Dramatic Presentation on Climate Crisis

At the next Committee of the Whole Meeting, Minnie de Jong, Chair of the Sustainability and Climate Change Advisory Committee (SCCAC), will make a presentation with the dramatic assertion that “We are Facing a Climate ‘Crisis'” and that the SCCAC recommends that Cobourg declare a Climate Emergency and take immediate action.  The presentation will start with the Time Magazine cover from April 3, 2006 which says “Be worried, be Very Worried”.  The presentation then goes on to say that we need to start aggressive action now and that if we fail, “human survival (is) at risk”.  And since “municipalities have influence over approx. 50% of GHG emissions in Canada”, Council must act when managing:  Land use/site planning and densities,  Buildings, Local transportation, Water and wastewater service.

Time Magazine - Global warming
Time Magazine – Global warming

You can download the full presentation from the Link below but here is a summary:

Climate Crisis – Presentation Summary

‘Crisis’ means an “unprecedented crisis requiring unprecedented action”.

We can’t afford to say:

  • Must wait until we have an ICSP in place (ICSP: Integrated Community Sustainability Plan)
  • Until the Building Code is updated
  • Must allow approvals of future developments to continue as approved or unfair to developer

The presentation then shows images of Droughts, Fires, Floods, High Winds and a European heat wave with the implication that these are all caused by Human caused Climate Change.

Recommendations

  • Council declare a climate emergency
  • Set GHG emission reduction target of minimum 60% below 2005 levels by 2030; net zero by 2050 [Other Municipalities have similar targets:  Halton Hills: net zero by 2030;  Burlington: net carbon neutral by 2040;  Kingston: carbon neutral by 2040]
  • Communicate declaration to Cobourg Community
  • Develop a Green Development Standard (GDS) [Define GHG emissions in new developments]
  • Develop a Community Improvement Plan (CIP) [For financial incentives for environmental sustainability]
  • Ensure sufficient funds and staff for GDS and CIP
  • Provide allowance for Climate Change Action Plan in 2020 budget
  • Update Cobourg’s Strategic Plan

There is no mention of how progress or achievement of targets should be measured.

Note that the SCCAC brought up the subject of planning for sustainability in an earlier planning discussion about a large development on King Street East (near Brook North) called “East Village” by Stalwood Homes.   (More details here)

Funding

  • Recommend “an allowance in the amount of $200,000 to hire additional staff to set up climate action initiatives approved by Council”.
  • Two consultants required for GDS and CIP
  • Staff required to handle Tannery District CIP, and Affordable Housing CIP
  • Climate Action Plan to be presented to Council Spring 2020 – after 2020 Budget is completed
  • May require deferral of some planned expenditures –  Kingston deferred $54M in other projects
  • It may require tax increases.

Minnie’s presentation is dramatic and finishes with:

As the current decision makers for Cobourg we ask that you act now to help ensure human survival.  (There are) 11,000 Scientists who declare a Climate Emergency with the statement that “We declare … clearly and unequivocally that planet Earth is facing a climate emergency,”
We ask that Cobourg Council do the same, and take immediate, aggressive action.

It will be interesting to see how this is received by Council.

Links

Minnie de Jong, SCCAC Presentation

Addendum – 25 November 2019

Response by Council at the Committee of the Whole Meeting where the above was presented.

Minnie de Jong
Minnie de Jong

At right is a photo of Minnie De Jong making her presentation.

The Councillor coordinator for Arts, Culture and Tourism, Adam Bureau was assigned to respond and moved a motion essentially agreeing with the Committee’s concerns but included different actions in his motion:

  1. That Council create a staff position on a one (1) year contract basis, under the supervision of the Chief Administrative Officer to develop a Request for Proposal (RFP) for the Integrated Community Sustainable Plan and that includes Green Development Standards (ICSP) and manage the project through to completion.
  2. Refer all costs associated with the contract position and Integrated Community Sustainability Plan (ICSP) to the 2020 budget deliberations and have Staff prepare a budget estimate for the January 2020 budget meeting.
  3. Update Council’s Strategic Plan to allow Staff to reprioritize other work commitments to ensure that staff resources will be sufficient to commence work on the Integrated Community Sustainability Plan prior to the scheduled start of 2021 as outlined in Council’s current, approved Strategic Plan.

This is one year earlier than specified by the Strategic Plan but is still not as fast as requested. However, Glenn McGlashon expressed doubt that the task could be done in time. Minnie de Jong later commented that the longer time required would no doubt be because the proposed ICSP (also called the Sustainability Plan) had a much broader scope – her comments about not being able to afford to wait were virtually ignored.

Addendum 5 December 2019

When this came to a vote at the regular Council meeting on 2 December, it was passed unanimously.  See the full motion here.

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John Green

Give global warming a chance.

https://youtu.be/7p88qvNmXX4

John Green

When it comes to “climate change” ..
I really think that many people dig their heals in and stand by their mission , no matter what. They simply don’t want to hear it. They won’t budge.They can’t budge. It would destroy their identity construct.
It has become their identity. It has become their personna. It has become their prestige. It has become their social life. It becomes their “calling”. And also, it ha$ become a way of making a comfortable little living, for many! Just think of the appeal … you can save the world, tell people what they must do, and make some serious coin at the same time!
Where do I sign up? Lol. Just joking, Not gonna happen, as the kids say.
It is a powerful agenda , that is for sure.

Frenchy

I really think that many people dig their heals in and stand by their mission , no matter what [and no matter what side of the argument they are on]. They simply don’t want to hear it. They won’t budge.They can’t budge. It would destroy their identity construct.
It has become their identity. It has become their personna. It has become their prestige. It has become their social life. It becomes their “calling”.

You could be talking about Minnie or Wally or yourself here. Some people on both sides of this argument become fanatical and HYSTERICAL.

John Green

Really?
Do you not think there is a great difference between one side and the other?
I listed motivations, so what would my motivations be? And could they compare to that of the climate alarmists?

Ok, now lets take your fanatic and hysteric point…

Alarmist: “We are going to suffer mass extinction!!”
Me: “No, relax, we are not. Here is why I am honestly convinced that is bunk and why you have been mislead”

Now … who is the fanatic? Who is the hysteric?

I totally stand by my post. Your rebuttle only serves to strengthen my point.

John Green

Education, not propaganda, is key to a truly informed decision…
A video such as this one below would have been helpful, for anyone, to make a more balanced and informed decision on anything to do with the “climate crisis” hysteria.
It’s very unfortunate that society is flooded by the corporate media, and from across the institutions, with non stop 24/7 climate alarmism. It is a very powerful agenda, and very effective, to be sure.
Yes It does get annoying to hear the same old tired talking points in support for radical alarmism, and often that shows in public forums such as this one.
I always try to see both sides of any argument, hopefully that is something that we all would do.

https://www.bitchute.com/video/rIBP8vKVf0M/

Keith Oliver

John. Either my comments on the need for respect and decorum in what passes here for debate were not clearly crafted, or you don’t get it. I was hopefully when I began to read your latest contribution … but then “climate crisis hysteria”, “climate alarmists”, “radical alarmists”? Why? Why? Do you and others not realize how much folks are turned off by this abuse? For some reason it may feel good but by doing so you undermine any modicum of credibility your arguments might have. I want to hear and consider all sides but not in the disrespectful manner you and others have done so in this blog. I’m old. I’ve seen alot, experienced alot, more than I ever bargained for, and what I’ve concluded is when presented with the possibility of harm, one in which a clear and widely accepted solution has not been created, you err on the side of caution. Doing so in this case will shift more of the responsibility onto individuals and away from government. In the meantime there is Germany, ruled forever by coalition governments, where negotiation and compromise is the key, has one of the highest standards of living in the world, that… Read more »

John Green

Keith,
Actually, I really do get it. Do you?
Many of the points that you make are covered in the video. Did you take the time to watch it?
Any information must be judged for credibility. I find Tony Heller to be very credible. He approaches the climate debate with hard science. He has the credentials and he comes across as being sincere.
But credibility is for people to judge for themselves, assuming that they are able to give fair hearing to both sides of the issue.

