations at the time.”
Modelling the future or fabricating nightmares, Garbage in, garbage out. I do not have such blind trust in modelling. Is the data input complete? Is the data poured in accurate? Who selects the data to be input? These are just part of our limitations, and this is our best predictive tool? I am not ready to hang a trillion dollar hat on that hook. I do remember climategate. I do know that the hockey stick ‘scientist’, Michael Mann duped Al Gore, who, in turn, duped society with a hockey stick graph and no one has seen any of the data Mr Mann claims to have. There is the polar bear fraud of diminishing numbers due to “climate change”. So much cause for skepticism.
“This started as a feel-good story about an electric car trip”
You’re comical.
It would have been even funnier if you had typed “This all started as a feel-good story about a nice little car trip in a car that just happens to be electric and therfore a car that will help save the world from the impending end of world climate change/global warming/climate crisis- apocalypse. This trip will very much please our green gods. In the name of saint Greta , I say Hallaleuja! and bon voyage!”
Very good satire, John Green. The righteous scolds have no argument outside of personal remarks.
Thanks WK
I remind myself that the globalist climate change nonsense will inevitably fold up like the cheap tent of lies and manipulation that it is. But, it is going to take time so don’t let it irritate you too much. Its just not worth it.
Scientific BS. Recent years has produced the seasonal mantra that hurricanes are getting worse because of Climate Creep. Forbes exposed this scientific idiocy and fraud. Polar bears are thriving. That was another scientific fraud amplified by dupes to further the Great Green Agenda.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/rogerpielke/2019/11/15/no-hurricanes-are-not-bigger-stronger-and-more-dangerous/?utm_source=CCNet%2BNewsletter&utm_campaign=07875d28f6-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2019_11_19_11_13_COPY_02&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_fe4b2f45ef-07875d28f6-36480609&mc_cid=07875d28f6&mc_eid=0b8ced4572#1ed4ad4c4d9e
@ Walte K re. “your fellow citizens”
You have created a bit of a straw man fallacy…
The “prolific poster” believes that the majority of climate activists are good people with good intentions. But the climate change agenda is to exploit well intended people to further the socialists goals, and socialism is definitely not big on freedom.
Also, I stand by my assertion that regular people are heavily overtaxed.
And more, Many “climate activists” show up at these various rallies because they get a day off work/school or its what the union wants or their gov agency or their club or friends are going, etc. etc. In the bigger high profile rallies some are actually paid to demonstrate. There is alot of money in climate change! Just look at all the grant money a climate researcher can obtain if he or she reaches the right conclusions!
There is a lot of people making a very comfortable living saving the world! It is a major industry that has taken on a life of its own. But, You can’t blame people for wanting to put bread on the table, right?
It’s wonderful to be able to air ones differences of opinion here and not be fired for it or harassed. Mr. Cherry should move here.
I had hoped that my earlier comment would have caused a different discussion. I am a fervent believer in global warming. In fact I have been following this discussion since 1975. The only place which will cause people to make the life changes necessary to attack global warming is in the wallet. In my example the major costs Harry would incur versus me would be in the 3 extra nights on the road. (Less fuel efficient vehicles would see a greater cost however). That could be up to $750 extra for Harry. The remedy is to increase my carbon costs. We cannot wait for some magic improvement in battery technology. We need to get high carbon emitting vehicles off the road now. If people like me don’t see a financial penalty we will continue to drive those gas guzzlers.
Discussions about the petro. industry are not relevant.
Magic? Can’t wait? The doomsday thing is near 45 years old, according to your 1975 timeline. Hundreds of CC doomsdays have come and passed. There have been a very wide assortment doomsday prophecies since the begining of time. But this one is the real thing, right?
What if there are many people who are not believers? Are you ok with forcing your belief on people who are sincerely and fervently non believers? What gives you that right? Do you not believe in freedom? I support your freedom to believe in what you want. But I do not support you forcing your beliefs on others.
Btw, wasn’t there a scare about global cooling back around 75? Did you believe in that too?
From where do evs get their electricity? Wind and solar provide a tiny proportion to the electric grid, so the vast majority of evs in NAmerica will get their electricity from fossil fuels. Evs still have to suck their electrical nourishment through an umbilical cord attached to fossil fuels.
Yet the ev industry sells its product as emissions-free and the gullible swallow the pitch, without any further thought. An ev has no virtue signaling value whatsoever. Breaking this propaganda bubble seems to excite the gullible dupes into personal hissy fits shooting blanks. . .
What a fantastic road trip. Upon returning to Cobourg It will be interesting to hear back from the Nash’s as to how reality compared to plans and expectations. I’ve often wondered how a cross country electric car road trip would be accomplished. I thank Mr. Nash for sharing his trip plans in his Tesla, very, very interesting indeed.
