No Large Crowd on the Beach

This weekend was intended as a test of whether a fence was needed to close the Victoria Park Beach.  It’s too early for hot weather but the sun was out and being on the beach was pleasant – at least when I visited around 1:10 pm on Saturday.  There were not the hundreds that were reported on an earlier warm weekend and most – but not all – were following the rules.  Most groups appeared to be families although one group of young people that I saw were obviously not family.  Most were just walking through but some were letting children play in the sand or having a picnic.  When I arrived, two officers were leaving – one regular and one auxiliary.  They noted that the small number of people were well behaved.  Maybe periodic policing is sufficient but I saw no evidence of a by-law officer.

Entrance to South Victoria Park

Signage was minimal – see the photos – there is no large sign at the actual beach – e.g. near the Blue Flag sign.  Parking was easy with no congestion (and still free) and the number of people on the Beach could easily maintain social distancing although some were doing “beach activities”.

However, it’s hard to know if a cool mid May weekend is a good test of possible hot July weekend crowds.

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From infectious disease specialist Dr. Abdu Sharkawy – CTV interview

“If we take the example that everything outside the GTA is given a different set of restrictions, invariably you will see people will migrate to those areas and decide the rules no longer apply. That’s human nature.”
“Human nature is prone to finding loopholes, to exploit freedom where it is available.”

Sharkawy said it only takes one “super spreader” to travel into a relatively unaffected region in the province and cause serious issues.
Sharkawy said he understands people’s frustration from other areas in the province not struggling to control COVID-19 but said the “insidious nature of this virus can’t be overstated.”

He said if rules are relaxed in less populated regions of Ontario that “people will move and people will start to spread (COVID-19) in those communities.”

Here’s how you send a message about gathering on a beach. Wanna bet they didn’t come back for a third night?

“We’ve got a lovely bunch of covidnuts.
See them all there posting in a row.
One chap has even read a book.
Could be the only one though.”
Two Questions:
What would they post if we had a Liberal running the Province?
These blokes keep banging on about covid science. What about climate change science then?
‘Ave a banana!

COVIDIOT, it matters not who is in charge, what their political stripe is, or their view of: climate change, immigration, the existence of UFCs, or whether flouride in the drinking water is a communist plot. What does matter is that they take the threat seriously and do what they can to mitigate it for their citizens. Even those who believe it to be a laughable hoax. Still saving for your bus ride to Texas when they open the border in a months time? Will provide you with some nice crayons and a coloring book designed for the limits of your thought capacity. Remember, you should colour inside the lines and don’t eat the crayons.

Well said MCGA but did you mean “UFCs” or “UFOs”?

Apologies, that should have been an “O.” I am to spelling and typing what COVIDIOT is to reasoning rightly, reading or likely, colouring.

Two things are clear to me from rereading this thread:
1. There are very divergent views of the risk COVID19 presents to the Town.
2. There is a perception, by some, that restricting access to the beaches is either a violation of rights or a demonstration of discrimination or elitism.
To the first point, if you elect to ignore the accumulated biomedical and epidemiological knowledge than you will never see this as a genuine threat. So no amount of debate or reason will modify your view.
To the second, any defensive steps taken which appear to limit freedom of access will be unacceptable on their face. You, and all others, enjoy an absolute right to the beaches; even if it might imperil the rest of the community.
Based upon this irreconcilable difference I suggest that we get the Town to reemploy the “Bang the Table” medium, to openly accumulate the citizenships’ views on this important issue. From those results, hopefully, the Council will find direction that truly reflects the will of the Town. What say you?

On her way to Cobourg, Susanna Moodie stopped at Montreal but was persuaded not to leave the boat because of the abundance of cholera running down the streets. Wise decision. This was in pre-penicillin days, pretty much in the primitive health care days when children under five died easily. When the Irish came from the tater famine, weakened and some diseased-ridden they were quarantined on the beach, before travelling north to Peterborough. During the Great Depression men rode the rails for work and often found themselves sleeping in Victoria Park for refuge. When the 60s were on, hippies from across Canada crashed on the beach. Deputy-Reeve, Lenah Fisher welcomed the hippies. (She also raised the budget to buy more ammo for the cops to kill more starlings along Chapel Street and offered a free dinner at the birth place of Marie Dressler on the individual who killed the most birds that summer. Those BORN and BRED here know those days.) Newspapers in Toronto even gave the hippies in the park front page treatment. Should the beach be quarantined? To prevent further infection. Of whom? The elderly, and particularly the elderly that have compromised immune systems. I am one of those.… Read more »

I dont believe there needs to be any justification to you or anyone to close the beach. A global pandemic and state of emergency is justification enough. The beach is Town Property.Worse thing the Town can do is wish this issue away and leave the bylaw officer out to hang by himself down there.

