Liberals win minority – Local MP returned

The Liberals won the election with another minority.  Of course special ballots (almost a million votes – mail in or well in advance) won’t be counted until Tuesday so the results for some seats won’t be known for a while.  But, as predicted by polls, local Conservative incumbent MP Philip Lawrence did win – see the numbers below. Notable results are in the PPC and Green Party.  Maxime Bernier’s party (PPC) did better although he personally came nowhere close to winning his seat – it was won by a Conservative.  And the Green vote was down with their leader losing badly although they still won 2 seats (down 1). BQ (+2) and NDP (+1) did about the same as in 2019 – as did the Liberals (+1) and Conservatives (-2).

So it looks like a minority Liberal Government with the Bloc or the NDP holding the balance of power.  But the local MP will be the same.

Trudeau, O’Toole, and Singh won their seats although Green party leader Annamie Paul and People’s Party Leader Maxime Berrnier lost badly.

If you watched the results on TV – all the pundits had their reasons why it went as it did, but few had the same story.

Results
21 September 7:45 am
Updated as new numbers are available.
299 of 300 polls reporting

  • Philip Lawrence – Conservative – 44.8% – 29,860 votes (39.7% in 2019)
  • Alison Lester – Liberal – 32.8 % – 21,896 votes (36.2% in 2019)
  • Kim McArthur-Jackson – New Democratic Party – 14.2% – 9,459 votes (13.9% in 2019)
  • Nathan Lang – People’s Party – 5.6% – 3,720 votes (2.1% in 2019)
  • Christina Wilson – Green Party- 2.6% – 1,715 votes (8.0% in 2019)

Local Voter Turnout: 66,650 of 100,308 registered electors (66.45 %) — does not include electors who registered on election day.
Voter Turnout – Canada: 15,993,868 of 27,366,297 registered electors (58.44 %)

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Kevin
26 September 2021 7:51 am

It is going to be interesting to learn what will happen in a month when the CRB (which replaced the CERB) ends. The $1000 for 2-weeks of the CRB is less than $15/hour for full-time work. There are people not taking available minimum wage jobs and collecting CRB benefits. Will they decide to work? The new minimum wage will be $14.35 soon but with the shortage of workers it is might be possible to start at $15.00. Some argue that this is not a living wage. Fair enough. How do people live on less than this (CRB) now? Will JT and his ‘clear mandate’ extend the CRB or introduce some kind of Basic Income? With new businesses opening in Cobourg (the 6 in the new building at the mall for example) and existing businesses not being able to find workers it will be difficult for small business owners. Either they will have to do more of the work themselves, reduce services or close the business. Simply paying more for labour is not so simple with low profit margins.

Keith Oliver
Reply to  Kevin
26 September 2021 8:40 am

Kevin

There are reports as of two weeks ago that prominent employers who rely on low wage employees are already offering hourly wages in excess of the minimum.

Trudeau said during the “Face to Face” interview series on CBC News Network with Rosemary Barton that the Universal Basic Annual Income (UBI) was too general. That depending on circumstances such as number and status of dependents, where one lived, personal ambitions, etc, some would receive too little, some too much.

Trudeau prefered a more targeted approach like the successful revised Child Benefit Program his government introduced, etc. In the case of the environment it’s Carbon Pricing.

As Churchill once said “While the Future is unknowable, the Past should give us hope!”

Kevin
Reply to  Keith Oliver
27 September 2021 8:28 am

So it seems there will be no national UBI unless of course JT, a politician, changes his mind. I thought one of the advantages of UBI was that it is general. It would replace several more targeted programs. Ontario Works and ODSP for example require staff to approve and monitor payments. I agree that personal ambition is a factor. If I had more ambition I could work more hours and have more income. For me it is a work-life balance decision. Once I have enough income to cover all living expenses for my family then I decide how to best use my time. I better go to work.

Keith Oliver
Reply to  Kevin
27 September 2021 6:24 pm

Kevin

Good points but bare with me.

