In September 2019, citizens made complaints to Council about the Marina. There were two main concerns: (1) electric power was cut off when water levels were high (as they were in 2017 and 2019) and (2) concerns about visitors abusing fishing privileges – notably to do with the fish cleaning table (see photo below). The Town was quick to upgrade the Electrical system – that’s now fixed. And now at the Committee of the Whole Meeting on 21 June, Town staff are recommending removing the fish cleaning table altogether and banning the cleaning of fish on municipal property. A survey was conducted of other municipalities and it seems others have had the same problem and now ban fish cleaning. You will have to clean on your boat or at home.
Problems with the cleaning table are:
- The present cleaning facility is not attractive to users. It is very small, located in the direct sunlight, surrounded by walls, no wind, and a lot of bees.
- Because only one person can use it at a time, the wait can be sufficient to cause anglers to find other places, or solutions.
- There is no waste disposal system, hence the less scrupulous use of the garbage bins or the campground bins.
Report by Julie Behan-Jones Assistant Manager Waterfront Operations
Here is what Julie said in her report to Council:
Lake Ontario is becoming famous for prosperous fishing which has resulted in both personal and chartering anglers discovering Cobourg Marina, as a gateway to the open water. The fishing community has increased to such an extent that one of our docks has become home to several seasonal charter boats and the transient fishing boat numbers have doubled in three years.
Although welcoming Anglers to the Cobourg Marina and Waterfront has been beneficial both in terms of recreational options for guests and financial gains to the Marina, it has not come without some opportunities for growth and improvement.
The existing Fish Cleaning Station is a single use unit wherein there are no means of disposing of the refuse. In recent seasons anglers have begun cleaning their catch on docks, ramps and lawns around the marina and disposing of their cuttings in the municipal bins along the waterfront or dropping them into the harbour.
This current practice is causing unpleasant situations for guests, residents and staff alike.
The survey of “over twenty” sources (12 are recorded in survey document – see Links below) suggested the need for a change in practice.
So Julie recommends:
Many sources have experienced similar issues to those that Cobourg Waterfront Staff have seen worsening in the past few seasons and to that end, we feel that a policy change is required to fall in line with the changing trend.
And:
That Council endorse and approve the Amendment to By Law No. 022-2016 (Download from this page) to include: “Fish Cleaning/Gutting/Descaling is Prohibited within the Cobourg Harbour Waters, Marina and Waterfront Property, Municipal Parks and Infrastructure”.
Signs will be put in place and social media and the web site will educate people on the change. Julie says that “Waterfront Staff will remove the current fish cleaning station in an environmentally responsible manner.”
If Council approves Julie’s recommendations at the C.O.W. meeting, it will then need approval at the Regular meeting on 28 June so it will be a few weeks before there is any change.
Links
Cobourg News Blog Report
- Complaints about Marina – 2 September 2019
Supporting Documents from Staff
Addendum
At the Committee of the Whole Meeting on 21 June, Council approved the Staff proposal to ban fish cleaning on Municipal property but only until May 31 next year. This would allow time for a staff report on the cost of providing an upgraded acceptable cleaning station and its benefits. Deputy Director Teresa Behan said that the Marina already sells coolers and ice and that most people clean fish out in the Lake – not the harbour.
Print Article:
While slightly tangential it should be noted that seasonal charters present their own issues. Frequently they leave the dock for a fishing charter at, or before, dawn. As part of their preparation, they warm their engines for some significant time prior to departure. For those other seasonal boaters who stay aboard their boats this translates to regular doses of predawn unwanted wake-up calls along with sucking in engine exhaust for the duration of the preparation and boarding of charter guests. One incident, recounted to me, nearly escalated into a fist fight after an exchange of unfriendly words, with the charter captain calling out the seasonal boater for complaining. While the Marina makes some extra revenue from this type of business, it comes with very evident denting of goodwill. (Imagine having your neighbor at the cottage, running his/her lawn mower at 5 AM many of your summer mornings, might get old fast? Might even be a by-law against it.) There was a reason the first marina manager declined most charter boat slip requests. Other harbors, like Port Credit, dedicate the outer portion of one dock for any seasonal charter boats.
MCGA – Your example above is why yacht clubs that control their slip allocations do not allow charter fishing boat owners to get a slip. The charter boat owners disrupt other seasonal boaters who come just for the quiet enjoyment of their hobby. Not to earn a living from boating.