Canada’s population is 36,710,000. So far there have been 5909 deaths. That is 160 deaths per million individuals. So if that is enough for you to shut down the beach, then what rate of death should be achieved before we reopen the beach? What is the rate of death for the vast majority of heathy adults and teenagers? Likely very much less than 160 per million. The rate of death of the elderly is vastly larger than the general population. So if we are taking these extraordinary measures to close the beach, then what rate of death is acceptable to reopen it?

Months ago an “expert” suggested that if Canada did nothing special then 1,000,000 Canadians would die. We have spent over $200,000,000,000 so far to shut things down. That is $200,000 per life saved assuming that there is no second or third wave that is far worse than the first wave. Is $200,000 per life reasonable?

“an “expert” suggested that if Canada did nothing special then 1,000,000 Canadians would die. “

Turns out that only 5909 Canucks died. Turns out that only 322,861 people have died on this entire planet to date. The million dead Canucks comes from a pee poor computer model that had a paucity of data months ago. The discrepancy between the computer model and reality couldn’t be more stark.

China is currently locking down millions of people due to virus outbreaks. It is not a second or third wave. It is a continuing first wave because the commies are incompetent liars and don’t have a clue how to stop the spread.

At what metrics does Cobourg open the beach for all?

Not sure about the 1 million deaths. The worst case scenario from the British medical community was something like 500K in the UK, 1.2 to 2.4 million in the US. So, based upon Canada’s small population 1 million would appear wrong. The Spanish flu had an overall fatality rate of between 3% and 6% of the total population; SARS was close to 10% of those infected.

My point was not to defend the 1M deaths estimate since it is high in almost any scenario although MCGA mentions a 3% to 6% mortality rate for the Spanish flu. The point was to consider whether a cost of $200K per life saved (what we have spent so far) is an acceptable cost.

There are a number of variables involved but the overly simplistic answer is, it depends. Various insurance companies and civil courts have come up with calculations for wrongful death settlement purposes. The Deputy Governor of Texas thinks that old people, like Wally, are not worth much and should volunteer to die to save the economy. So, at least in Texas, the answer is $200K is likely too much for anyone who isn’t economically productive.

I am quite sure that the 1 million deaths was nothing more than a computer fantasy. Garbage in, garbage out. That million was calculated months ago. How much data was available months ago? Very little. And that was the basis on which 1 million dead Canuck was predicted? It is not a matter that Canada has a smaller population than UK or USA. The computer models failed in all events with grossly inaccurate predictions.

“On March 16, a 20‐​page report from Neil Ferguson’s team at Imperial College London quickly gathered enormous attention by producing enormous death estimates. Dr. Ferguson had previously publicized almost equally sensational death estimates from mad cow disease, bird flu and swine flu.”

Your other stats MCGA are irrelevant. The question being asked is what metrics would satisfy you to have the beach open to the public. What rate of death would be acceptable?

I wouldnt want to see anyone catch the virus or spread Covid because the beach isnt a necessity. I guess the answer to your question is none. No deaths would be acceptable to open the beach to play in the sand.

OK. If it should be zero, then that means the beach will be closed indefinitely. There is no end in sight for this virus. It could be years before we arrive at zero deaths.

Obviously there is no guarantee but decisions should be based on risk. What has been done to reduce the risk?What is the plan?What is the bylaw going to look like?How will enforcement of social distancing be addressed? Who and how will any bylaw be enforced? I know what the beach looks like in the summer on the weekends and so do you.

Compare Canada;s (160) death rate with Switzerland (221), or United States (275) or Ireland (318) or Sweden (363) or UK (523) or Belgium (794)

Opening the beach for “fun and frolic” will aid the spread of infection. The concern should not be to protect beach goers. They can make their own rational (or perhaps irrational) decisions. The problem is that those who are infected at the beach will then infect those most vulnerable.

The problem is that those who are infected at the beach will then infect those most vulnerable.

That problem exists in our churches, little league baseball games, Community Centre sports, etc etc. Personally I am dismayed that the majority of Cobourgers still decline to wear face masks in the public domain. That means those who are infected will then infect the most vulnerable. It’s not a problem that is isolated to the beach. At what rate of death is low enough to let people gather in church or on the beach. What criteria should be used to determine when it is safe to open the beach?