‘”Personal ambition” does not mean whether or not you want to climb to the top of the Heap where he who dies with the most toys wins and your grave stone is more impressive than those around yours.

What I meant was that among the many alternatives it could mean a devoted wife or husband consiously being able to withdraw from the labour market and look after immediate family members such as a disabled child, or keeping an ailing senior at home, or providing an “in- home daycare service” to surrounding neighboursas they did at one time in Cobourg. Everyone of these would not only benefit all but would reduce costs paid out of the government’s Treasury.

Artists labour long and hard to challenge us, celebrate us through different media including poetry and literature. The film Iindustry in French Canada is the largest of its kind in the world, eclipsing that of France, the mother country.

Small business are the lifeblood of our capitalist economy but need forces such as costs to sort them out as viable members of our no-loads-bared free enterprise system.

In my opinion PM Trudeau is right in his assertion that economic aid should be targeted. Needs to work with others to determine who benefits.

Last edited 29 days ago by Keith Oliver
Ken Strauss
Reply to  Keith Oliver
27 September 2021 7:30 pm

Keith, I fear that you are confused. The reason that “the film industry in French Canada is the largest of its kind in the world, eclipsing that of France, the mother country” is not because of their special talent pool but that the taxpayers of Canada are forced to give over $100M each year to fund mostly Quebec based films.

Keith Oliver
Reply to  Ken Strauss
27 September 2021 10:27 pm

Ken. My point about Quebec being the centre of the production of French language films worldwide is not based on government subsidies but on the high quality of talent and creativeness in every aspect of film making and story telling that exists in that Province.

I grew up in Montreal, was bilingual, lived with my young family in Outremont, and did not leave until I was 32. Unfortunately with my failing memory I cannot give you the names. As well many French Canadian artists are well received in France and often get their start there. In addition Quebec has been given the right to join La Fracophonie, the world-wide Union of French speaking countries.

Last edited 28 days ago by Keith Oliver
Ken Strauss
Reply to  Keith Oliver
27 September 2021 10:47 pm

Keith, why are French language films relevant to an Ontario taxpayer? Why do you think that ANY expenditure to promote French language films is warranted? Did you note Wally’s statistics that appear to contradict your assertions?

Keith Oliver
Reply to  Ken Strauss
27 September 2021 11:28 pm

Ken

We’re drifting off topic. I brought up film making as part of the arts and culture community that could benefit from a directed or targeted UBI. As to why to include French films? Answer … Because we’re discussing Federal policy and programs and Quebec is part of Canada! Also Wally did not understand that film making includes made-for-television.

Keith Oliver
Reply to  Keith Oliver
27 September 2021 10:49 pm

Ken

Just had a quick look at my dusty record collection. Internationally know Quebec arts include Robert Charlebois, Roch Voisine, Louise Forestier and Nancy Dumais. There are many more, better known in France than here, unfortunately.

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Keith Oliver
27 September 2021 9:26 pm

Oliver wrote, “Artists labour long and hard to challenge us, celebrate us through different media including poetry and literature.

This quite a sophomoronic statement, especially since you have no idea whatsoever about poetry and literature. Matter of fact, you are a rank amateur in prose. Example. Oliver wrote “Good points but bare with me.

Here is your elementary school lesson concerning the proper use of the Queen’s English. It should have been written thusly: Good points but bear with me. Bear With Me or Bare With Me – The Correct Way to Use Each – Queens, NY English Society (queens-english-society.com)

Several times on this blog you have self-righteously scolded a poet for his “abuse” of language from your arrogant and condescending pulpit. The truth is that it is you, Oliver, who abuse the language with your overwhelming carelessness. You are a bald-faced hypocrite.  

Keith Oliver
Reply to  Wally Keeler
27 September 2021 9:58 pm

Wally

Several of us, Frenchy, Ken, Dubious, Kevin, Ben and I, are trying to have a reasonable conversation about the pros and cons of implementing a Universal Basic Income. Your personal comments are out of place and disrupt the debate. Instead tell us whether or not the arts and culture community would benefit from a UBI.