I would like to see everyone enjoying a nice trip.
Present company included.
But , I swear, the greens want to have it so that the select few are taking trips in their heavily tax subsidized “green” cars, while the rest of our society is stuck waiting out in the snow and rain for the town bus. Hey, but I’m sure everyone might support nice bus shelters!
My Tesla model 3 was not subsidized at all. Also, we paid for all the electrical hookups at our home our selves. Get your facts straight please before putting negative comments online.
My facts are straight.
I’m saying that the electric car industry and the infrastructure required, is heavily subsidised by our tax dollars. Also, the impact on our environment by electric cars, is much greater than that of gas cars.
You are making that personal, and a negative. I mean you no personal offense. Just trying to tell it like it is. That is what forums are for. You are free to disagree and down vote, be my guest.
You made it personal when you said “ But , I swear, the greens want to have it so that the select few are taking trips in their heavily tax subsidized “green” cars, while the rest of our society is stuck waiting out in the snow and rain for the town bus.”. …
I guess as I own an EV (purchased with no subsidy) that I’m a “green” and I don’t want you to take a trip, or anyone else who doesn’t have an EV. You’re comments make people who choose to buy an EV feel like they are bad people who want to screw others over. Your comments, and others, create stereotypes, stigmas and division. What ‘good’ do those results produce?
Fossil fuel subsidies to Canadian oil producers total $3.3 billion annually, Yet just under $50M annually to EV car buyers. And still those buying EVs pay more out of pocket by far, even with the “government subsidy”.
Change is good for society. In the past, the world was dependant on whale oil for all gas lanterns. It was warned that moving away from whale oil and whaling would cripple economies around the world. But they did move away from whale oil, ultimately moving to electricity, but it took change that was unwelcome and disruptive. And we all love our electricity now.
It’s pretty evident that petroleum is not the future for our societies. Change will happen, uncomfortable or not. We need to stop calling people “greens” for making different choices. And if the cost of change is hard, ask elected officials to work to innovate better methods to keep change alive. Otherwise we will devolve into a society where we are highly divided and no good comes from that.
I said the greens. If that is you then that is your call.
Oil companies collect taxes for the government that far out weigh any corporate wellfare. They have a cozy relationship. The oil companies are practically government. They have no problem with the green agenda. They will do ju$t fine with green cars. Its the heavily taxed regular folk who will pay the bill, whether they like it or not, and whether they believe in climate change or not. It is very divisive to disregard the large segment of our country who do not support the green agenda.
Also, when the free market moved away from whale oil ir was because electrucity was a much better technology.. It improved peoples lives.It did not need big government subsidy. That was a good example of the kind of free market principle that works.
Not subsidized? What about the tax on gasoline that the rest of us pay?
Battery technolgy is not there yet.
The manufacture of electric cars, with all of the infrastructure required, produces far more impact on the environment than good old modern efficient shiny new gas cars. That is why electric cars require so much subsidy from your tax dollars. And what does the government care? It’s your money. And it is the more well off citizens who buy electric cars. Its a status symbol.
The technology will be developed in time if we rely on free market principles. Assuming that we still go by free markets in the future.
Can you prove it’s a status symbol? Have you interviewed all EV owners to ask if they bought an EV just to impress others and feed their egos?
Again, your comments are divisive. Go meet some EV owners and get educated, then form an opinion. For example, my parents don’t own EV’s as do most of my friends. I don’t cal them “polluters”. They made a choice that worked best for them. And the petroleum industry is FAR more subsidized by MY tax dollars than EVs are. Over $3.3B annually to $50M /2 years for EV’s. And I don’t criticize them, categorize them or stigmatize them. Because dividing people doesn’t work or make the world a better place.
Like I said, go meet lots of EV owners and then form an opinion, because I don’t know a single EV owners that wants you waiting in the snow and rain for a bus.
True. check this Tesla out.
Tesla Model 3 explosion in Moscow, Russia
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrJZFT-0FOs
These insurance guys ought to be kidding.
Tesla Model S Spontaneously on Fire in Los Angeles
https://youtu.be/CdaFk3w6rUY
I just compared the costs etc of driving my diesel BMW over the same trip based on having driven to Arizona for 20 years. I get 5.2L per 100 kms. The same trip would cost $728 at $1.20 per L. I would need 13 10 min stops, averaging 1 stop per day. I could stop anywhere. Sorry my car can only do 0 to 60 in 6 sec.
Here is a community friendly suggestion…
Ask them to loop back to Cornwall where they might politely ask the crew at the Moses Saunders dam to open it up a bit so that we dont get the lake flooding again next spring.
Tesla has won the highest safety honor from the US Insurance Institute for Highway Safety for the first time in the electric vehicle maker’s history. The Tesla Model 3 earned the 2019 Top Safety Pick+ award from the organization after achieving a “good” performance in all six IIHS crash tests.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPxhA_kMB10
Oh the ingratitude of Tesla teasers. Look at all the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ it costs taxpayers.