Ken Strauss

Keith, after rereading some of Ms. de Jong’s material, terms such as “climate alarmists” seem restrained, not abusive and show all due respect for her ideas. Consider a few of the comments taken directly from the article that she included in her presentation:
— “Raise the cost of a ton of carbon possibly as high $5,000 by 2030, a price they suggest may have to grow to $27,000 per ton by 2100.”
— “…in the northern latitudes heat waves will kill thousands each summer.”
— “eight million cases of dengue fever each year in Latin America alone”
— “Global grain yields could fall by as much as 50 percent”

If not “climate crisis hysteria” what is your suggested term?

John Green

KS ,
Exactly
The double standard is nothing less than astounding. How could anyone not “get it”?

Canuck Patriot

… but then “climate crisis hysteria”, “climate alarmists”, “radical alarmists”? Why? Why? Do you and others not realize how much folks are turned off by this abuse?

“Climate Emergency” and “Climate Crisis” are even greater turn-offs. Keith, the fact that someone disagrees is not being disrespectful.

Frenchy

You speak of propaganda and then offer a link to a video on bitchute? Have you done any research at all about the background of bitchute? Propaganda at its finest.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BitChute

Wally Keeler

You don’t know what you are talking about. You failed to comprehend what you read concerning Iranian protestors, whom you disgustingly called “pussies”. You know diddly about bitchute other than what an unreliable website says about it.

John Green

If you watched and judge it as propaganda then that is your call. I don’t agree. Let others judge for themselves. Surely you support hearing of both sides on an important issue such as this one.

John Green

It’s the content, not the source.
I could have obtained it from youtube. Would that have made it different?

Frenchy

I couldn’t find that video on YouTube, do you have a link?

Wally Keeler

Here ya go little Frenchy. I found it within a minute. https://youtu.be/rIBP8vKVf0M

John Green

That is the difference…
If someone provided new info that proved me wrong then I would want to see it. Because I want to know the truth. That is my motivation. I love the truth, the truth is so refreshing in these times of lies.

John Green

Heres another one, its got the frenchy youtube seal of approval, too.

The real lesson of Thanksgiving.
https://youtu.be/IeNKJGj7gIE

John Green

A message to climate alarmists…

https://youtu.be/PddKCRxONKE

Max

There was a poll 35 years ago where over 90% of people voted to ban hydrogen hydroxide for being a pollutant that caused trillions of dollars damage annually, causing decay of cars and ruining property.

But the poll was to illustrate how gullible misinformed people can be because hydrogen hydroxide is only water.

Keith Oliver

Max. You need to be careful about the stories you tell. What your anecdote proves is that when people are given to understand a connection between a cause and a harmful effect that is beyond their control, 90% vote for government action.

Miriam Mutton

Excellent point Keith. A recent example, the Lake Ontario water level matter and the plan developed by a joint agreement between two countries. Concerned citizens all around the lake have called upon their local and regional governments to do something.

Ken Strauss

I think that you have misunderstood Max’s point and Keith’s comment.

In the anecdote from Max, gullible and poorly informed people have been deceived (much like the current situation with global warming/ climate change) and are calling on government to “do something”.

In the case of Plan 2014 that you allude to, government has made a deliberate change that destroys property along the lake. Who other than government should the people ask to reverse the change that government made?

Max

Stories I tell. eh? I looked it up and there is a wikipedia page for it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dihydrogen_monoxide_parody
I remember now it was the April Fools section of the school newspaper

Ken Strauss

I remember now it was the April Fools section of the school newspaper.

Sadly we now have fools throughout the year.

Keith Oliver

What this blog reveals more than any of the others I have read over the past year, is the urgent need for rational and considered public debate, especially at this moment. We no longer have local newspapers with their letters-to-the-editor and spontaneous locally authored opinion pieces. Question Period in Parliament is about nothing but Politics. Social Media brings out the worst in people who say things they would otherwise never say in public. “Bang the Table” is about voting not debating and should not be a substitute for open public meetings. We elect representatives to represent us after gathering the facts, becoming better informed than we have time to do … then we tell them what to do. My fear is that we are destroying our unique, hard won, Canadian system of governing ourselves, and we’re doing this from within. Nothing represents this concern more forcefully than this blog. Perhaps it’s real value is in providing an example of what I mean. Climate Change and Sustainability have brought out extreme concerns including the fact that some regard them as fake. This blog has an unusually large number of participants, most of which are sceptical. At the same time, at the… Read more »

MCGA

Keith, l respect and support your call for respectful debate. That said, this blog attracts a handfull of outspoken participants who appear to revel in disagreement and excess. They are a small minority and act as a form of echo chamber, akin to Fox news, affording them an electronic platform to argue their position ad nauseam. It is both the right and cost of free speech. This reminds me of the difference between 1960s US TV debate shows and their moderators. On the side of reason was William F. Buckley, on the other, Alan Burke and Joe Pine. It was chaulk and cheese. One approach being academic debate on significant issues; the other, an early form of shallow reality TV that presaged the Jerry Springers of this world. I leave it to the readership to decide which side this blog’s participants belongs to and how seriously to take their theatrics.

Rational

It’s about making your point, but respectfully.

OMG

HOW DARE YOU!?! The people need a vote on whether we approve of these changes since we are paying for it with our sweat and sacrifice with no thanks accept to this make work program.

Getting Out Of Hand

There is some extremely sketchy conspiracy-theory level discourse happening in this thread. Some pretty alarming alt-right and borderline Q-anon buzzwords being posted and upvoted and responded to uncritically. The moderation around here needs to start extending beyond “Occasionally deleting personal attacks” or this site will change in reputation from “Old white conservatives” to “Wacky conspiracy nutbars” and I’m not sure what is served by that shift.

And yes, the obvious few of you that will respond to this in the way you respond to everything, that response has been pre-logged and noted. Just drop your downvote and move along.

Canuck Patriot

Well Council just swallowed an overdose of the green climate crisis Kool-Aid hook, line and sinker. There was no debate over the fake cry of a climate emergency and no public engagement on a contentious matter with costly economic consequences driven by a socialist agenda of power at the expense of the industrialized free world.

Council should resign en masse for being duped into the supporting the climate hysteria.

Excluding the public prior to calling a vote is an abuse of power.

Mrs. Anonymous

The irony of approving a six unit commercial building with a drive through at the same meeting where support was pledged for the so-called climate emergency further serves to hi-light the absurdity of this whole climate change situation.

If indeed we are facing “climate genocide…only worse” as the spokesperson proclaimed, I don’t see how hiring a consultant in Cobourg a year down the line will do squat for anyone with the exception of the consultant’s bank account.

Ken Strauss

Council should resign en masse for being duped into the supporting the climate hysteria.

