Woodlawn as Rehabilitation Centre

At tonight’s Committee of the Whole meeting of Cobourg Council, an application for a Zoning By-Law amendment was received from the new owners of the Woodlawn at 420 Division Street.  The property is currently zoned District Commercial and the new owners are applying to allow it to be used as a rehabilitation centre.  The company is Canadian Centre for Addictions which already has a location in Port Hope (see web site below). Although not required legally,  Cobourg’s policy is that re-zoning applications like this should include a public meeting so one will be held.  When asked when this might be, Director McGlashon suggested November 30 was likely.  In addition the applicant will likely also hold a virtual open House – they feel that their track record in Port Hope would be a positive.

Woodlawn Inn
Woodlawn Inn

This is not the first application to set up a rehabilitation centre in Cobourg.  Last July, a request came before Council for a building permit to use the Medical Centre opposite the high school as a rehabilitation centre.  The applicant’s name was not provided.  However, planning staff determined that current zoning did not allow that use, or rather, that such a use was not defined.  As a result, a decision on that application was deferred until completion of a study by Meridian Planning Consultants Inc. as to how to manage zoning generally for such establishments and perhaps even until the bylaw review is completed in September 2021.  Part of the concern with the use of the Medical centre was its proximity to the high school.  No doubt the Woodlawn’s relative proximity to St. Michael elementary school on University will be a concern.  The public meetings should be interesting.

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Informed
9 October 2020 7:12 pm

Its unfortunate that there is need for rehab centres but without them then there is little hope for people to get better on their own. I admit that im not very knowledgeable on the subject. I do wish that it was in another location though. Only because i was born here and have some good memories of the Woodlawn before and after it was a Inn and restaurant.

ben
9 October 2020 12:14 pm

Sometime ago on this page someone asked what “institutional memory” was. Well this topic is a good example. Years ago and certainly when no-one on the present Council was around the Town had exactly the same hysterical response to a local company wanting to have ‘group homes’ situated in residential neighbourhoods. Gnashing of teeth and beatings of breasts were heard a mile away from Town Hall. The world was coming to an end, property values would plummett and civilisation as we knew then would come to a grinding halt.

Of course nothing of the kind happened and now group homes are in most neighbourhoods and accepted by most of the neighbours.

Thank goodness for those far sighted planners and Council that rode out the storms!

Sandpiper
Reply to  ben
10 October 2020 8:32 am

Yes this is true
But we have learned and imposed some very strict rules of operation and ownership. the scrutiny that the Real Owners not just the operator have to meet and under go is quite different now days . Not to mention the number of occupants was greatly reduced , controlled and regular unannounced inspections were brought in . So lets all have learned from our past and experiences so we don’t have to relive that era . Many operators were closed
for good reason .

Paul Whitehead
8 October 2020 8:36 pm

The problem with this type of business is the cliental are those who have had a choice between jail or rehab. I am only speculating. These folks will be out on the street and our police will be busy. The hospital will also be busy when they should be looking after local residents. The lineup at the hospital is long enough and the staff is worked hard enough. Whose street do you think they are going to end up on? This little town does not need Toronto’s problems. This type of facility should be in the country with no access to our community. This is a private for profit enterprise that has a main interest in making money. It might be a good idea for the province to fence off part of Brookside as they have about 10 youths being housed in a facility made for 140. This facility needs to close or be repurposed.

Keith Oliver
Reply to  Paul Whitehead
9 October 2020 9:49 am

Paul
The second sentence of your post states “I am only speculating”. Surely, in a matter that is as sensitive and as misunderstood as it is by the well-meaning general public, speculation is the last thing we need. What we do need is good information. That should be made available by means of a possible virtual open house by the applicant and at the public meeting Council has pledged to hold sometime in late November.

Paul Whitehead
Reply to  Keith Oliver
9 October 2020 11:37 am

Keith I said speculating as I am not totally sure where the clients are coming from but have a very good idea they are not coming from everyday folks that have run into trouble. Even if they have the old Vitoria Inn at gores landing was mainly clientele from union etc. and they had their share of issues including regular ambulance requirements to the local hospital. If the clientele coming to the Woodlawn are from Toronto streets, we will end up with many on our streets after. Something our little town does not need. lets wait and see what is said at eh meeting. Woodlawn is too close to schools and our downtown to be a good location. I hope it can be a good thing.