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Keith Oliver
27 September 2021 11:49 pm

Poets do not need a UBI because it is already available to them in several other forms. If you know anything about poetry and literature, which you do not, you’d know that.

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Keith Oliver
27 September 2021 9:58 pm

Oliver asserted “The film Iindustry in French Canada is the largest of its kind in the world, eclipsing that of France, the mother country.

There is no truth whatsoever to that assertion.

In the year 2012, France produced 582 films released in 84 countries.

In 2011 Canada (including Quebec) produced 91 movies whereas France produced more than 300 movies in the same year.

In 2013, France was the second largest exporter of movies after the USA.

A study in April 2014 showed the positive image which French cinema maintains around the world, being the most appreciated cinema after American cinema.

France is the most successful film industry in Europe in terms of number of films produced per annum, with a record-breaking 300 feature-length films produced in 2015

Compare that with the meagre output of Quebec producing only 620 feature-length films produced, or partially produced by the Quebec film industry since 1943. That’s 620 films produced over 79 years.

It would behoove you, Oliver, to desist posting fake news to this blog.

Keith Oliver
Reply to  Wally Keeler
27 September 2021 11:13 pm

Wally

The film work I refer includes made for television, again very populate among La Francophonie. I stand by my statements.

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Keith Oliver
27 September 2021 11:29 pm

Your statement has no factual basis. Matter of fact, you provided nothing to support your fake assertion, The stats I provided on lists from the Canada side included mad-for-tv movies. Frankly, Oliver, you haven’t a clue what you are talking about. I provided facts; you provided nothing except airy nothings.

Oliver wrote, “…very populate among …
For heaven’s sake Oliver, please stop your abuse of the Queen’s English. It should read — very popular among.

Last edited 28 days ago by Wally Keeler
Kevin
Reply to  Keith Oliver
28 September 2021 8:04 am

Keith,

I agree about the “personal ambition.” Very few people, men or women, want to make it to the ‘top’. To do so requires working long hours and not spending much time with family. I have prioritized spending time with family. My wife stayed home with the children and did some part-time work. My work hours are flexible which allowed me to do child care while my wife did her masters degree. This was possible because I worked full-time, before we had children, and managed the apartment building I lived in. I saved for a down payment and was able to buy a house. My ambition is to be a good father.

Keith Oliver
Reply to  Kevin
28 September 2021 9:42 am

Kevin

Well done. Through my work life as an architect, a construction manager and an urban designer I’ve had meaningful relationships with many very different people from many very different backgrounds. I didn’t plan it that way, it just happened that way. I consider myself lucky to have had that kind of experience.

Considering how different individuals are, one from another, how widely personal ambition can vary, and how important parents are as well as the circumstances of the times in which you are raised, it’s a wonder to me that we all work together as well as we do as an organized and progressive society, especially Canada.

The factors that are most important in creating a satisfactory life, dealing with problems, whatever they may be, are a consistent place of one’s own in which you can find peace, a reliable source of food, and meaningful and dependable relationships with others.

Some folks have great difficulty achieving these and they are the ones that need our help, either as a caring neighbour or as one creating government policy and programs. I believe it’s called giving them a hand up, not a hand out and this is one of the important goals that s program of directed UBI should be all about.

Unfortunately Ontario Premier Doug Ford cancelled an experiment that was only half complete, one that was trying to find out how effective directed assistance can be, almost as soon as he came into office. So much for rational attempts at making progress.

Last edited 28 days ago by Keith Oliver
Frenchy
Reply to  Kevin
26 September 2021 8:58 am

Don’t disagree with you Kevin, but a couple of points:
• CRB pays $600.00 every 2 weeks, not the $1000.00 that CERB did.
• re: new biz not getting enough local workers… Burger King up on Division St. has entire crews commute in from Peterborough.

ben
Reply to  Kevin
26 September 2021 5:40 pm

Simply paying more for labour is not so simple with low profit margins”

Perhaps the business plan should be amended if it results in low margins. Owners should decide if they want to be in a real business or just run a ‘vanity project’.