Old Sailor, it comes down to what the Town believes the purpose of the marina is. If they see it as a profit center then load up on charters. But, if it is a recreational asset then limit it to seasonal boaters. The Town would not allow a business to pop up on the beach that disadvantaged the regular beach goers. And, that is even before we consider the public health question, during a pandemic, of piling a bunch of people onto a small boat for a day on the lake; social distancing is absolutely out of the question and it is unlikely that everyone onboard is from the same family.
Although boat lift-in was allowed under the current regulations, there is still no resumption of sailboat racing, or opening of yacht clubs. Meetings and so on are still virtual. Here’s a link to the latest from the sailing federation – https://ontariosailing.ca/
link to article referred to – Important Update on COVID Regulations
Reopening and Step One
So is your impression that the rules of the sailing federation would preclude a charter captain from operating his power boat out of Cobourg Marina? If yes, who would be responsible for enforcing it?
Good question. Remember, it’s not the rules of the sailing federation – they’re just following the Provincial Regulations which everyone is expected to comply with.
Rule: Charter boats can tie up only on the west side of the centre pier.
Wrong Wally. The seasonal charters have their own slips on the docks.
I know season charters have their own slips on the docks. I am suggesting that a way to mitigate the early morning rumbling of motors annoying other boaters would be to buffer the noise by requiring season charters to tie up on the west side of the centre pier. Similar effect to the outer portion of a dock, only better.
Wally;
Your proposing putting slips on the west side of the centre pier….in the west harbour. Marina expansion into the west harbour was strongly opposed by Cobourg residents and was voted down by Council.
Perhaps some slips could be installed on the west side of the East Pier, south of the Coast Guard wharf
There is no need for slips or docks on the west side of the centre pier and I am not suggesting that. I am suggesting that the season charters could simply tie up on the west side of the centre pier. The idea is to mitigate the early morning rumblings from these boats. If you tie them up on the “west side of the east pier south of the Coast Guard wharf” the noise will not be buffered to the other boaters and perhaps the condo owners nearby. My suggestion utilizes the centre pier as a sound barrier for all the other boaters.
Quite frankly, I don’t have a boat, so I really don’t care what is done to mitigate the noise. It’s only a suggestion. If anyone has a better idea to mitigate the morning noise from season charters, then that would be fine with me.
I wonder how many councillors or marina staff have witnessed the noise at 5.00am that MCGA describes. I have. It is a free for all as boats are launched, trailers are parked, (“encouraged” by the marina staff to park on the newly branded “gravel” parking area). Headlights beam into nearby apartments, and anglers run their heavy equipment along the sidewalk. It is a terrible infringement on both boaters using the marina, and residents rights for quiet between the hours of 11pm and 7,00am.
The problem is that the court of appeal for residents’ complaints is Cobourg council and staff. Revenue for the marina appears to win out every time. Complaints are not addressed to the satisfaction of residents. It is time that the marina provided management of the marina parking lot on a 24/7 basis.
The Cobourg Marina web site includes the phrase:-
“We are proud to be a Silver Salmon Challenge” weigh in station! Let’s see those fish!
I am not proud that Cobourg is a weigh in station for the competitive killing of salmon.
In this day and age, the promotion of competitive salmon fishing is, for Cobourg’s green agenda,a step back to the 1990’s.
I do not believe any of the Councillors or marina staff have boats in the harbor and it is very unlikely they get down to the docks at 5 AM. Again, if the stated goal is simply maximizing profitability than expanding seasonal charter occupancy is the way to go. If the goal is best serving the needs of local recreational boaters than the current strategy is wrong. As Old Sailor accurately pointed out, many seasonal boaters, who are also Cobourg residents and taxpayers, have migrated to Trent Port Marina, another municipal boating facility. Satisfied customers do not leave.
I believe the 5 year waiting list myth was put out a few years ago under a different manager who left for another marina and also left that one.
I can’t remember his name but I’ m sure someone would recall
My comments were for Bookbinder not MCGA
My mistake.
I am going back to around 2011-2014. There was a long list. The docks were full and on July 1 weekends many boats docked on the harbour walls. Since then there was an expansion of slips as a new dock and slips were added to the North harbour wall.