Keith Oliver
Reply to  Paul Whitehead
9 October 2020 2:28 pm

Paul
You’ve just speculated once again. Best to wait for more information.

What I believe is fair to say at this point, and what I argued early on in this blog, is that as the historic centre of a rural community we have responsibilities to those outside our town limits.

Elaine Coleman
8 October 2020 3:19 pm

What a sad statement to our culture and history. What have we become …

cornbread
Reply to  Elaine Coleman
9 October 2020 9:25 am

Repurposing Brookside is the smartest idea to come out of this discussion…The Ontario Government should be running these centers in accommodation they already have and no where near 100% capacity, not turning it over to private business.

greengrass
Reply to  cornbread
9 October 2020 9:32 am

last i heard there where (5) detainees at Brookside & also heard Ont. Gov. only pays the town of Cobourg $5000.00 a yr. in taxes’ i have NO way of verifying these rumor’s.

Ken Strauss
Reply to  greengrass
9 October 2020 11:08 pm

Ontario pays no property taxes for Brookside but instead makes “Payment in Lieu” or PiL. According to the 2020 budget (see https://cobourg.civicweb.net/document/182312 on page 8 of 11) Cobourg received $3,746 in 2019 for Brookside and expects $3,100 for 2020.

Last edited 9 days ago by Ken Strauss
cornbread
Reply to  greengrass
10 October 2020 7:34 am

How many employees does Brookside have? I bet the y have at least 45. I count about 15 cars per 8 hour shift out back of the main white building. What a waste of money on the part of the Ontario government

Reader
8 October 2020 3:02 pm

A block from The Beer Store.

Pamela Jackson
8 October 2020 2:54 pm

How sad.

beach lover
8 October 2020 10:57 am

It’s a sad state of affairs when a historic building that’s been part of the community and has so much potential becomes an institution of any kind. If you look at other towns such as Wellington, Stratford, Elora, Niagara on the Lake – they’ve all been successful at preserving their heritage and creating a supportive environment for boutique hotels, open-air restaurants, local shops, artist studios, wineries and craft breweries. The spin off benefits are proven. Cobourg has so much potential it’s really puzzling why those responsible for economic development don’t try to replicate what’s been successful elsewhere. People drive right past Cobourg on their way to Prince Edward County (where many businesses are thriving even during the pandemic). The loss of Woodlawn Inn is another nail in the coffin for Cobourg.

Sam
Reply to  beach lover
10 October 2020 5:09 pm

The King George Inn and Breakers are still alive as remaining downtown hotels. Downtown Cobourg desperately needs more revitalization. I wonder if the closure of the Beach this year was the real nail in the Coffin for the Woodlawn. All the proponents of closing the Beach had no concerns about about downtown businesses. Look at the the Covid19 infection rate now. Much of this is clearly related to University 2021 intake. Look at Waterloo, Ottawa, Wellington, Windsor, Niagara, London, York even Hamilton. What they have in common is Universities etc. Good Job Cobourg is not a college town. Quote from CBC.ca as all areas that saw double-digit increases: Halton Region: 59 Simcoe-Muskoka: 28 Durham Region: 32 Hamilton: 40 Middlesex-London: 24 Waterloo Region: 13 York Region: 68 Windsor-Essex: 18 Niagara Region: 10 Wellington-Dufferin-Guelph: 16 Obviously not including Toronto and Region of Peel. Toronto, of course, has U of T. Not sure were Wasaga Beach fits in or other Beach Counties but the pattern is obvious. Sad day for Cobourg to see the Woodlawn Inn as another victim of the gradual of the decline of the downtown. The Liquor store should NEVER have been allowed to relocate despite the existing Town By-Law.… Read more »

Last edited 8 days ago by Sam
Ken Strauss
Reply to  Sam
10 October 2020 5:44 pm

The current downtown LCBO is far too small to accommodate a decent selection of wines. How do you suggest expanding it?

Sam
Reply to  Ken Strauss
10 October 2020 11:01 pm

Of course it was & is too small. That was the reason the LCBO needed a new larger store.
You will find in the Towns vaults going back 30 years or so that location is included in a Victoria Hall redevelopment and was/is going to be a centre piece traffic circle for redevelopment.
The LCBO could have moved to a new site downtown. They refused to do so.