Agreed! See https://youtu.be/tfbkLmEznyY?t=10465 for the sad details.

Max

smh …@This aggressive hubris of these chumps spending other people money; without doing there own homework

Max

When is the next election?

Canuck Patriot

November 2022

Max

Great. we are so screwed
Global Government UN Agenda 2030 steam rolling through with no resistance

Max

Yikes! Someone told me today the Chair of the Sustainability and Climate Change Advisory Committee (SCCAC) are going to heist taxpayers out of $200,000 dollars. Cui Bono how many local snakes are going to make off like bandit in this Climate Crisi Clownsworld Heist. Honk Honk!!! gimme some of dat free money….actually no I would not burden the youth into paying tax for this ripoff.

John Green

From Discover on Google https://globalnews.ca/news/6206214/international-joint-commission-plan-2014-springtime-flooding/

“Could ease springtime flooding” ?

This is loony tune “green” insanity. They could end this flooding if they managed the dam properly instead of talking craziness about climate change nonsense.

Wally Keeler

LISTEN TO THE SCIENTISTS https://www.thegwpf.com/european-parliament-told-there-is-no-climate-emergency/?utm_source=CCNet+Newsletter&utm_campaign=26eae22e67-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2019_11_25_01_42&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_fe4b2f45ef-26eae22e67-36480609&mc_cid=26eae22e67&mc_eid=0b8ced4572

Professor Berkhout represents the Climate Intelligence Foundation (Clintel), a Dutch group who have collected signatures from over 700 prominent scientists and professionals in support of the basic statement: there is no climate emergency. Signatories include Nobel laureate, Professor Ivar Giaever

Climate models have many shortcomings and are not remotely plausible as global policy tools. They blow up the effect of greenhouse gases such as CO2. In addition, they ignore the fact that enriching the atmosphere with CO2 can also be beneficial.

Max

Soros and his agents is not going to get away with this heist like Epstein and Prince Andrew did not get away with what they did when the tide turns

John Green
Canuck Patriot

Minnie de Jong is presenting an extremely biased, one-sided view of the climate change debate. She and her fellow members of the SCCAC have managed to blow any and all credibility by their alarmist demand that Council declare a climate emergency.

It also raises a question as to how an Advisory Committee of this nature could have been approved by Council in the first place. It’s composition does not represent both sides of the debate.

The suggestions to create a climate change CIP and to include $200,000 in the budget to hire staff to set up climate change initiatives demonstrate that Fantasyland is alive and thriving in Cobourg.

Council should bring this charade to a close once and for all. The recommendations should be rejected and the Committee should be disbanded.

Max

That is true. These Marxist climate criminals are probably just going to do what George Soros ordered despite the science or what we say, watch them, they are Tyrants. They fabricate a crisis and just like a circus put on a show and Honk Honk, they tax property owners.making our yoke too heavy to lift. Globalists should not be allowed in government.

Wally Keeler

SCCAC uncritically copied and pasted from the 11,000-signature of alleged scientists the following: “We declare … clearly and unequivocally that planet Earth is facing a climate emergency,” Then SCCAC ask that Cobourg Council do the same, and take immediate, aggressive action. One of the alleged signatories to the above petition is Professor Micky Mouse, Institute for Blind, Namibia. It seems as much quality control has gone into this survey as climate science. And the same for SCCAC for selecting and presenting such rubbish to Cobourg Town Council. Furthermore the petition was authored by William Ripple, a professor of ecology at the Forestry College at Oregon State University. This recent petition is a rehash of a similar petition he authored in 2017. The difference between the two petitions is that he gathered 15,000 ‘scientists’ for the 2017 petition but only 11,000 ‘scientists’ for the 2019 petition that SCCAC is flogging as science. A loss of 4,000 signatories, is a loss of confidence in Prof Ripple’s climate petition, but SCCAC is abysmally ignorant of this and still wants to peddle this fraud onto the Town council? If SCCAC is looking to pump up consensus numbers then note that ten years ago 31,487… Read more »

Max

Mickey Mouse and other non scientists signed the fraudulent petition of 11,000 fake scientists calling for taxation through deception. Rebel media reported the fakery of said petition and real scientists applauded Rebel media for telling the truth unlike the Liberal CBC which should be defunded.

jimq

Don’t forget this famous Canadian – an original founder of Greenpeace – https://youtu.be/UWahKIG4BE4 – for 100% truth and reality.

Max

Drama and science fiction has no place in local politics and in real climate science. Neither does feelings or emotional pleas to accept fake science that will destroy further the economic health of Canada. Nothumberland residents are targets of climate fraud when clearly the science does not support the climate crisis theory. Pictures of a sick polar bear who likely has an illness or could have swallowed a plastic bag and may not be able to eat cannot represent the planet’s atmospheric conditions.. Plastic litter in the ocean is a whole new issue and does not solely rest on the shoulders of local taxpayers and is no reason to persecute farmers or increase taxation.

Kevin

If I understand correctly, Minnie has not yet given her presentation and some have linked to websites that show she is wrong. Perhaps she is wrong. Maybe all we have to do is harness a team of reindeer to take us ‘over the North Pole’ to a land not yet discovered and bring back a lump of coal for us all. After all the earth is clearly flat as proven on various websites. Maybe we could listen to the presentation and find ways to reduce our impact on our immediate environment that will also allow us to live comfortably. Building energy efficient housing reduces operating costs for example. There is a limited amount of fossil fuel on this planet. It may take many more years to burn it all but it will happen. Then what? Maybe the flat earth websites will lead us to vast new lands that we can exploit. If not, then what is wrong with reducing our consumption of fossil fuels for future generations?

John Green

Why go to the pole for fantasy?
Why not just stay in the land of
Gullible greeniks easily duped by doomspeak?

I give credit to WK for a very accurate descriptor.

Ken Strauss

…and bring back a lump of coal for us all.

There may be a shortage of coal with China’s rapidly increasing consumption. For the latest update (published yesterday) from a reputable mining industry newsletter see https://www.mining.com/china-to-boost-coal-power-despite-global-plea-to-cut-emissions
As part of the summary:
“To meet internal needs, the world’s second largest economy has approved new 40 coal mines in the first nine months of this year. Last year China’s net additions to its coal fleet were 25.5GW, while the rest of the world saw a net decline of 2.8GW as more plants were closed than were built.”

John Green

The largest coal export ports, on the continent, are on the coast of BC. That’s greenik country. And yet no protests?
Why?
Globalists want to empower China. Its communist. They just have bring the west under control. Thats what climate change is about. Thats why there is such a glaring inconsistency.

John Green

https://inquinte.ca/story/ijc-deviates-from-controversial-plan-2014

Tens of thousands of people have had their homes flooded because of this “green” central planning. How many millions of dollars in damage? Maybe billions?
Do you really want more “planning” ?

Wally Keeler

A very good Canadian-made video of Michelle Stirling, Communications Manager for Friends of Science Society, aka “denier zealot” explains how foreign interests have carried out the diminishment of Alberta’s economy. Local socialists like to point to the pro-oil Koch Bros as villains; this video shows the multiple foreign billionaires who financed the subversion of Alberta’s oil industry, aided and abetted by gullible greeniks easily duped by doomspeak. Now they are manufacturing a so-called, “climate crisis”. https://youtu.be/67zIoJNpHMM

John Green

Good “denier zealot” video.
It’s literally a crying shame what is being done to Alberta and therfore Canada. Canada is being divided and controlled.