Obviously you are more knowledgable about the subject as I only recall a request for the actual list itself to be provided but don’t recall that ever happening nor questioned.
They must have better fishing down there plus a fish cleaning station and a laundry mat for the boaters
An excellent, free to boaters, all inclusive laundry facility as part of your fee. No cleaning station. Not sure how good the fishing is but a fair number of boats carry rod setups. No charters as far as I can tell.
How to market your facility to both locals and sailors going up the Trent and/or The Great Loop.
Come Ashore in Quinte West – Trent Port Marina – Bing video
In my experience at marinas and yacht clubs around Lake Ontario, the better solution is to attract more non charter fishing seasonal boaters to Cobourg Marina. We would need reserved parking just for boaters, better dock security and winter storage for all seasonal boaters that want it. Then non charter seasonal boat turnover numbers would go down The quick revenue fix is to attract the usual scuzzy crowd of out of town/out of province charter fishing boaters whose sole purpose is to maximize their profit on their charter fishing business They take up 7-24 double parking spaces with their trucks and boat trailers and way more daily parking with their four guests per charter. The more charter fishing boats we take on the higher the turnover in quality non charter seasonal boaters who continue moving their boats east to Port Trent Marina.
We have several Locals here and in Port Hope that earn their living from Charter fishing
The Ganaraska River is now a Noted World class fishing destination .
Entirely agree Old Sailor. Way too many Cobourg taxpayer/sailors have moved to Trent Port Marina for a gamut of valid reasons, including the charters. In the early days of the Cobourg Marina, management actively discouraged the charters. Additionally, there was a three tier, seasonal dock slip fee structure. A Cobourg taxpayer was at a basic level, then any Northumberland resident was at a slightly higher price point and anyone from beyond the county paid the highest rent. It encouraged the locals to stay in their home port.
As to fish cleaning, I have done my share of deep sea charter fishing and we never cleaned and scaled until we returned home. And, because the soil around our family cottage was mostly sand, my grandmother would bury the fish entrails around the new plants as fertilizer. Not sure that actually worked but she believed it. Nothing went to waste and nothing was dumped in the harbor.
Thank you. I will visit Trent Port marina to see what discernable differences would make that marina more desirable than Cobourg.
At 6.30am this morning there were 103 empty slips in the Cobourg Marina. Some of those empty slips would be required to be held by the marina for transients. In other cases the slip may simply be unoccupied due to a cruising. Covid-19 may also had an affect on seasonal tickets.
It was not long ago that there was a 5 year (at least) waiting list for slips at the Cobourg Marina. Now our Marina is advertising that it is not too late to buy seasonal dockage for 2021.
Are the empty slips required to be held for transients by some government regulation or are they empty due to decisions by marina management?
All yacht clubs on Lake Ontario have reciprocal rights at each other’s clubs. Here, CYC doesn’t own the slips, so reciprocal right visiting boats moor up against the west pier. CYC is invoiced and pay the mooring fees for these visiting boats to the Marina.
Some empty slips on the east side of the pier are always left vacant for visiting boaters who don’t like mooring against a cement pier, and want electricity + water on board while moored. They pay the Marina directly and there are no reciprocal rights allowed for those moorings.
I think it’s just a common courtesy extended at all harbours on the lake that there always be available mooring for emergency occasions.
jimq26;
You are correct that most yacht clubs have their own facilities. The CYC does not and therefore rents the west side of the centre pier from the marina to provide reciprocal mooring.
I am not sure what regulation could apply but somewhere in the back of my mind there may have been money from the Ontario Lottery corporation that helped fund the marina. That money could have been conditional on a certain percentage of slips being held for transients. I have not seen the documents. A person with better knowledge of Cobourg marina history may be able to answer your question.
Ken: Marinas are not under regulations to hold empty slips. A couple of years ago I asked the manager at Port Whitby Marina what their target seasonal slip fill rate was. She said 90 to 95%. Trent Port Marina may have a similar goal but will likely not reach it as they do not offer boat storage. Cobourg under the former marina manager had a fill rate target of about 66% which is ridiculous. 90% would be a better target. Americans aren’t coming over any more and traffic from GTA yacht clubs is way off as well.COVID 19 and high water levels have also killed the transient business.