Ken Strauss
Reply to  Sam
11 October 2020 9:23 am

Why would a merchant choose to expand or even continue in our downtown? By moving to Elgin, parking is free and adequate. There were no heritage rules to limit their construction options for a new store. They are now convenient for customers in New Amhurst and Hamilton Township. So far there are few drug problems in the mall area and no indigents sleeping on the street. Customer access is never impeded by tourists or downtown events that restrict traffic. Successful merchants serve their customers rather than serving politicians and the few who think that government can restore an area’s past prosperity by preventing change.

Sam
Reply to  Ken Strauss
11 October 2020 1:24 pm

Ken, First of all LCBO is no ordinary merchant. It is generally a monopoly and belongs to us….The Taxpayer. The Carcase of the old store is still there with limited hours, staff and inventory but the AGCO will declare it surplus and sell the property for a huge profit. Cobourg is the only small town with more than one LCBO. BTW Governments, of all sorts, frequently direct public assets for the good of the community. Town Councillors said at the time that if Cobourg Council would not let them move to the Mall the LCBO said they would leave town altogether. Supposedly. If so, that was blackmail by an arm of the Provincial Government. The LCBO should be privatised. Your concern for the residents of New Amherst is touching. What about the rest of us elsewhere? Soon the town will be pivoting to the east anyway. Very inconvenient for them. What about the people who do not live on the west? This west area is building out actually. Not much land left before Hamilton Township and then, of course, Port Hope. I don’t understand why the Town would not be helping the Heritage downtown. Surely it is worth preserving and… Read more »

Ken Strauss
Reply to  Sam
11 October 2020 4:17 pm

The Woodlawn Inn and the Heritage downtown is the issue here not Government monopoly operations.

The topic is the Woodlawn’s conversion to a treatment centre. Your criticism is a little rich coming from someone who earlier in this thread wrote at length about COVID infection rates, the decline of the downtown and the LCBO.

Keith Oliver
Reply to  Sam
12 October 2020 7:04 am

Sam and Ken With the potential for growth that the Town has, it needs an Urban Designer on stàff. The Planners in that department deal with policy and the implementation of the Provincial Policy Statements but they are not Urban Designers. The later is usually trained as an architect and deals with human function, putting policy into meaningfully action. One example was the ineptitude of the failed “Vitalization of the Downtown” project. It cost 125,000, resulted in a few feeble startup projects and a huge billoard across from the TD Bank … and failed miserably. Also the independent consultants that are hired to advise on certain issues, seldom give credible urban design advice. People will go anywhere to get their booze, The LCBO could have been built to take the place of the old Quigley Hardware store on the north side of Albert St. In Port Hope the store is downtown. Another major mistake was losing the Ministry of Transportation Office (formerly in the Dressler House) to the mall and the 25,000 people who came downtown each year to renew their licences, etc. Banks should have been kept exclusive to the downtown. There was one in the WalMart store. As… Read more »

Last edited 7 days ago by Keith Oliver
Ken Strauss
Reply to  Keith Oliver
12 October 2020 8:34 am

Keith, Cobourg does NOT need to hire more staff or more consultants to decide what the residents SHOULD want. I am certain that Walmart, Bank of Nova Scotia, LCBO and all other successful businesses have more competent planners than Cobourg could possibly afford.

Until locating in the downtown is cheaper, easier for customers to park, has better snow clearance, etc, etc than other possible locations no rational business will move or even continue there. The solution is not to waste more CIP funds nor encourage beach visitors nor to deny businesses the ability to be elsewhere. You appear to have lost sight of the obvious: Cobourg must consider everyone equally rather than the very few who only care about the downtown.

Sandpiper
Reply to  Keith Oliver
12 October 2020 8:49 am

Yes they have taken action stifle growth , Red Tapped everyone out of town and kept out construction and jobs and new business ,other than the same old guys.
They do not know or have a Handle on sewage line capacity other than at the sewage plant it self , storm water issues have presented that same old problem in the west side of Cobourg for over 15 yrs now and Engineering is still holding everything up on that topic , and the east end will be facing it soon.
That new Hotel has been trying for 4 yrs now to locate on Depalma dr . The town wants everyone to solve the problems they have ignored for years

Paul Pagnuelo
Reply to  Keith Oliver
12 October 2020 9:19 am

The one thing you said which I agree with completely is how downtown revitalization was a total failure. Other than tossing a bunch of tax money to landlords who were too cheap to undertake capital repairs on their own dime, the money was squandered by politicians in an effort to be seen doing something.