“gullible greeniks easily duped by doomspeak”
Very accurate.

Wally Keeler

I call for the SCCAC to recommend the elimination or reduction in frequency in which Cobourg’s parks lawns are mowed using fossil fuel. It is not healthy to the environment when lawns are mowed. The US Environmental Protection Agency has this to say about gas-powered lawn mowers. Each weekend, about 54 million Americans mow their lawns, using 800 million gallons of gas per year and producing tons of air pollutants. Garden equipment engines, which have had unregulated emissions until the late 1990’s, emit high levels of carbon monoxide, volatile organic compounds and nitrogen oxides, producing up to 5% of the nation’s air pollution and a good deal more in metropolitan areas. According to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), a new gas powered lawn mower produces volatile organic compounds and nitrogen oxides emissions air pollution in one hour of operation as 11 new cars each being driven for one hour. the EPA estimates that over 17 million gallons of fuel, mostly gasoline, are spilled each year while refueling lawn equipment. That’s more than all the oil spilled by the Exxon Valdez, Every year. Gas mowers emit hydrocarbons and oxides of nitrogen (the principle ingredients of smog), particulate matter (damaging to… Read more »

Miriam Mutton

Good info Wally. Here in Cobourg, by-laws regarding a ban on smoking in certain areas as well as a ban on cosmetic use of pesticides were enacted before the province passed provincial legislation on both items. I also recall how local advocates, including our local politicians, on both issues were treated (not well by some) during the times the local by-laws were created. On the use of polluting gas mowers …who sets the regulations, who builds the machines and who buys them? Lots of responsibility all around. (Recall how a demand by retail giant Wal-Mart to its suppliers to reduce packaging to save on storage space and handling costs e.g. concentrated laundry detergent etc., was even lauded by environmentalists because the move had a big impact) As for mowing and other maintenance in our local parks, perhaps sharing with the public the approach by operations staff to care for the various categories of public parklands may be helpful to local citizens. (A recommendation from the 2013 Parks and Recreation Master Plan study, btw) It is my observation that in our parks, generally, lawn maintenance has a schedule possibly to balance costs with results. However, does the Town still get complaints… Read more »

John Green

Would not be too surprised if Exxon Valdez was no accident. Too strategic and convenient for the “green” agenda. But I do not claim to know. Regardless, great “green” strides were made by it.

JimT

OK, but remember that tall grass harbours the ticks that carry Lime disease and other such pestilences besides. Might be a small price to pay to reduce the incidence of serious disease here in our little town.

John Green
John Green
Miriam Mutton

One of the committee recommendations is to create a green development standard, solutions utilizing energy efficiencies among other things. (As a side note, being able to afford to operate a home is part of affordable housing, too). Consider this example. In BC there is the Energy Step Code for building beyond the standard code requirements, see https://energystepcode.ca/for-local-governments/ . Interesting approach, an incremental approach. Provide the tool kit for local municipalities and make it optional (for now). The choice is there … want to be a resilient sustainable community with a future?

Max

DEBUNKING EVERY CLIMATE ARGUMENT WITH GEOLOGIST TONY HELLER
https://www.bitchute.com/video/rIBP8vKVf0M/

It is clear as day, we are watching a conspiracy to destroy the wealth of Canadians. The tentacles of this conspiracy is not local but there are local players. Charlatans who are conspiring in tandem with their fellows in districts all over the country doing anti-Canadian activities.

John Green

Tony Heller is a voice for reason in these times of insanity. He is a breath of fresh air.
I love his videos where he simply shows the beauty of nature accompanied by classical music in contrast with the ugliness of the lies and manipulation of the politics of climate change. He is truly a man who appreciates nature.
I know that to many people he is a “denier” and in their conditioned minds he does not “care about breathing clean air”
But, they will come around, in time.

Ken Strauss

There have been some great links to rational discussion of “climate change” posted here. Thanks!

I would like to recommend https://www.thegwpf.org/content/uploads/2018/10/Lindzen-AnnualGWPF-lecture.pdf
This is a lecture by Richard Lindzen, retired MIT Professor Emeritus of Atmospheric Physics. This lecture includes a short discussion of the evil machinations of Ontario’s own Maurice Strong (former head of Ontario Hydro and widely acclaimed as the creator of global warming) and a plausible explanation for how seemingly intelligent people can be easily deceived by scams.

Wally Keeler

Good one Ken.

Richard S. Lindzen was Alfred P. Sloan Professor of Meteorology at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology until his retirement in 2013. He is the author of over 200 papers on meteorology and climatology and is a member of the US National Academy of Sciences and of the Academic Advisory Council of GWPF.

I followed Greta Thunberg’s advice to check the science, and as a consequence I found lots of authentic accomplished scientists with decades of research and education pertaining to climate matters. These are the scientists that the abysmally ignorant call “denier zealots”

Wally Keeler

About ten years ago during the municipal election, Sustainable Cobourg held an all-candidates meeting at the Cobourg Public Library. I rode my bike 8 blocks to attend the meeting. I noticed that almost everyone else drove/rode to the Sustainable Cobourg meeting in a vehicle using an internal combustion machine. Donna Todd was the only candidate who had walked to the meeting.

Will any of the greeniks who attend the COW meeting on Monday live up their own credo to minimize carbon footprints by walking or biking to their meeting? And how many Town Councillors will arrive using an internal combustion machine? It is a small effort to display their commitment to decrease carbon emissions.

All of the members of the Sustainability and Climate Change Advisory Committee should demonstrate their commitment by walking or biking to all of their future meetings amongst themselves and with others. Unless they want to be regarded as hypocrites. All members of the SCCAC and their ilk should walk their talk.

Will Minnie de Jong walk her talk on Monday? Discerning minds will be watching, perhaps video-documenting.

eastender

Love to walk, but, well, the politicians have saddled us with daylight savings time, so it’s too dark to walk, especially since we still don’t
have sidewalks in my neighborhood. So, like Canute I will contemplate futility of trying to stop the tide.

Ken Strauss

Daylight saving time is no longer in effect. A better excuse is that the street lighting is too poor to see your way due to a scam relating to LuxLite. See https://web.archive.org/web/20130602095606/http://luxlite.com/ for a video of local politicians bragging about wasting $1.5M of taxpayer money.

John Green

The US departure from the Paris agreement is huge. It can not be overstated. It was not part of the plan! The globalists are desperate. People don’t realise how far along we were to global socialism under the guise of Climate Change. The globalists were certain that Hilary would win. They used all of their power to see to it that she did. But, they were devestated. The good guys saw to it that election fraud was kept in check. Now they are trying to overthrow Trump, but It’s not going happen. The trump party came into all of the intelligence when he took office. He has it all. It was supposed to be hillary who took over and now the globalist deep state is freaking. You can see them freaking since they still have a lock on the corporate media. They are grasping at straws.They are actually exposing themselves. It’s a clown show. Trump ,like any head of state, is only the front man. It is who is behind the leader that counts, be they good or bad. They be good for a change. I know I know orange man bad, right? Ok whatever, Lets see what happens. These… Read more »

Catherine

Thank Q and Q+ ……. WWG1WGA ……interesting times indeed!!!

John Green

A kindred spirit.
😊
Get the popcorn and enjoy the show.