A comparison to Port Whitby probably isn’t worthwhile. On the one hand there isn’t any shopping, restaurants etc close to PW Marina, so that’s not a drawing card for transients. Also, with Pickering and Oshawa relatively close by, there’s more competition for transient slips. The incentive for a larger percentage of transient slips just isn’t there.
While still under Covid conditions, it’s probably not the best time to be making long term decisions for the marina. When the border reopens and people become more comfortable travelling, the demand for transient slips may change significantly.
Ken S:
Staff, with Council approval decide how the slips are allocated: seasonal & transient. Cobourg marina has a high percentage of transient slips compared to other north shore municipal marinas. I recall past mayors saying that the transient slips were needed for tourism to help support the downtown merchants.
Cobourg still has a fairly high transient percentage. We were never able to quantify the dollar benefit to the Town, ex marina, from the transient visits. My best analytic was demonstrating the uptick in LCBO sales at the small store during a boating season. For some reason the LCBO HQ was uncomfortable sharing that data with me.
MCGA,
It is easy to understand that the marina users (seasonal and transient) would be patrons of a number of downtown businesses: LCBO, Kelly’s, Dean Marine, Shoppers and some of the downtown restaurants.
Quantification is much harder. The downtown business owners will tell you that they get some business from the boaters but are not willing to share more than that.
Other marinas, such as Whitby, don’t have dedicated transient slips and they seem to manage just fine.
Ken, the simple answer is there is no regulation that requires transient slips and not all clubs have real, continually available reciprocal slips. In a number of ports it is a function of which seasonal slip owner is away; the same holds true for a facility like Niagara Sailing Club. That said, a desperate sailor almost always has a wall or fueling/lifting/loading area as a worst case point to secure, even if only on a temporary basis. The number of Cobourg Marina transient slips is entirely the domain of Council. The original formula for calculating that number was derived by either Newton or Leibniz.
Last weekend someone from outside Northumberland would face over $800 in fines from various levels of government for fishing in parts of the County…
This weekend, they can fish, but, can’t go on the beach.
Next weekend, they can fish but we’d appreciate if they didn’t catch or clean anything.
What are we planning for the weekend after that?
Skeet shooting off one of the piers once we find the correct name for the pier and location🙂
Informed, intended or not, you made this reader laugh out loud. Must be the pandemic stresses of so many rules of what we can and can not do. Although I support a safe and healthy harbour for all users, there is one user group that might actually enjoy strong fishy smells. For a sample of the tourism promo see a clip from youtube stars Mabel and Olive:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Bgn_3eHP-g
I was looking recently into Cobourg Tourism promo videos. This is what Cobourg Tourism has achieved on YouTube as of June 14, 2021:
Cobourg’s Heritage, 2010, 520 views
(https://youtu.be/dTZN6xQHJJM)
Sandcastle Festival, 2010, 6,033 views
(https://youtu.be/S-dfhMZR5us)
The Waterfront, 2010, 421 views
(https://youtu.be/8i1MD889T-s)
Love Locks, 2013, 3,007 views
(https://youtu.be/r8JfxlfyoJY,)
Sand Castle Trailer, 2014, 2,814 views
(https://youtu.be/6ltTnmpl5Oo)
Welcome To Cobourg, 2014, 2,461 views (https://youtu.be/0_p1u8balGw)
Aerial View of Waterfront, 2015 1,115 views
(https://youtu.be/k1PoSnvB-vk)
Feel Good Town, 2015, 5,152 views
(https://youtu.be/X1Lle21pHFE)
Family Adventures, 2015, 1,060 views
(https://youtu.be/xnCplg8GofA)
Romantic Getaways, 2015, 2,181 views
(https://youtu.be/3tCEM00jqSo)
Patio Time, 2016, 303 views
(https://youtu.be/ini2FvQh6Ak)
Adventures In Cobourg, 2017, 38 views
(https://youtu.be/ZLvdiT4rbP8)
Family Fun, 2017, 43 views
(https://youtu.be/Ojp8dgIg27c)
Summer in Cobourg, 2017, 56 views
(https://youtu.be/JcquVet_UV0)
Town of Cobourg Canada Day, 2020, 1,654 views
(https://youtu.be/YmzzopITd38)
The Poppy Trail, 2020, 38 views
(https://youtu.be/ZMHoNVWahgA)
Christmas Magic in Cobourg, 2020, 1,871 views
(https://youtu.be/IOO_tTr543E ),.