WK…Science or Facebooks polls? PICK ONE

This was the same debate held in San Francisco, Philadelphia, Denver, etc. during the 1918 Spanish flu pandemic…individual rights vs. public protection. Some “well meaning citizen” on the side of not being required to wear a face mask sent the San Francisco city Director of Public Health a package bomb to voice his/her discontent. Fact is, when San Francisco instituted mandatory face masking the rate of infection dropped to almost zero and when, after two months, they lifted the requirement there was a surge in infections…coincidence? Society has the right to take reasonable steps to protect its members. That includes occasionally imposing restriction on their liberties; like requiring us to wear seat belts when we drive; or having to disclose to a potential partner that you are HIV positive before having sex. Based upon what we currently know about this virus, and in the absence of a proven vaccine, social distancing is the core available defense. Limiting the influx of people from outside our community, who are only there to use our community beaches, appears imminently reasonable and a prudent safeguard. The maritime provinces had the right to impose self-quarantining on everyone coming into the provinces from outside. Wally, do… Read more »

Lets build a wall and get Hamilton Township to pay for it…..that worked out pretty good MAGA D. Trump…. 🙂

Let’s build a giant dome over Cobourg and evict anyone not born and raised here. That should look after a few problems besides the virus. I qualify to be here and will volunteer to adjudicate any cases where appeals were filed.

This is a virus we have problems with, without tourism we can survive. Debbie some of us are not born here but lived all our life here, married to people from here. Perhaps you can relate to that. Giant dome needs a thinking cap darling.

,,, evict anyone not born and raised here.”

Keeping Cobourg white in perpetuity.

I’m all for restriction to keep our beach deserted under Covid-19. Due to the outbreak council could impose a fee, in the future, to tourists.

SEGREGATION AND RACISM: This is why people become unemployed from banks, schools, universities etc..

Suggesting “white only” and “allow people born in town only ” ? Soon you will kick out the whole town, as a northern KKK, “born here (bh)🖕”. The Bullying legislation (symbol of is painted in pink on our police car, is not to educate and arrest those born elsewhere!). Cobourg people not born here (nbh) are not infested illegal refugees threatening you. Who are they ?some are your local priests, accountants, teachers, lab technicians, curator, chief of police, councilmen, doctors, surgeons, law enforcers. Not all are born here, but fortunately born free.
Controlling infection is not simple. Eradicating infection over its history wasn’t done by vaccination. This is the monster you should be after, and stay calm, leave your neighbour born out of town alone.

Wk..Silly comment

A touch of tongue-in-cheek satire.
Compare with your witless mediocrity, typical of pseudonyms everywhere.

What?! You don’t like pseudonyms? I didn’t know that. That’s the first time you have commented on the use of pseudonyms. I’m so happy I know that. I will update my username immediately. So sorry for the inconvenience that my pseudonym has caused.

“…witless mediocrity, typical of pseudonyms everywhere.”

Even pseudonym 422-902-510?

Still disrespect the privacy of any individuals’ government account numbers. And John Draper continues to publish government account numbers of private individuals. Very respectful — NOT! Neither of you have to right to violate federal privacy laws.

There is no privacy of that number. You have used it as a pseudonym for years. First 19 of 24 hits of “422-902-510” on Google point to you Wally Keeler. How many times have you published that number?
Your pseudonym is more notorious than your name.

Wk. Well at least I kept it under 200 words😂

WK – doesn’t your comment suggest that we do not have any non-whites born and raised in Cobourg…that isn’t true. There are plenty of people of colour born and raised in Cobourg.


Not a dome, nor evict anyone not born here, simply apply a way or ways to limit exposure to infection. In the absence of a vaccine (and remember they were never able to develope a shot for: SARS, EBOLA, HIV/AIDS or even the common cold virus) it is the only defense we got.
Dead tends to be permanent, unless your into reincarnation. And then, if you have been very bad you return as a lower life form like CURMUDGEON.

The last paragraph has got to be the best and funniest I have ever read on this Blog.

It was a great comment to wake up to. Thanks for putting a smile on my face.

Feedback appreciated…If I can’t provoke serious thought or positive action, at least I can provide comic relief.

You’re the McGreatest.

Yesssss! Finally, someone who actually knows the difference between “you’re” and “your”.

Their their, calm down JimT, it’s only spelling.😜

“There, there” actually. And no, it isn’t “only spelling” It’s the wrong word, plain and simple. The reader has to mentally edit it for it to make sense.
“…I put on my cat and goat and left…”

Geez, I even added that silly emoji and you still didn’t get it.

You manage to do both exceptionally well. Refreshing to have someone with your insight grace these pages once again. Still wish you had run for Council. You demonstrate the solid leadership that the Town so badly needs.