Billions and billions of taxpayers $$$ spent to satisfy the virtues of green pretenders.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rd-6RTQlkzg
My brother-in-law just bought a Tesla and plans on driving here for a visit next summer from Salt Spring Island.
How many speeding tickets will be received at 120kph average speed??? You will have to go 140kph at times just to average 120.
Well done Harry and Linda! This looks like a fabulous trip. You are contributing well to the prevention of climate change. I look forward to hearing all about it upon your return. Full disclosure, I live across the street from the Nash couple and see this car most days. It is a beauty!
Looks like a great trip….glad to see they are riding the technology wave…the sinusoidal wave of electrical power !
Puts a new spin on the old Nash ‘Rambler’. Good luck I say.
The charging station adjacent to LUSI’s office on Division Street is only “free” because its cost is added to the bill of every customer of Lakefront Utility.
About $100/year split between 10,000 customers? I’ll tell you what Ken, I’ll pick up your 1 cent a year for you, so you don’t have to worry about it anymore. Let me know where to paypal the quarter to cover you to 2044.
Only $100? That seems a little low! From John’s previous article (https://www.cobourginternet.com/cobourg-news/news-2014/393-free-electric-car-charging-in-cobourg) the charging station cost $2000 + construction ($10000?) + power. Or for another cost estimate, MP Kim Rudd announced giving $2M to Sky Solar Canada Ltd. for 12 charging stations. That is $166,000 each…
“The purchase of the charger, manufactured by Sun Country Highway, was funded by two of the utility’s partners, HD Supply and Cam Tran, with electricity being provided by Lakefront itself.”
Looks like the charger and the power were not actually billed to any of us at all!
Also, does the cost of electricity include all the taxes normally charged in the total price of gasoline?
Yes, I agree Ken.
It should be ‘user pay’, not the taxpayer’s dime/dollar.
Just like sewers for Pebble Beach and flood damage to lake shore properties.
Walter, I’m unsure of your point. Could you please explain? As you probably know there are no sewers in the Pebble Beach neighbourhood so residents have always paid 100% of their sewer costs. I am not aware of any taxpayer money going for property damage due to high lake levels.
The fed govt will provide up $5,000 of taxpayers money towards the purchase of an ev.
Until Sept 10, 2018, Ontario provided up to $8,000 taxpayers money to purchase an ev.
https://emc-mec.ca/ev-101/ev-incentives/
https://www.nrcan.gc.ca/energy/funding-grants-and-incentives/electric-vehicle-infrastructure-demonstrations/18386
“The Energy Innovation Program (EIP) has received $46.1 million in funding over 2 years through Budget 2016, to support the demonstration of next-generation electric vehicle (EV) charging infrastructure in Canada. The Electric Vehicle Infrastructure Demonstration component will undertake Front End Engineering Design (FEED) studies and demonstrations to reduce the costs, understand the impacts and address potential hurdles for the deployment of next-generation charging infrastructure for electric vehicles.”
All this govt largesse for a tiny minority of ev owners. And they get to virtue signal at everyone else’s expense.
Do you know how much the petroleum industry is subsidized in Canada? So much more. Annually. Encouraging change at such a small cost comparatively is hard to criticize. Perhaps the government should stop subsidizing the petroleum industry and let you pay double or more at the pump and you’d likely change your tune to ask for government assistance to get a less expensive alternative EV.
Its more accurate to say we subsidize the government through the oil companies.
Taxes on gas are huge. Now there is the carbon tax grab too. Check the stickers at the pump asumming they have not been torn off by a green activist.
“let you pay double or more at the pump and you’d likely change your tune”
An impersonal pseudonym is out of tune making personal remarks. And providing no back-up links to support their wide-brush contentions. I chose to never own a car/suv/truck, so the rude personal comment is inapplicable.
“Do you know how much the petroleum industry is subsidized in Canada? So much more. Annually”
They are worth the subsidy. The govt finances investment into research to reduce carbon dioxide emissions. The govt subsidizes the best clean petroleum products in the world, and may they continue such research while the world wallows in the filthy oil bought from the tyrannical Royal Family of Saudi Arabia, or the filthy oil from the deadly dictatorshit of Venezuela, or from the theological tyranny of Iran.
The return of investment from evs is negligible, compared to Canada’s petroleum industry that provides life giving royalties to various indigenous groups, provides immense employment for Canada’s indigenous people, and pays enormous taxes to the federal govt. Evs are a sinkhole by comparison.
The idea that government shouldn’t fund change is hard to justify. Should we heavily tax all people who choose to smoke, drink or eat foods that encourage greater illness that our heavy cost medical care system has to deal with? So, think about what changes in our society should be supported and what shouldn’t be.