With online and ABM banking and the move towards a cashless society, the need for physical bank buildings will continue to diminish. For restrictions like these to still be in place in 2020, shows how out of date our Town staff and councillors are with today’s technology.

Downtown needs to embrace competition. Isolating it makes it irrelevant and sets it up for failure.

The one thing Cobourg does not need are more bureaucrats to tell us how to live.

BTW – what does your posting have to do with the Woodlawn? Seems like you have taken us off topic which you accuse others of doing.

SMS
Reply to  John Draper
17 October 2020 11:59 pm

John Draper can probably confirm this but the Woodland Inn had been up for sale for 2.5 years or more. They just decided to accept this offer after so much time on the market.

Ken Strauss
Reply to  Paul Pagnuelo
12 October 2020 10:30 am

Am I the only one who finds this discussion puzzling? Various posters have mentioned prohibitions (or the desire for prohibitions) on various businesses: banks outside downtown, a LCBO on Elgin, moving the MTO office, building a new hotel, “allowing” Walmart to be in Cobourg, etc, etc. Yet there has been no mention of just saying NO! to a drug treatment facility anywhere in Cobourg. Why?

SW Buyer
Reply to  Ken Strauss
12 October 2020 12:08 pm

Are the naysayers also opposed to strip clubs, “adult stores”, brothels and x rated movie theatres? How is the argument against these different from the argument against drug rehab centres?.
The discussion should be about what is best for the majority of Cobourg residents.
Similar to beach use by non Cobourgers, the rehab centres are likely to cater mostly to non residents and cause additional expenses for the Town (police, EMT, theft, safety concerns, social services, court security and more) with little economic contribution or benefit to the Town residents.
To date, the “rehab centres” and/or staff have not presented any data or analysis regarding these increased costs and the general change in the ” safety” of Cobourg. Nothing from the Cobourg police either.

This is part of the due diligence that is needed in order to understand this project and make an informed evidence based decision that is best for the majority of Cobourgers.

Last edited 6 days ago by SW Buyer
Conor
Reply to  SW Buyer
12 October 2020 4:39 pm

You seem to be obsessed with beach use by non Cobougers and now you are linking them to drug rehab centres. You think everything is going to cost you money

Ken Strauss
Reply to  Conor
12 October 2020 4:47 pm

You think everything is going to cost you money.

Please explain why you feel that SW Buyer is incorrect.

Last edited 6 days ago by Ken Strauss
SW Buyer
Reply to  Conor
12 October 2020 5:24 pm

You wrote: “…You think everything is going to cost you money…” I think it is quite clear that the beach and these rehab facilities will cost Cobourgers and we will get little in return. Perhaps the question should be:…why aren’t you concerned…?
Perhaps you have money to burn and don’t care if Cobourg’s tax dollars are spent wisely for the benefit of Cobourgers..

Its quite evident that maintaining the beach cost the Town and this benefits mostly non Cobourgers. The proposed drug rehab facilities appear to be the same, with no evidence to the contrary.

My preference is that staff do the research and analysis needed for adequate due diligence in order to support an evidence based decision.
Staff’s report on the beach “pay for play” is pending and based on prior efforts, I’m not expecting much. In the case of the drug rehabs, the evidence to date strongly suggests that Staff haven’t given the matter much thought.

Last edited 6 days ago by SW Buyer
Informed
Reply to  SW Buyer
13 October 2020 7:23 pm

Maybe we need another plaza hotel and the British. Bands and strippers downtown. You have to admit….it was busier.

Deb OConnor
Reply to  Ken Strauss
12 October 2020 11:18 pm

John said this “Although not required legally, Cobourg’s policy is that re-zoning applications like this should include a public meeting so one will be held. When asked when this might be, Director McGlashon suggested November 30 was likely. In addition the applicant will likely also hold a virtual open House – they feel that their track record in Port Hope would be a positive”.

How’s that for public consultation? Pay attention, Mr. Straus.