Max

Cui bono ? (/kwiː ˈboʊnoʊ/), literally “to whom is it a benefit ?”, is a Latin phrase about identifying crime suspects. It expresses the view that crimes are oftentimes committed to benefit their perpetrators, especially financially. Which party benefits may not be obvious, and there may be a scapegoat….Wikipedia
Who has a dog is this race?
Who is going to receive the stolen “Climate money”?
Who is going to appropriate the farmland? United Nations Agenda 21 allows globalist to appropriate private from false theory; more like an elaborate plan to commit fraud.
Who locally will benefit from Cobourg Climate Robbery. We will find out who speaks the loudest to justify plundering Northumberland county residents and we must take note of their real motivation. eg.. Jobs, property, wealth and control.
We are witnessing the greatest crime of the century of climate fraud parasites taking the lifeblood from the hardworking residents of our county and those who are denied employment with a living wage income .

MCGA

The positions and arguments posted on this topic validate Hardin and Ostrom (one got a Noble Prize for the work). Hardin was pessimistic that the commons would be abused and lost while Ostrom saw mechanisms to cooperation with resulting environmental stability. The key factor in each view was trust. In its absence, failure. In this case it begins with trust in the data that supports certain actions. If you distrust the data, you are likely to distrust the conclusions. The opposite is also true. I am not smart enough to say which science and which resulting conclusion is correct. In the absence of adequate hard knowledge I default, as I wrote before, to the Scout law: ” be wise in the use of your resources.” Imposing rules of behavior and group expenses, without earning the trust and support of the majority of the community, is likely to fail. In my first course in moral philosophy the professor opened with this question: “Why is it, in some countries, people remove their empty beer cans from the beach?” Of course, in Cobourg, we are prohibited from drinking beer on the beach. Personal responsibility vs. Free riding vs. Imposed rules of behavior; all… Read more »

Miriam Mutton

Good piece MCGA. In addition to earning trust, a local elected government also has a responsibility to both listen and lead. And to lead, our local representatives have to be also aware of what is happening regionally, nationally and globally. The Federation of Canadian Municipalities (FCM) is a good source of information for local governments, and I am impressed with initiative by Council’s own SCCAC. To earn trust, part of the process may be to identify what is being done well locally already in addition to pointing out where there is need for significant change. And social norms may be part of culture (e.g removing empty beer cans, or, not spitting on public sidewalks). Culture can change too. I heard my young nieces scold their mother for not separating out the recyclables as they learned in school! Being wise in the use of resources … I would add …perhaps the full cycle cost of the way we have been doing many things is finally being fully recognized and the cost of doing business calculated.

Walter Luedtke

This just in:
“Pressure mounts on Canada to fulfill its promise to end all subsidies to fossil-fuel producers, and as European banks flee the sector altogether.
Sweden’s central bank said Wednesday it had sold its Alberta-government issued bonds because it will no longer invest in assets held by governments or companies with large climate footprints.
A day later, the European Investment Bank, the non-profit lending institution of the European Union, announced it will not invest in fossil-fuel projects after 2021.
Canada’s energy industry is reeling from the departure of massive amounts of capital, with $30 billion divested in the last three years, even as global demand for oil is forecast to grow.
The International Energy Agency said this week that global demand will grow by about one million barrels a day over the next five years, but plateau by 2030 as the use of more efficient vehicles and electric cars begins to take hold.” CBC
Not looking good for the coal oil folks.

Max

The globalist international bankers are headed to jail anyways as well as their accomplices. These criminals are not going to get away with treason and fraud, the world is sick of the one percent. The gavel will drop and the rats will scurry away, but justice will find them .

Wally Keeler

Not looking good for Canadians, Walter. The consequences of such mass flight of capital will affect the lives of all Canadians, not just the “coal oil folks” aka “denier zealots” that you hold in contempt and hatred. Socialists hate capital, and that is why Walter proudly applauds the mass capital flight and the economic diminishment of all Canadians, not just the “coal oil folks” aka “denier zealots“. The Luedtke cheerleader is a puppet of the Soros funded anti-Canada fuel industry in favour of the American fuel industry. That is where the capital is going, where it can be put to productive use. What a betrayal of Canada to foreign interests. Pin a green Greta medal on his chest.

Ken Strauss

The International Energy Agency said this week that global demand will grow by about one million barrels a day over the next five years, but plateau by 2030 as the use of more efficient vehicles and electric cars begins to take hold.

Most would be happy to be in a business with increasing demand for the next ten years and stable demand afterwards. Just ask our downtown merchants or the owner of the mall.

JimT

Bear in mind that Sweden selling its Alberta-government issued bonds does not deprive Alberta of the capital, since their only choice is to sell them to another buyer somewhere in the world, possibly at a discount.
The bonds still exist and Alberta still has the capital it originally got by issuing the bonds.

Catherine

Minnie de Jong’s presentation is asking Cobourg Council to “take immediate, aggressive action”. That statement alone sets off cautionary “alarm bells” for me…..especially after listening to this video interview below (and others videos from comments on this site).
Starting at the 5:53 mark, is the radio segment with Dr. Nils-Axel Morner, former head of the ‘Paleo-Geophysics and Geodynamics Department’ in Stockholm, who was on the United Nation’s inter-governmental panel on ‘Climate Change’.
Video link from Sky News Australia (June 2019) = https://youtu.be/ViY2J3LPgN4

Max

Good video Catherine. Australians have been aware of the International globalist global warming / climate change crisis hoax. These con artists use tax to steal our money from our wallets and we know it and this is going to stop. To the south the Kangaroo court impeaching phrase is Quid pro quo, but this global warming fraud analysis is Cui bono – Who benefits? Those stealing tax, private property and preferential treatment are going to be found guilty of pushing this fraud.

Wally Keeler

https://youtu.be/EhyY9pX8Lfw
Carbon tax makes Canada a dupe

Max

I am embarrassed to be associated with the leftists in Canada. We are dupes. Here we are discussing volunteering to be suckers for the Global Elite Deep State.to sheer us down to poverty. This gets down to the bigger question of this so called climate crisis is “Who benefits in this crime of conspiracy to commit fraud?”
Here is all the proof you need to know from an actual physicist. Must see if you doubt.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zrejG-WI3U

Mark

If you do not believe in climate change , do you believe in breathing clean air
Since they closed down the coal generation plants in Ontario, there have been no smog alerts in Cobourg in the summer
I think that is a good thing

Max

The state of the art environmentally clean technology has the coal emmissions scrubbed so clean it is mostly carbon dioxide and water coming out of the coal fired generating plants; carbon dioxide is not a pollutant, it is the building block of life.

Frenchy

So does that mean that Wally’s 700 Chinese coal fired generating stations are a good thing?

Max

Ask Mzkenna who wants to tax our tiny 3% of the world emmissions. She is a spokesperson against carbon emmissions yet she is ok endorsing China to continue to expell carbon into the same atmosphere Cobourg is supposed to repair.

Frenchy

Who cares how much CO2 they produce, you and Wally are telling me this is a good thing.
Building block of life, right? Some is good, more is better?

John Green

That post is about as bad as it gets for making a twisted argument. You must know that your post is a complete logical fallacy.
The point was that there is a blatant inconsistency by climate alarmists when it comes to China verses Canada. It is greens who are buying into the climate change nonsense… it is not your opponent’s who are. You can not have it both ways.

John Green

Hardly worth a response, but what the heck….

Yeah, that’s it einstein, you got it, the “deniers” don’t believe in clean air. Busted!

JimT

Have we ever had any kind of “smog alert” in Cobourg in the summer?
Ever?
Not in my recollection.