Total views over eleven years; 28,767 views
Total number of ‘shares’: ZERO!
Total cost ?????
COMPARE
Last May, 2017, I came across a promotional video in Facebook,
Float Your Fanny Down the Ganny,
(https://www.facebook.com/floatyourfanny/videos/1240110102703366/)
It acquired 195,000 views in the first month.
It was also shared 2500+ times.
A single video brought a thousand plus people to witness the event. Many of these people brought their own video cameras, recorded the event, edited at home, then uploaded to YouTube. Every year, more videos are made and uploaded. These videos are free publicity forever. These videos are authentic, not promo-pro. Poet Hope has no need to ever again fund publicity for this event.
One video of a Port Hope event got 2500+ shares in a month;
Cobourg Tourism got ZERO shares from 17 videos over 11 years.
What we got here is a failure to communicate.
Cobourg Tourism produced 17 videos in 11 years to earn 28,767 views.
Port Hope Tourism produced 80 videos in 7 years to earn 643,297 views
Just how much $$$$ did taxpayers pay Cobourg Tourism for such pathetically miserable results? Does any Town staff review the results of the money spent? Cobourg Tourism is a disgrace in this regard.
For example: The Poppy Trail, which was produced last year and has gained a whopping 38 views. This video is a walking tour of Cobourg sites with an emphasis on Remembrance Day. This is a distinctive and unique video that deserves 1000s of views, especially by Cobourg residents.
The Poppy Trail received zero publicity on all the local news blogs because they were not told about it. Cobourg Tourism failed to complete its job by informing the public of this video about Cobourg’s military history.
Cobourg Tourism could have easily sent an email blast containing the link to The Poppy Trail to all municipal employees and recommending that they post the video on their social media sites to encourage making it viral.
The Cobourg Historical Society, Cobourg Legion and Library should have links to the video on their respective sites. There are many ways in which Cobourg Tourism could flog its videos to increase viewership, but they obviously have not cared to do anything to do that. Cobourg Tourism pays for the video, uploads it and then forgets it as if the job is done. Why has Town Council not extolled this video?
It would be advantageous for Cobourg Tourism to develop a coherent policy and protocols concerning how best to promote the videos before spending any further money on new videos.
And especially, forget making any more videos about the beach, because the people make promo videos of the beach and, often enough, they produce better videos and obtain thousands more views than Cobourg Tourism. Free publicity.
Seems to me that all fishermen has a personal responsibility take make arrangements for their fish cleaning waste. This comes in many ways: bringing a suitably cooler, check to see if either the area being fished has cleaning facilities, or if the fishing charter boat has appropriate cleaning arrangements.
Having the Marina stocking coolers/ice to be sold , also seems like a reasonable approach, if we are to encourage local fishing charters. Like most issues, it’s not easy , or even possible, to satisfy everyone.
Thats an option a Positive one not just another No in NoBurg
This is just like everything else the Town and its staff operate
Attract Tourists to the town Beach and Marina and don’t have BBQs or adequate parking for them .
Fund small business start up in our town like Tourist attracting Charter fishing–as we like the Business but not the clean up and garbage that comes along with it .
If the Towns Marina management ran a clean and proper ship there would be a decent cleaning station to meet demands I would be kept clean & waste removed accordingly ,
There should be no need for the other boaters to suffer due to the fact the Marina staff are above dealing with Fish Guts –Transfer them to the Dog Park refuse detail for a week .
There should be a proper fish cleaning station Even the smallest resorts on Rice lake have bigger and better facilities than Cobourg and the fisherman are not forced to line up under the sun in 90 degree temperatures. Besides as a tourists if I live in a water front Apt or condo
some yet come here to spend $500 to a $1,000 to charter a boat or launch mine at a fee where and how can I clean a few large fish and dispose of the waste .
Think about Florida , Key west Tourists and the income derived by attracting charter fishing
compared to a few fogies that just want to sit on their boats and drink Where is the Marina Tikki Bar
Sandpiper, is there anything you like about Cobourg, Town Staff, waterfront.
Yes their wages and benefits . I like Cobourg Grew up here I remember what it was THRIVEING—- I just don’t like what we are allowing it to become .
Why can’t we for once offer and provide a complete full service anything
Every thing is so half assed around here . If this Fishing sport was operated correctly and the staff dealt the garbage , maintained a proper cleaning station No one else would have anything to complain about or smell during their Happy hour . There is more for Cobourg to offer than just a Free Beach at the Residents expense .