Keith Oliver
Reply to  Paul Pagnuelo
12 October 2020 8:09 pm

Paul There is a relationship but this blog is not the place to discuss. Best brief answer to your question is that it’s diversity that makes à human settlement work well. There’s only so much you can plan or direct but you can create the stage. Trudeau has said that “Diversity is our strength”, and while the scale is very different the same can be sed abut small settlements, or of a street or neighbourhood. Diversity in housing, services, employment and educational opportunities, commerce, income groups, age groups, cultural groups, recreation, etc, etc. Woodlawn and its acceptance by the community would be part of that. When one possible location was across from the secondary school some expressed concern about young people being exposed. One possible benefit I saw was including the subject of addiction in a secondary school class on general health and have students participate in encounter group sessions at the centre. There’s nothing like hearing, seeing the tradgic end result of experimenting with addictive substances to drive the point home. The prospect of a cashless society has both good and bad points. I avoid the self checkout now at NoFrills and Dollarama because I enjoy the brief exchange… Read more »

Last edited 6 days ago by Keith Oliver
Paul Pagnuelo
Reply to  Sam
11 October 2020 11:49 am

The Woodlawn is closing because the owners have said they want to retire. One can still hope that another restaurant or hospitality owner would acquire it and continue Cobourg’s tradition of fine dining. A drug rehab centre is the worst possible outcome for a property of its magnificence. The success of the Woodlawn had nothing to do do with beach tourist traffic. Beachwear doesn’t line up with the Woodlawn’s dress code. One major anchor may get shoppers downtown but it won’t get people into all the stores. Each store must be its own anchor and offer what appeals. Shoppers want what they can’t otherwise buy easier or less expensive online. Why is there not a fish market, butcher, brewery, hobby and craft store which should draw a reasonable portion of our local demographic? A Herma’s would be a huge draw. And is paid parking trying to solve one problem (beach access) while turning off shoppers? One can lament about the past and how allowing WalMart and Home Depot should never have been allowed. The fact is there is no turning back, so rehashing the good old days, other than allowing one to vent steam, accomplishes nothing positive. Just filling empty… Read more »

Last edited 8 days ago by Paul Pagnuelo
Sam
Reply to  Paul Pagnuelo
11 October 2020 1:40 pm

Paul,
First of all the older owners of the Woodlawn had retired and the kids took over. Check their website.
Most of the points you make are extremely valid but:
The Woodlawn is already sold to the new people as of August and the beach was a draw for Cobourg Hotels and the downtown merchants. The point is the downtown needs revitalisation and of that there is no question and letting the LCBO did wonders for the merchants on the west including Walmart who did need help. The Northumberland Mall is a dog and needed and needs help but not at the expense of the downtown.
A Hermas, and other types of specialty stores would help an awful lot and perhaps you should invest in something. The point being that the downtown needs investors to take the plunge. Perhaps a downtown commercial tax reduction would be a good idea to encourage investment? Especially now with business failures because of the Pandemic. We ain’t seen nothing yet about the economic affects of Covid19.
We need to give a shot in the arms to the downtown not a new Holiday Inn next to Home Depot which Cobourg is getting.

Last edited 7 days ago by Sam
Ken Strauss
Reply to  Sam
11 October 2020 4:24 pm

Perhaps a downtown commercial tax reduction would be a good idea to encourage investment?

Why only for downtown? Why only commercial? Perhaps a Cobourg tax reduction would be a good idea!

Last edited 7 days ago by Ken Strauss
Sandpiper
Reply to  Sam
12 October 2020 8:38 am

Ask Herma why she never moved into Cobourg or Port Hope
I did a few yrs ago they tried to get her to go to Port Hope at the old Bargain shop, her reasons were
Valid
1- rents were double
2- Taxes were double
3- she would miss a lot of traffic and customers that head north from the 401 neither town on its own could provide enough support .
4- down town in either community out side of the Bargain shop did not have a large enough space with adequate shipping & receiving area , fast in and out parking where you didn’t have to Lug you newly purchased goods 1/2 a mile
5- Adequate updated electrical power to run all her equipment
none of the landlords have updated
SIMPLE

Rob
Reply to  Paul Pagnuelo
13 October 2020 9:39 am

The new cannabis store(s) will certainly draw shoppers to the area – may have some spin-off economic benefits to local eateries…. 😉

Conor
Reply to  Sam
11 October 2020 4:38 pm

Of course the closure of the beach is what’s taking business down. That and the attitude of Cobourg residents who want to take to the beach crowd and tourist alike to the cleaners financially. Lets see you are from out of town we will charge you for the beach and parking? Lets double it for them. I grew up in Cobourg so I know it well and I am now living in Whitby. Whitby has a small beach and a harbour just as good if not better than Cobourg. We didn’t lock down our waterfront park with razor wire fencing and we certainly have not charged anyone for parking. A few more “out of towners” I suppose but not many and we welcome all tourists. As far a covid19 goes we have very few cases as per our population. It’s time for the people of Cobourg to get their heads out of the sand and realize that beach people and tourists matter and both spend money.