Deb, I feel that you are joking or very hope you are. Keeping visitors away, as in cottage country and or Newfoundland, until the curve is flat is understandable; and that Council/Staff haven’t comeup with foolproof way of implementing that is frustrating. However, talk of domes/walls/gates; evict; adjudicate; appeals is draconian and frankly unconstitutional/immoral/downright nasty. So that is why I think you are joking.

Yes, Gerinator, it was an attempt at humour. I thought that was obvious but apparently not. For all those who didn’t grasp it, this video clip will help get that point across.

Many of them know you from nothing Deb, mostly pseudonyms, many that came from outside Cobourg and hold those who proclaim that they were born and bred here in contempt. Those born and bred here know who Deb is and what she is about. She is a character and exceedingly altruistic. We had fun and frolic together with many others all our lives in Victoria Park. Those born and bred here throughout our history have always welcomed new arrivals, but they do not welcome the city slicker snobs like Drenchy or was it Stenchy, condescending to the local hillbillies and their ignorant ways.

Cobourg as the ultimate “gated community”: I like the concept, especially since I qualify as an insider. The fact that I left this place as soon as I could as a young guy and lived anywhere but here for 40 years is quite beside the point.

I don’t like throwing the term around loosely but your comments once again border on racism. You are not being funny and there were never any sacred rights granted to you just because you have lived here all your life.

Do you even know a kind word or how to treat everyone with a minimum of respect?

Canuck Patriot, please realize that she made some smart ass satiric remarks and she did so with her name. That is respect. Whereas you make disparaging remarks about her while hiding behind a pseudonym. That is disrespectful.

If the weather this weekend had been warmer there would have been many more people on the beach. The weather is the only thing that saved us from being over run. I get the impression there was no plan in place if this happened. I see people are back to taking their dogs on the beach too.

I went down to check it out today. It wasnt 5 minutes before a family from out of Town( Yes confirmed) pulled up with 3 kids and a pile of beach items etc. Credit to the by-law officer that addressed it.

Damn those family oriented folk

Leweez…perhaps if you have a sandbox and pool you could welcome them to your place?

Addressed it how?

Those who go shopping in grocery, drug, dollar, Walmart or convenience stores should not be allowed into the store without wearing a mask. At Bulk Barn, staff hand out plastic gloves, a good idea that grocery stores should incorporate. Bulk Barn staff are the only ones who can use the scoops. Stitch Witch on Division St. is open two days a week with reduced hours so people (one at a time) can purchase cotton material to make a mask. On Pinterest they have instructions how to make them. Some can be made using a T-Shirt that does not require using a sewing machine. Walkers and those riding bikes on the boardwalks should also be wearing a mask. How about the town adding a few more police to monitor the dog walkers in the main and west beach areas and to fine those who are not picking up their animal’s poop. Cobourg police do what you should be doing when people do not follow the rules.

I was walking the beach at 10am and the By law officer and his truck were in the parking lot to the west of the beach.

People – keep an eye on the numbers chart on John’s COVID page.. Yes we were at 13 and then 14 for quite a while. Then two days we were at 15, and yesterday it was 16. Whether these last two were contacts of the Brighton case I don’t know.

Perhaps not a lot of people and crowds, but what there has been is an increase number of dog owners who don’t pick up after their dog, especially at Pebble Beach. Maybe our bylaw officers can help keep our public areas clean too….?

This from a tourist chap in TripAdvisor:
“Cobourg beach is one of the most beautiful beaches I have visited.
It is completely free other than the parking, but the upkeep and maintenance of this beach is incredible.
It is cleaned daily making it the best place to visit with the family. Highly recommended as well as a visit to the businesses downtown. Just take a stroll and be amazed by the variety of stores and the lovely Victoria Hall.”
And for the covidnuts in Town, consider this:
We have not had a new COVID case in almost 2 months in Northumberland, so shut it with the fear mongering.
But we have 62 restaurants in Cobourg (according to TA) and lots of hotels, motels and B&Bs in our area.
All employ help. No lavish wages, but it helps.
If you no-tourists blokes want a sleepy place where you can complain about things, you are in the wrong bourg.

Curmudgeon…Let me know when you are done with your crystal ball. Most people are concerned and for good reason. They are not necessarily all complaints as you perceive them to be.