If The present staff are to good or won’t do the job get a New Broom
Jeez Sandpiper I can agree with you on this one!!!
It seems that most people who work for the Town are related so no fear of the broom.
I would rather spend dollars attracting more charter boats. I consider the fisherman a better example of tourists and likely more willing to spend discretionary income here. I thing a NEW top of the line fish cleaning station should be built along with a bait and tackle shop. FYI I dont fish down there but the potential tourists dollars could be huge
Not only this but the eat in our restaurants and stay in our Hotels and motels
and have continued to do so for some 20 plus yrs several B & B s survive from this trade as well.
Informed:
You wrote “…the potential tourists dollars could be huge…”
How huge? Do you have a number or are you just guessing?
You also wrote “…a NEW top of the line fish cleaning station should be built along with a bait and tackle shop…”
Who should build this?
Where would it be located?
Are you offering to open such a business?
Sandpiper notes that fishermen have been coming to Cobourg for 20+ years. They seem to have managed just fine without a “top of the line” tackle and bait shop. If the demand was there, I’m sure someone would have taken advantage of the opportunity by now.
Since when do ideas and thoughts have to come with a list of answers and solutions. Did your high school teacher tell you not to ask any questions unless you already had the answer? I happen to think this Town needs to do be rebranded and spend money to attract tourists other than beach day trippers. We live on Lake Ontario,we have fish,people fish,people clean fish. These same people buy gas,food,lcbo,stay overnight etc. Build a top of the line fish cleaning station and charge them for its use.If we are willing to dig up dirty diapers in the sand for free,i have no problem with a fish claening station,althought the current one does not qualify.
Informed:
Excellent, and probably to your surprise, I agree with you that more “non-beach” tourists would be beneficial to the Town.
My point is that you presented your opinions (thoughts and ideas) as facts and solutions. Had you prefaced your comments with something like “in my opinion”, “I think” or “I believe”, readers would know that these comments are opinions and not offered as facts or solutions.
Nothing was offered as facts or solutions. Thats what you seemed to think I owed everyone. In my opinion, i simply offered some comments and opinions.
And I bet you most of these people lining up at our fish-cleaning station and putting fish guts in our garbage cans aren’t even from here!
Cobourg Taxpayers pay for those garbage cans!
The marina should be for the exclusive use of Cobourg residents and should be closed tight on weekends in order to send a clear message to out-of-towners that they are not welcome here! Let’s get a petition going and start phone-bombing the mayor.
Oh wait…we don’t care about about people from out of town at the marina. That sentiment is reserved exclusively for the beach.
I can’t imagine why.
If a previous Marina manager had not refused to open the then existing fish cleaning station, a part of the original Marina Bldg. a state of the art facility would still be there, But no – he didn’t open it and then sympathetic Councillors converted it to a public washroom, after having been a bicycle storage room for all the years he was manager.
How can we say on one hand we are proud of being the home to a substantial number of fishing boats and then refuse to allow them to clean their fish.
Of course one of the unintended consequences of this ruling is that the fish guts will be tipped into the harbour – something else for members of the Board to complain about – smelly fish guts in the water!
Addendum:
Ooops I wrote the last sentence without reading the second comment from Jimq26 – a complaint about the smelly fish guts – how prophetic of me!!
Let’s close the marina and put up a parking lot.
BS,
Any suggestions on where to buy water wings for cars so that they will be able to park in the water where the marina is.
Makes so much sense to eliminate that mess. Disgusting to be sitting on your boat relaxing after a nice sail and have fish guts float by attracting all sorts of bugs. Just as disgusting for people walking by the cleaning station or the waste barrels where they chuck the guts / fish scales / heads etc and catching a whiff of the stench. Good for you Julie – about time!!!
There is absolutely no reason an individual can not take their fish home and clean it. Bring or purchase a little ice for transporting and when you get home clean the fish. A simple, easy and respectful solution.
Right on J. Mitchell. My dad fished every weekend during the summer months. He always brought them home packed in ice and cleaned them in the kitchen sink.
The marina could sell cooler boxes and ice
All the way to Quebec?
I gave up fishing when I was younger when I realized that I couldn’t find fish that were breaded or battered.