Ken Strauss
Reply to  Conor
11 October 2020 6:15 pm

I don’t recall any “razor wire fencing” but perhaps I missed it. I’m delighted that “Whitby has a small beach and a harbour just as good if not better than Cobourg”; please enjoy it!

Conor, how do your comments relate to the Woodlawn?

Last edited 7 days ago by Ken Strauss
Conor
Reply to  Ken Strauss
11 October 2020 6:53 pm

The razor wire was only in jest. In Sams comments he asks ” I wonder if the closing of the beach was the last nail in the coffin for the Woodlawn. Do you not think they are related?

Sandpiper
Reply to  Conor
12 October 2020 8:24 am

No the Woodlawn has been listed for approx 3 yrs now first time was with a boutique realtor specializing in B & B s and then with ReMax for 2 yrs
the first offer is some times the Best . at least it would have been for the Town

SW Buyer
Reply to  Conor
13 October 2020 9:04 am

My understanding is that the owners want to retire, not that the Woodlawn is in financial difficulty. I also doubt that the beach closing had any significant (if any) impact on the Woodlawn’s business.
I think tank tops, board shorts and flip flops would conflict with the Woodlawn’s dress code and the general decorum of the place and its guests.

Canuck Patriot
Reply to  Conor
11 October 2020 7:59 pm

As a now out of town beach tourist, where are the places you spend your money to help justify providing you with a free service? Obviously you don’t like the fact that your free gravy train ticket is facing the chopping block.

Walk down King St. Specifically which businesses benefit from beach tourism? Our merchants can get far more mileage catering to locals who live here, shop here and pay taxes here. My preference is to have a tranquil and vibrant four season downtown.

The Woodlawn’s sale is conditional on a zoning change so there is still an opportunity for the business to be run as a restaurant and inn by another buyer.

Informed
Reply to  Conor
14 October 2020 6:34 am

Enjoy Whitby then and dont worry about Cobourg beach..maybe you could create a blog or series of videos encouraging people from Toronto to use the Whitby waterfront?

Informed
Reply to  Sam
13 October 2020 6:00 pm

Ever hear of retirement? That building and business had been for sale well before covid.

Wally Keeler
8 October 2020 10:51 am

A pseudonym commented, “I heard that the person buying the Woodlawn is not a citizen of Canada…” That’s the modus operandi of the msm –> rumour mongering.

Sam
Reply to  Wally Keeler
10 October 2020 5:13 pm

Wally,
It is not illegal for non residents to Invest in Canada anyway.
What is msm?

Gerald Childs
Reply to  Sam
11 October 2020 9:42 am

Mainstream Media according to one definition.

Frenchy
Reply to  Gerald Childs
11 October 2020 11:12 am

Being Wally, it’s probably something about Metropolis Migrunts. Don’t know what the s would be for.

cornbread
8 October 2020 10:30 am

I heard that the person buying the Woodlawn is not a citizen of Canada and is not allowed to live in Canada. Coburg should NOT be setting itself up to house about 70 drug problems people. Is the east end Medical Center also involved as a recreation facility for these individuals…across from our HighSchool?
Council…do not change the zoning!!!

Rob
Reply to  cornbread
8 October 2020 11:15 am

Cornbread – our feel good town is already “housing” far more than 70 people with drug problems. Plus our little feel good town currently has pornography and sex addicts, alcoholics, gambling addicts, prescription drug addicts and illicit drug addicts – don’t forget the nicotine addicts. Many of which haven’t hit their bottom or begun their recovery journey.

Also curious why the citizenship of the person buying the property is important to you? We have many companies in Cobourg not owned by Canadians – Post Cereals, Sabic, Horizon Plastics, Walmart, Rexall, etc… Do you have reason to believe there is something criminal going on? Are you afraid they might be a visible minority?

Last edited 11 days ago by Rob
JimT
Reply to  Rob
8 October 2020 1:39 pm

…plus The Beer Store, also. Owned by a foreign conglomerate.

And then you have to wonder why a supposedly “local” commenter can’t himself spell “Cobourg” correctly.