Miriam Mutton

http://www.airqualityontario.com/history/aqi_advisories_stats.php

This may help. We would be in the Belleville Quinte Northumberland stats. Interesting how no place had any smog advisory in 2014 and there appear to be no records until a change to air quality index.

Max

Oh look…the Climate Taxer Catherine McKenna took SNC-Lavalin on a clean technology trade mission to China to help the communist giant continue to use coal.
https://www.bitchute.com/video/1T_5w3eEb_8/
But Canadian climate taxpaying peasants are having there local municipal government ready to soak the life out of there own communities. We must be in a weird socialist hell for electing a blatant hypocrite.

Max

Obviously the globalists don’t think climate is an issue when they are building gigantic generators emiting more Carbon Dioxide than every Canadian in Canada. But Cobourg is going to save the world. give me a breack. Who is going to profit from this tax!!??!!

Ben

“I try to enjoy the show and avoid too much mud. But I do get that the NPC useful idiots can be very annoying. Believe me.”

Obviously written by a useful idiot who loves to wallow in the mud – what a hypocrite!!

John Green

You are being a case in point.

John Green

The thing is that the biggest storm, on the horizon, is the storm that the globalist left is soon to be engulfed in, and for all to see.
We are talking major tsunami. It is a global storm, but look south , the storm has already started.
That is probably as significant as any other factor when it comes to this global socialist climate change agenda. Or more like the storm is thee factor, for this is definitely not the kind of storm that the climate change masters had in mind. It is going to shed a lot of light on the big picture.

By the way, I’ve always enjoyed a good storm. Like a big snowstorm, or a thunderstorm, and how peaceful and pleasant it is afterwards. I think that many people enjoy a good storm, too, and that includes the well intentioned, but unwitting , hyper-environmentally conscious types.
It is truly immoral to take advantage of peoples good intents. So, don’t let them.

Max

Ya the hammer is coming down on the left and t think it is great. The Deep State Left are getting caught for their crimes they thought we were all naive, lol. Greta should go back to school and take calculus and figure out she was lied to by her globalist handlers.

Walter Luedtke

Thank you Ms De Jong, Chair of the SCCAC, for your striking presentation to Council
In the current atmosphere of insult and invective, as vividly exemplified by this blog, it takes courage and commitment for you and your Committee to carry out your responsibilities.
Courage that many climate-skeptic posters, who hide behind pseudonyms, don’t have.
Thank you again.

Wally Keeler

It takes courage to be a dissenter, rather than as a shill for the wind turbine industry and its everlasting thirst for more and more tax subsidies. It takes courage to protest against the greatest carbon emitter on the planet — China, but none of Canada’s green ilk will do that, even when China announces they will build hundreds and hundreds of new coal plants around the world. That would take real courage.

During the 80s Cold War, the streets were filled with peaceniks. They stupidly thought of themselves as courageous and brave to stand against the US war machine. But I went underground and met with elements of the Group to Establish Trust Between the USA and USSR and others who had been emboldened by the Helsinki Accords. These were east bloc peaceniks, arrested and tortured by the KGB, Stasi, SBB, etc and thrown out of their country. They had courage. I found that the Canadian peaceniks were spineless to meet with their brothers in peace from the other side, for ideological reasons.

The insults and invective goes both ways Walter, seeing as how you deliberately fail to see that. So put your self-righteousness back and zip up.

John Green

WK As I’m sure you know, but they don’t seem to …
The biggest communists were/are within the US e$tablishment. They used the domestic left for their famous ideological march through the institutions. And did they march!
They are/were comrades, or fellow travellers. ( I won’t say useful idiots because that is too harsh )

Ken Strauss

Which part — useful or idiot — do you consider too harsh?

John Green

Well, I kind of think that the use of the term “useful idiot” is over-used.
I do think that it is a very valid term and that it would be very helpful if the left would acknowledge that one of their founders, named V. Lenin , famously described the legions of lefty dupes to the communist goal, as such.
But , I think it is more productive to be less combative in general.
And also, I think that global socialism is toast, so I try to avoid the mud fights.
I try to enjoy the show and avoid too much mud. But I do get that the NPC useful idiots can be very annoying. Believe me.

Millenial

Wow at these comments. If ever there was an appropriate time to use this it is now….

OK BOOMER

Wally Keeler

OK BOOMER — the mating call of the ignorant.

Mike

If you believe the radical rant of people like Minnie, the world should have ended 50 years ago.
NO taxpayers money for this nonsense.!

Wally Keeler

https://stopthesethings.com/2019/11/19/game-over-german-wind-industry-in-freefall-turbine-makers-sack-thousands-in-mass-layoffs/
“The manufacturers of turbines and solar panels are dropping like flies, as subsidies are rolled back across Europe. So-called ‘green’ jobs are a case of easy come, easy go. The wind and solar ‘industries’ that gave birth to those jobs simply can’t survive without massive and endless subsidies, which means their days are numbered. With the axe being taken to subsidies across the globe, their ultimate demise is a matter of when, not if.”

Walter Luedtke

https://hudsonreporter.com/2019/11/21/doubling-down-on-wind-power/
Doubling down on wind power in New Jersey.
Gov. Murphy announces an executive order for greater offshore wind generation.
New Jersey is warming at a faster rate than almost any other state,” Tammy Murphy said. “The shorelines are vanishing, we have harmful algal blooms, rain comes in torrential downpours, and the summers are blazing hot. All of this will cost New Jersey a projected ten billion dollars yearly, and it will be a reality faced by our children as they become adults.”

Wally Keeler

Gov. Murphy announces an executive order for greater offshore wind generation.

The article is worth reading, because it displays no information indicating that this is what the people of New Jersey want. It is the will of bureaucraps. It’s massively subsidized by taxpayers whether they like it or not.

Wally Keeler

Once lavished with huge incentives, the German wind industry is being hit hard after the government recently ended the huge subsidies that were once aimed at expanding the installation of wind energy capacity. Power grid operators had been struggling to keep the grid stable due to erratic feed-in and the subsidized feed-in of wind energy caused German electricity prices to become among the most expensive worldwide.

And Walter Luedtke wants this failed situation to be imposed on the Canadian grid.

John Green

Yeah, compare Germany to France. The French stayed with, and expanded, their nuclear. Which is humming along nicely.
With no ghg, not that ghg is a real thing
Germany went full retard green power. Its a disaster. Just like it is everywhere.
Germans being Germans wanted to lead in technology of the green kind as they do in general. And ,to be “good” global citizens and all the politics with that. Germany is a key figure to global socialism in terms of the EU, the EU is a stepping stone.
Of course the socialist monstrosity know as the EU is falling apart, just like green energy is. Another of many reasons why it very much does not look good for globalism. Thank God.

Walter Luedtke

Hydrogen production with renewable power is seen by many countries as an essential tool to decarbonise the economy. The UK and Germany, the world’s two leading offshore wind power nations, have started to sound out how they could combine their expertise in one of the most productive renewable energy sources to master large-scale hydrogen generation at sea.
“Socialism” on the march!

Wally Keeler

Note the health of the Socialist Republic of Venezuela, a fossil fuel exporter, where the vast majority of its people are starving under threat of lethal violence by the socialist government. The socialist government produces oil in it most raw and dirty form with no environmental laws compared to the vastly cleaner production of oil in capitalist Canada. The socialist oil of Venezuela is produced by near slave labour without labour protections whereas capitalist Canada’s oil is produced with highly-paid and top skilled labour.