Spoken as a true COVIDIOT. The reason for the exceptional statistic is the quality and effectiveness of all the social safety measures. During the last two cold, wet months, how full was mainstreet, the harbour, the boardwalk and the beach? Now reflect on past Canada days, hot July and August weekends and the fact that everyone from Toronto to Trenton, and beyond, have been cooped up with semi-isolation. Yes, Cobourg will get back to its lovely, vibrant self but only after this plague has passed. And history demonstrates that we should not take any unnecessary risks that will invite the virus into our community.
You are, of course, free to move to say Michigan or Texas where you can breathe on each other at will and challenge the sanity of the 60% of the population that believes the science and does not want to endanger the health of their families or neighbors.

Do all you self-righteous blokes “who believe in science” tell peeps who disagree with you to leave the country?
How noble and caring!

Curmudgeon, suggesting that you leave is far more noble and caring than your desire to infect as many Cobourg residents as possible!

Curmudgeon. Ok…stay in your house then

COVIDIOT, simply employing the same strategy as your pompous pronouncement that if other residents of Cobourg want a “sleepy place where they can complain about things their in the wrong bourg..”
And yes, to bastardize the inscription on the Statue of Liberty: COVIDIOTS should gather in that part of the world where they “YEARN TO BE FREE, TO BREATHE ON EACH OTHER,” chug some Lysol and shout fake science.
Hopefully, Darwin’s theory will apply (another fake science right?) and the gene pool will benefit.

Curmudgeon is a complete lost cause. The frightening thing is they walk amongst us.

Cobourg will regret the day if it doesn’t get serious immediately about By-law enforcement. Anyone who thinks this pandemic is over needs to give their head a firm shake.

Curmudgeon wrote: “We have not had a new COVID case in almost 2 months in Northumberland”. We have also had very few tourists. Possible correlation? Why take chances for a few minimum wage jobs?

There are way more risks to opening the Beach than there are benefits. There will be negligible financial gain for the town in relation to the risk.I think there will be more concern over fears of offending people…similar to what John Tory and Trudeau demonstrated early in the pandemic.

John said it perfectly most were obeying the distancing but not all , take another look at the pictures. These pictures were from the beach but on the boardwalk by the Marina was a different story. Groups of people all over and the one picnic table full. Saw a lot of the seniors walking with their walkers and people walking Close right past them. Marina Parking lots hosting lots of picnics no distancing and parties at night?The police passed a lot of these groups and passed right by without having distance or move on.
Think I have now Figured out the 2 sets of rules Rule abiding Taxpayers keep walking , social distancing and keep off the beach .Rules are for those that obey them however no consequences for those who don’t.
We now have 14 cases in Northumberland County and we have been shutdown for 2 months. If council dosent promote enforcement Everywhere soon buy lots of books and puzzles could be a long fall.

Actually. there were 13 cases. No 14 was an an error by the lab chaps.
And all 13 cases have been ‘resolved’ long ago.

So obviously the young people still aren’t distancing. It’s their parents and grandparents and older relative who will pay if it passes amongst them. I see two groups in the photos. I know they are kids but a fine is a fine. How many times do people have to be told.

If you don’t join them on the beach you’re not in danger. Most of our summer beach visitors might buy an ice cream cone but don’t go shopping. Cobourg always has people complain about too many people on the beach but let’s see how the officers handle this before demanding the beach be totally closed off to everyone including Cobourg.

Why should our community take the risk….too late to lock the door when the horse have escaped. The protection of citizens of Cobourg should be the priority.

John, I suspect you are correct about the cool weather being the determinant. The beaches in southern Florida and California quickly crowded beyond safety while those in the Carolinas, where the weather was not as warm, had no problem. The California governor had to shut them all down for a second time to control things. As much as we may crave the warmth of the sun and the feel of the sand, the risk is just not worth it. Most of my immediate family is or was in medicine. One has first hand experience with SARS during the 2003 outbreak in Toronto. They saw people suffer and die, including fellow professionals. Others still carry the damage from past infection. The 2018 Spanish flu came in three waves over a two year period. In most cases, the first was the lightest of the three. San Francisco made face masks mandatory for all citizens, with heavy fines or arrest for the “slackers” (the ultimate insult in wartime US) who refused to comply and protect their fellow citizens. Forgoing the pleasure of surf and sand for a season is a small price to pay for public safety.

In direct response to those who see full access to public places, like the beaches, as their right or may have other interests, financil and the like, motivating a disregard for proven public safety I believe you should do some homework as to the level of spread and mortality of this disease. In other parts of the world where mindless minorities thumb their noses at the science and declare their right of freedom to selfishly do as they please they have been assigned a different label than slacker…COVIDIOTS.
Again, the Town Council is elected to protect the citizens. But, they are not required to provide open access to the Town’s beaches. If you must experiment, limit the risk by only allowing Town residents on the beach in the same fashion a we require for using the County dump.