Sandpiper
Reply to  Rob
8 October 2020 2:01 pm

I think it might be we supply the services and support at Cobourg’s expense and the Money does not stay with us it leaves the area / country Everything from Food , Bedding , cleaning supplies etc will be purchased via . whole sale buying groups and brought in
as will be the senior staff were left with the expense and the issues that come with .

Sam
Reply to  Rob
10 October 2020 5:25 pm

Rob you have forgotten Ford who just got $500,000,000 of our dollars given to them by us.
No particular point apart from the fact that are foreigners.
BTW. How much does $500,000,000 work out per job?
Now that Canada has finally given Bombardier Aerospace away do we get all that money back?
On another note what is the Town doing about the huge losses at the CCC. We can’t afford that either.
Following that line of thought what about turning the old rinks into a Rehabilitation Centre or better still sell it to Canadian Centre for Addictions instead of the Woodlawn.
This would provide much needs funds for the Town now, when we need it, and cut Operating costs.

Conor
Reply to  cornbread
8 October 2020 3:43 pm

If the person is not from Canada that makes him or her an “out of towner” Just like the beach people. Now with 2 marijuana stores opening within a block of each other Cobourg will really be a “feel good town’. Don’t knock the Woodlawn Inn as you might need it soon.

Informed
Reply to  Conor
14 October 2020 8:34 pm

Out to lunch

Mark
Reply to  cornbread
8 October 2020 7:28 pm

It appears some people are not happy that Cobourg is not 100% WASP like is was in the ‘60’s

cornbread
Reply to  Mark
10 October 2020 7:43 am

I would rather have Cobourg in the ’60’s, rather than Toronto in the current ’20’s with their multiple drug gangs, drive by shootings etc.

Informed
Reply to  cornbread
14 October 2020 8:37 pm

No computers,cell phones or social media. Best days ever.

Stanley
8 October 2020 10:29 am

Two marijuana outlets to open on King St. and one addiction facility on Division. Sounds like good timing!

“ studies suggest that 9% of people who use marijuana will become dependent on it” (https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/marijuana/marijuana-addictive).
While I understand that dependency is not the same as addiction, that suggests that the facility may well have local clients as well as outsiders.

Rob
Reply to  Stanley
8 October 2020 11:25 am

Stanley – how do you feel about the LCBO being located downtown and on Elgin near a mall. We can buy alcohol in Walmart and Metro while we shop with and around children. How do you feel about Shoppers Drug Mart being on King Street or York Super Pharmacy and Pharmacy 101 being on Division? Alcohol and prescription medication have killed exponentially more people than cannabis and lead to much more significant dependency, addiction and health issues than cannabis. Its difficult to get our collective heads around this massive change and stereotype regarding the legalization and reality of cannabis…sometimes for me as well believe me.

Last edited 11 days ago by Rob
JimT
Reply to  Rob
8 October 2020 1:41 pm

The biggest non-event of recent times.

Sandpiper
Reply to  Stanley
8 October 2020 2:03 pm

Not with out the Police and courts sending them there

Doug Weldon
8 October 2020 10:26 am

There are two responses to this issue. Sandpiper has stated one. The other is to look as a society as a cooperative working group. Not necessarily extreme left but society as a group that works together to achieve common goals. Instead of letting people fall to the bottom and stay there, we reach out and help to pull them back up. There is such a strong logic to the idea of helping those who are down and out that I am convinced that it is right while other philosophies are wrong. If we let the bottom grow it will get bigger and bigger until the society fails and we all suffer. We only have to look to our south to see how that works. So Canada would slide down, become less productive and exhibit more and more disfunction. Haves and have nots. Every time we see a social problem we need to throw our best resources at it. That will make all of us better off in short order. The logic of this is simple and I think just about unarguable. There is still room for conservative values but that would be between those who are functional. I have experience… Read more »

Patricia Stanley
8 October 2020 9:51 am

I hope this isn’t a John Haines venture but I tam pretty sure it is. Look him up for info on issues in Alberta and Ontario, as recent as 2019. Charges were dropped, but trouble seems to follow him. I have heard nothing bad about his Port Hope business.

Kyle
Reply to  Patricia Stanley
9 October 2020 8:06 pm

With Cobourg’s luck it will be John Haines. Thank you for pointing out the name. A google search is quite disconcerting about his activities.

Leona Woods
8 October 2020 8:38 am

My understanding is that St. Michaels School is closing but I could be wrong.