And then there is that other socialist country called China. The socialist government of China announces that it will hundreds and hundreds of socialist-built coal plants all over the world. This is socialism on the march and Walter and his ilk applaud this.

All too often socialism means more and more and tighter and tighter control of human beings for their own good whether they like it or not.

cornbread

Added to this will be the govt. subsidies for the recycling of lithium-ion batteries as they are collected from the government subsidized cars. It’s the new social program at work. Wait until gasoline is $2.00 a litre including about $1.25 in taxes. Wonder just where the tax revenue will be spent.

Ken Strauss

Wonder just where the tax revenue will be spent.

Buying votes? With a Minister of Middle-Class Prosperity and Minister of Diversity and Inclusion and Youth there will be ample demand for inducements.

Walter Luedtke

In the current UK election, polls suggest that two-thirds of the country believes the climate crisis is the biggest issue facing humankind. Global warming will be a central issue – it’s even being called “the climate election”.
In the US and to some degree in Canada, opponents and critics of the scientific consensus over man-made global warming have been much more vocal and influential.
Climate-skeptic think tanks and their publications are bankrolled by powerful corporate interests such as those of the Koch brothers.
But there is also an ideological dimension in stymieing climate action: the Republican Party is committed to small government and free enterprise as good things in themselves regardless of the environmental consequences.
Furthermore, the American way of life believes in expanding prosperity and consumption forever. Far-reaching lifestyle changes in the form of higher gas prices or reduced mobility are unthinkable.
But even in the US climate change is as much a topic of public discourse as abortion.

Wally Keeler

“In the current UK election, polls suggest that two-thirds of the country believes the climate crisis is the biggest issue facing humankind.” Two thirds of the country is duped. A poll is unscientific, It’s all about belief. A poll of Indians and Chinese would reveal widespread support for fossil fuels. A poll of a small island people is insignificant compared to the billions and billions suffering from energy poverty. The green activists couldn’t care less about those billions living in energy poverty “opponents and critics of the scientific consensus over man-made global warming have been much more vocal and influential.” They should be more vocal and influential about stopping the vast increase in emissions from the hundreds of coal plants being built around the world by the totalitarian dictatorshit of China. The local green activists aid and abet China in their development of hundreds of coal plants with their silence.. “Climate-skeptic think tanks and their publications are bankrolled by powerful corporate interests such as those of the Koch brothers.” The so-called green movement is bankrolled by powerful corporate interests, especially Chinese, and by the likes of Soros and his ilk. “there is also an ideological dimension in stymieing climate action:… Read more »

Ken Strauss

But even in the US climate change is as much a topic of public discourse as abortion.

Unlike in Canada where pro/con public discussions of climate change and abortion are both largely verboten. Consider our recent election debates.

Doug Weldon

Wow, I can’t believe some of the comments below. you live on a different planet than I.
There is still enough sand on the Cobourg beach for a bunch of you to go and bury your heads.
Hurry up before it is all washed away!

CiW

Consider how much GHG is emitted as you sit at a stop light or a stop sign. One huge benefit of roundabouts is that, usually, the traffic keeps moving. Another advantage is that, when/if a collision occurs, it is not head-on but from the side, on an angle.

I know that some people have no use for roundabouts, but use them for a while and you’ll love them. The environmental and safety advantages are abundant.

I can think of several intersections where a roundabout would be a good idea: King-William-Ontario Streets, Elgin-Ontario, D’Arcy-Elgin, Elgin-William-Burnham ( please! ), D’Arcy-Kerr ( future ), every Cty Rd.2 intersection between Cobourg and Port Hope, Albert-Ontario-?, Elgin-Division, the exit from and entrance to hwy. 401 on Cty Rd.45 just north of Chris Garrett bridge. I’m sure that there are many more good locations.

JimT

Unfortunately, the roads at those intersections are much wider than D’Arcy Street so a roundabout can’t be built without removing large, established buildings and turning too much of our valuable green spaces into pavement and vehicles.

cornbread

If our mayor and council bow to Minnie and her “cause” with additional taxpayer money/increases or reductions in current projects to put extra funds into new climate change programs, they should all resign and call for a new election.

Minnie, my best advice to you is to take your SCCAC and head out to China and India as there is much room for improvement to their air quality.

Wally Keeler

The totalitarian dictatorshit of China (the world’s greatest emitter) is planning to construct hundreds of new coal plants at home and abroad, and Minnie and her green ilk cannot bring themselves to take a stand against the gross climate crimes of China. All those Chinese emissions eventually find their way over Canada contaminating our nation, yet Canadian environmentalists say and do nothing. How pathetic is that?

Walter Luedtke

China going green is one of four current energy revolutions that have global significance. The others are the emergence of the United States as the world’s largest oil producer, via shale oil; solar energy’s move toward becoming the cheapest energy source available; and the use of renewables, electric vehicles, and digitization to make electricity production cleaner. Fortune Magazine.
And perhaps you can make your points, Wally, with constant references to feces,
Reminds one of your poetic description Frances Gage’s sculpture in Victoria Park as ‘doggy-do’.

Wally Keeler

China going green is one of four current energy revolutions that have global significance.”

Forget Walter Luedtke’s dated and ideologically-based argument. This is what is happening right now in China. And yes it is a dictatorshit, regardless of your oh so delicate sensibilities. https://www.thegwpf.com/chinas-coal-secret-revealed-china-is-building-hundreds-of-new-coal-power-plants/

Reminds one of your poetic description Frances Gage’s sculpture in Victoria Park as ‘doggy-do’.”

The typical insult, invective and smear tactics of Walter Luedtke who admonishes others for their insults and invective and he will go wildly off topic to enable a smear. Very noble Walter. Now I know what you are made of.

cornbread

To the 17 people who have a thumbs down to my comment, you should really have a good look at what you believe in. Go where the problem is. Weak mayor and not too bright councillors.

Catherine

For a variety of articles and perspectives on the topic of ‘climate change’, some may be interested in viewing the website http://www.climatesciencenews.com (with discernment).

Frenchy

A variety of perspectives?

Catherine

…..my word “variety” intending to offer possible relevance to the subject in relation to solar orbit (and including variations in radiation, Earth’s axial tilt, rotational orientation, orbital eccentricity, etc.); vs. carbon-dioxide-related; vs. differing climate software models; vs. economic and political agendas; vs. modification or manipulation by geoengineering (i.e. land-based, sea-based, orbital HAARP); etc.

Frenchy

Sorry, I took perspective as ”a particular attitude toward or way of regarding something; a point of view.”. And I took variety as “the quality or state of being different or diverse; the absence of uniformity, sameness, or monotony”
I was looking forward to reading arguments from both sides of the climate change debate, but obviously not on that website.

Catherine

That’s fine Frenchy…..I didn’t post for the purpose of debate …..I consider myself an “information enthusiast” (especially when it comes to matters of “consciousness”)……I like encouraging people to be mindful of what resonates, or doesn’t, within themselves (personal perceptions can shift, as belief systems shift). From my understanding thus far, for thousands/millions/billions (???) of years, climate conditions have varied dramatically, and even created drastic abnormalities….and the planets/solar systems/ galaxies have adapted and evolved. In my opinion, what is happening worldwide regarding the noticeable shifts in climate and weather patterns, is currently presenting great opportunities for positive changes to emerge, and for human creativity to shine.