No, we should not have the government dictating personal behaviour through taxation. I prefer freedom. Less government. Less taxation. Free enterprise. Freedom in general. I want to be free from subsidising the green agenda. But I’m not. Neither are you, but you seem to be ok with that. For now.
“think about what changes in our society should be supported and what shouldn’t be.”
Ok. I support freedom first and foremost. It is the greatest generator of social wealth. I would charge David Suzuki for gross social mischief for calling for the imprisonment of politicians who fail to support David Suzuki’s ‘minimum’ demands. I would charge Greta Thunberg with inspiring and validating the idiot actions of the middle-aged middle-class Extinction Rebellion. I would especially change the stupid and ludicrous attitudes that green activists have against the overwhelming benefits of nuclear energy.
Question: did the Nash family receive a government subsidy to purchase their EV?
All of the gush in Mr Draper’s post relating to EVs needs a bit of caution: https://youtu.be/17xh_VRrnMU
Going to wait for a nuclear automobile, no?
Who has made that stupid recommendation?
Great video Wally. Not to mention the huge leaps being made in reducing fuel consumption by companies like Mazda.
Wally, if the info on the video you recommend above is true that is scary. It does seem very credible. Estimates for growth in solar/wind sources are much better than this video suggests. Alternate energy sources are already cheaper than most conventional sources, coal in particular. So, thankfully coal will die out – is dying out – in spite of the Donald’s best efforts. Very interesting video, all of you out there should watch it ! ! Harry, take lots of pictures and get prepared to present to our Probus club when you get back.
Bjorn Lomborg, author of the Skeptical Environmentalist, is quite astute and sensible regarding pollution issues. http://catdir.loc.gov/catdir/samples/cam031/00068915.pdf
Let’s not forget that Mr Lomborg was brought up on charges of academic dishonesty, and misrepresentation of facts, and two conclusions were reached:
1) His book was full of academic dishonesty, and misrepresented facts .
and
2) That he was too ignorant of the actual science to be held responsible for how inaccurate his work was.
Let that sink in as you consider his points of view: He was found to be -too stupid to know how bad his science was- to the point where his book was found to be FULL of bad science, but he wasn’t even considered sufficiently competent to be -blamed- for it.
That episode was nothing more than the typical leftist tactic to swarm, malign with overwhelmingly unsubstantiated accusations. SILENCE THE CRITIC is the tired tactic of choice, however the hand has been played so many times that people are rightly rejecting such hyperbolic crud.
So Dan, whatcha gonna do about the hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of coal plants being built around the world by China. I predict that all the green ilk will do exactly what you are doing about it — NOTHING! Pour me another whine.
I’ve already educated you on the subject of China Coal. If your memory isn’t up to the task of remembering, that’s not my fault. Likewise, if you can’t keep in your mind the memory of the explanation of the fact that Lomborg -was- found to be too incompetent to be blamed for how bad his science was, and the -opposing- position wasn’t that his science was good, but that his work wasn’t even science and so shouldn’t be held to the standards of science, that’s also not my fault.
This line is getting as old as you.
Yes, I know. You are a shill for the totalitarian China Coal Industry. Lomborg spoke heresy, and like good little monks, the True Believers swarmed him with pettiness and vindictiveness as surely as heretics were burned at the stake.
Your green propaganda is just that — propaganda. You have so far failed to make your case beyond ludicrous assertions which serve no purpose other than to cover up the vast Climate Crime being committed by China. .
Knowing what words mean, and being able to read more than a headline before I start frothing at the mouth; and being a shill are two very different things.
“Estimates for growth in solar/wind sources are much better than this video suggests.”
Of course, these renewable industries are heavily subsidized by government. Canada provides $5,000 rebate for an ev purchase.
“coal will die out – is dying out – in spite of the Donald’s best efforts.”
HEED THE REAL NEWS
https://unearthed.greenpeace.org/2019/03/28/china-new-coal-plants-2030-climate/
“The cap would enable China to build 2 large coal power stations a month for the next 12 years, and grow the country’s capacity by an amount nearly twice the size of Europe’s total coal capacity. If this happens it could single-handedly end any chance of keeping global warming below 1.5C, and also conflicts with the 2C target, with even a conservative analysis of the goal requiring that China cut its coal capacity by roughly 200GW by 2030.”
And guess what? The green movement ain’t gonna do a damn thing about it.
Good video Wally. Thanks for sharing it. Thought provoking … I wonder if the future electric cars will make some of their own fuel as they cruise down the highway.
Perpetual motion is a dream unlikely to be realized!
Solar ‘panels’ on the car. If advertising can be wrapped around a car, why not thin flexible solar collectors someday. Picture it … the new pink Caddy, a neon Tesla.
A car that runs on sunshine! I hope I live to see it.