Sandpiper
8 October 2020 8:27 am

Why would we wish to accept the cost and obligations that come with such operations
of Curing other / out side community problems here in Cobourg . Their patrons are not from here .
The additional cost and burdens to our Health , emergency , and policing systems will be significant. May be if this was a Cost per call basis where the Town and Tax payers might come out ahead rather than in the HOLE . This is Not a Mental Health or Alzheimer’s facility to deal with the back log of Northumberland’s own , its a Drug and Substance abuse center , Just a Larger Transition House . Haven’t we experienced enough .
Next to a School , Senior apartments , Ryerson Commons and Victoria Seniors center ,
beer store as well as being a main arterial road to our down town .
The Town is here to protect us isn’t it ?????????????

Anne
Reply to  Sandpiper
8 October 2020 8:48 am

Oh for goodness sake. Educate yourself. This is a privately funded facility. Although rates are not listed on their Port Hope site, programs at facilities such as this are costly and not financially accessible to many. We all have addictive behaviours of some sort. Unfortunately for some they are extreme. When not dealt with professionally, the impact on our health system and families can be devastating. This would be a very positive addition to our community and small step in the right direction to improving the quality and wholeness of life for many. And just think… those healed might just fall in life with Cobourg.

Sandpiper
Reply to  Anne
8 October 2020 9:06 am

evidently you didn’t read the comments on Rehab .ca
Please keep in mind I have a relative that manages 1 such facility
and we have invested in such operations .
so for goodness sake og spend some time at 1 of these facilities especially on Intake wk.

Rob
Reply to  Sandpiper
8 October 2020 9:10 am

Sandpiper – if I take your comments literally, you are very out of touch with what a profile of an addict is – because there isn’t one. You appear to believe that all addicts are homeless beggars and thieves who break into cars for nickels and dimes. The profile of an addict is far more broad and the disease is very complex. I’ve met addicts and they come from all backgrounds and walks of life within our society, from “C” & VP level positions within global organizations to mother’s on the Parent Teacher Association. Here is something that might shock you; They live in Cobourg. They stand next to you at No Frills and Foodland. They serve you your meals at restaurants. They assist you at the mall when you checkout. They coach local sports and volunteer with community groups. They take your temperature at the clinic. You might even have an addict in your family right now. If you think you know what addiction looks like, you are so sadly mistaken. I’m not suggesting The Woodlawn is the ideal location but this isn’t a BIG city problem and these “patrons” aren’t just petty criminals and vagrants. Many have families… Read more »

Sandpiper
Reply to  Rob
8 October 2020 2:26 pm

These operations charge $500. per day and up to $24,000. —
per month No Guarantees Northumberland does not have enough support or people that will be using these facilities or go willingly to keep this operation in business for more than a few months . The Trafalgar center that was located in Victoria Inn up until June this yr charged every nicolle of that , so does this group .
They have little to No local attendees . People move to Cobourg to get away and leave these social problems behind . No one is saying there isn’t a need or a set of problems But Why do we want to take on another regions issues

Keith Oliver
Reply to  Sandpiper
8 October 2020 9:53 am

Sandpiper (whoever you are) gives eloquent expression to a sentiment that is isolationist with insensitive, not to mention cruel and unjust, overtones. I believe that a Canadian, is a Canadian, is a Canadian. I believe that when someone needs help, and you can help, you do so. I also believe that if you do not you become part of the problem. Clearly Sandpiper is part of the problem. People seeking the aid that Woodlawn will provide are not evil, a threat to children and the elderly. They will be there because they want to be. As I described in an earlier blog regarding the King St Medical Centre, I know from personal experience that substance abuse is prevalent across all classes and not just the dispicable, if not disposable, as Sandpiper implies. Cobourg is the centre serving a rural community. It always has been since early times when Ontario was divided into four districts and Cobourg was the commercial, educational, judicial and administrative centre for the District of Newcastle. With all the benefits that flow from that relationship we, Cobourg, have responsibilities. I trust all that are involved in creating this new and humane facility, from Council, to Planning, to… Read more »

JimT
Reply to  Sandpiper
8 October 2020 1:46 pm

I refuse to be influenced in the least way by such overt hysteria.

Sandpiper
Reply to  JimT
8 October 2020 2:16 pm

How about by a person that has been a property owner
with a Treatment center as a tenant or neighbour to other viable tenant / business When and if you are fortunate enough to deal with
such a group first hand over a period of yrs. I believe you might begin to understand the full impact these for profit operations have on a
small town or neighbourhood .