MCGA

This is one of those situations where I stumble between different thought processes. Part of me remembers that as an old Boy Scout, I am supposed to “be wise in the use of my resources.” Another part reflects on Kant’s concept of the “tragedy of the commons.” And yet another assesses the impact of China and India and concludes that we are not even a rounding error in terms of environmental impact. In the end, I am inclined to resist mandating how others act and imposing rules and limits, with their related costs of enforcement, upon my community. So, I will revert to my Scout training and try to be environmentally wise without inflicting Scout law on anyone else. Maybe that is how our Town Council should approach this?

Old Sailor

The residents of large cities in India and China have to wear masks to breath because India and China do not care a whim about air pollution or climate change. Many other larger than Canada countries including the USA care even less about pollution and climate change.

So are we Cobourgians supposed to invest limitless sums of money to make up for those enormous countries that care not at all about breathing clean air? I think Minnie should make a warm drink, fasten her seat belt and turn on Sesame Street and lower her blood pressure. Or visit the countries that should really help solve the problem and bang her drum there.

Max

Correct, even if all of Canada had no “carbon footprint” it would not change the weather. This is robbery anyways, the Greenhouse effect is a fairy tale Second Law of Thermodynamics Versus the Greenhouse Effect? Please….. here is a comment a scientist wrote although without revealing his name debunked the Greenhouse effect, probably because he didn’t want the left-wing fanatics to ruin his career The atmospheric greenhouse effect, an idea that authors trace back to the traditional works of Fourier 1824, Tyndall 1861, and Arrhenius 1896, and which is still supported in global climatology, essentially describes a fictitious mechanism, in which a planetary atmosphere acts as a heat pump driven by an environment that is radiatively interacting with but radiatively equilibrated to the atmospheric system. According to the second law of thermodynamics such a planetary machine can never exist. Nevertheless, in almost all texts of global climatology and in a widespread secondary literature it is taken for granted that such mechanism is real and stands on a firm scientific foundation. In this paper the popular conjecture is analyzed and the underlying physical principles are clarified. By showing that (a) there are no common physical laws between the warming phenomenon in… Read more »

Ken Strauss

Max, please provide the proper attribution: https://arxiv.org/abs/0707.1161 for the abstract and all 115 pages are at https://arxiv.org/pdf/0707.1161.pdf

Wally Keeler

Thanks for this Ken.

Max

Bravo for finding the source,Gerhard Gerlich, Ralf D. Tscheuschner
(Submitted on 8 Jul 2007 (v1), last revised 4 Mar 2009
It still doesn’t change the facts. Actually if was another professor at Cornell who referred to this report.where I heard it first but I just found that here.I never claimed I wrote it myself, but we are in a discussion https://scienceblogs.com/intersection/2007/08/06/second-law-of-thermodynamics-v
The Greenhouse effect is a 1824 fantasy still being used in modern suppressed science so the globalists can enslave us taking away our energy and taxing us for a 196 year old assumption.
Let’s mention the the fact our source of climate heat is the sun. and the sun is a variable star. Presently we are in a solar minimum I believe in the solar cycles and back in the Inconvenient Truth production.was at a maximum.
Then the proximity of Jupiter, Saturn and Mars with their gravity tugs on Earth pulling Earth’s orbit farther from the sun changing our climate. No tax dollar or local policy will change our climate.

Max

Here we go with the new smear campaign against Gerhard Gerlich and, Ralf D. Tscheuschner.

Miriam Mutton

http://rabett.blogspot.com/2008/02/all-you-never-wanted-to-know-about.html
Here, an online debate about the above. It goes on for pages. Thanks to Ken for pointing out the source of the G&T paper.
And here a rebuttal, http://arxiv.org/abs/0802.4324, to the G&T paper.

Ken Strauss

There is a rebuttal to the rebuttal at https://arxiv.org/abs/0904.2767 And so it goes. The science is certainly not settled regardless of what certain zealots may say.

Winnie

I agree, nothing we do will change the weather. We can continue to clean up pollution etc. but nothing Canada does will make one iota of difference to the weather. Polar bears are not going extinct, It’s all hysteria and chicken little stuff, we should be building and adapting to changing conditions instead of running around clucking.

Max

Exposing The Bogus “97% Consensus” Claim Over Climate Change ‘Science’
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/exposing-bogus-97-consensus-claim-over-climate-change-science

Dr, Nakamara, a top world Climate Scientist says the Climate Crisis is nonsense.
He mentions that all the computer climate models are inaccurate and vital ocean data is missing or misrepresented.

For instance weather stations on islands in the pacific have thermometers close to hot tarmac runways misrepresenting temperatures a mile out to sea and these points are supposed to influence calculations of large areas.
Climate Change Crisis is a political movement not an actual coming catastrophic and there is no need for alarmism. looks to me some bureaucrats want carbon tax kickbacks,

jimq

I love this posting from greengrass back in September re this silly new religion – Read to end – – – The Arctic Ocean is warming up, icebergs are growing scarcer and in some places the seals are finding the water too hot, according to a report to the Commerce Department yesterday from Consulate, at Bergen, Norway. Reports from fishermen, seal hunters and explorers all point to a radical change in climate conditions and hitherto unheard-of temperatures in the Arctic zone. Exploration expeditions report that scarcely any ice has been met as far north as 81 degrees 29 minutes. Soundings to a depth of 3,100 meters showed the Gulf Stream still very warm. Great masses of ice have been replaced by moraines of earth and stones, the report continued, while at many points well known glaciers have entirely disappeared. Very few seals and no white fish are found in the eastern Arctic, while vast shoals of herring and smelts which have never before ventured so far north, are being encountered in the old seal fishing grounds. Within a few years it is predicted that due to the ice melt the sea will rise and make most coastal cities uninhabitable. I… Read more »

Max

That is gold

JimT

Sure looks to be authentic, based on all the various links to it on the internet, e.g.
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/03/16/you-ask-i-provide-november-2nd-1922-arctic-ocean-getting-warm-seals-vanish-and-icebergs-melt/

Wally Keeler

Exposing the climate porn of polar bears.
https://youtu.be/Z7KTfPlCrgY

Wally Keeler
Frenchy

Pussies.
Here’s how we do it in Canada just because we don’t win the Stanley Cup.
comment image

Wally Keeler

How many dead Canucks in Canada Stanley Cup riot? None. The Iranians face live bullets and scores have been killed the past week. That takes courage and rage. Canadians are rank pussies by comparison.

Frenchy

I was replying to your post and you didn’t say there were any Iranians shot dead.
In your link the word “dead” never appeared, “shot” never appeared, “shooting” appeared once and the word death appeared 8 times but always in reference to “Death to the dictator” or “Death to Khamenei”. Did you even read the whole thing?

Wally Keeler

“This is the traffic police [compound] in Karaj. We are protesting against the rise in fuel prices. The compound has been set on fire, and the cars in the lot are also burning. There is gunfire and people are still standing in front of the compound. Everybody is still here.”

That is a quote from the article. Note the word “gunfire”. When you read an article try better to comprehend it. Obviously you are abysmally ignorant of the Iranian situation. Hundreds of people have been gunned down on the streets and just because you have a big hate-on towards me, you feel you could denigrate the brave people of Iran just to make a sick joke. Shame on you.

Wally Keeler

At the very end of the article there is a photo with the caption, “Footage of Iranian forces shooting at demonstrators”.

Question: Did you even read the whole thing?