Kevin
Reply to  ben
27 September 2021 7:58 am

Many young people start their working careers with low-wage jobs. It helps them learn to work with others, follow a schedule and develop a positive work ethic. These skills will help to get better jobs. It is my understanding that grocery stores have very low mark up on food. What if prices for food were increased from wholesale to retail the same amount as clothing and cell phones? Employees could be paid more. But, if somebody thought they could make a profit a new grocery store would open with a different business plan. Perhaps a plan that has increased volume of sales and lower prices. A real problem is that some people do not have the abilities to do higher skilled, better paying jobs. We may all have equal rights but we do not all have the same abilities.

Dunkirk
25 September 2021 8:26 pm

If you take the top 20% of Canadian Ridings, by population density, you have the 68 most ‘urbanized’ ridings in Canada. Or, the Ridings where the jobs and the people are.
Here’s how the parties did in those Ridings:
Liberal- 56
NDP-9
BQ-2
Green-1
Conservative-0

Yes–the Liberals won their mandate with only 1/3rd of the popular vote, but, their message by this measure, resonates with the voters that matter.
Other select parties(and Leaders) are conspicuous with their lack of meaningful success in these ridings, no?

Ken Strauss
Reply to  Dunkirk
25 September 2021 10:54 pm

Dunkirk, why do you feel that the residents in the most ‘urbanized’ ridings are the voters that matter? Surely all voters matter equally in a democracy.

Kevin
Reply to  Dunkirk
26 September 2021 7:12 am

No. All voters matter. The most ‘urbanized’ ridings are more likely to have government offices, school board offices, etc. The less populated areas of Canada produce food, cut lumber and mine minerals. Voters from these areas matter. Are the Liberals conspicuous with their lack of success in the less populated ridings?

Ken Strauss
Reply to  Dunkirk
26 September 2021 12:36 pm

Dunkirk, could it be that the Liberals and NDP are favoured because central urban ridings tend to have lower median incomes than suburban and lower density ridings? Vote buying goodies — free childcare, PharmaCare, tax-the-rich, “affordable” housing, UBI — might appeal to less affluent voters. See https://lactualite.com/politique/les-banlieues-nanties-ces-circonscriptions-qui-font-et-defont-des-gouvernements/ for an interesting analysis.

Wally Keeler
25 September 2021 12:13 pm

As much as Mr Oliver is an apologist for the current Prime Minister of Canada, a vast majority of Canadians think the PM left the country more divided and want him to go away. That political idiot asserts a “clear mandate” when reality says otherwise. After all, what can be done when he postures his mother as a distant relative just to escape the accountability for the WE scandal.

The vast majority (77%) of Canadians believe the country is more divided now than it was before the election was called. Only one quarter (23%) say the country is more unified since Prime Minister Justin Trudeau stood in front of the Governor General’s residence and announced that Canadians would be going to the polls on September 20, 2021.”

“a majority (55%) of Canadians believe Prime Minister Justin Trudeau should resign as the leader of the Liberal Party and commence a process where a new leader can be chosen”

Maru Public Opinion – A Divided Country (squarespace.com) 

Keith Oliver
Reply to  Wally Keeler
25 September 2021 1:42 pm

Wally

If by “that political idiot” you mean our Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, I object. You demeen the leader of one of the world’s most successful pluralistic, liberal parliamentary democracies.

Our Constitution and Charter of Rights and Freedoms is now taken as a model by more emerging democracies than those of the United States.Disagree as much as you want but I urge you to respect the institution and those our electoral system has put into government.

If you group the four main party’s into Right and Left, ie the PPC and the Conservatives on the right and the Liberals and New Democates on the left, the Left won approximately two million more votes than the Right.

That is the simplest and most accurate measure of whether or not the electorate approves of the policies and programmes put into place by the Federal Minority Government formed in the election of 2019 and lead by The Right Honourable Justin Trudeau.

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Keith Oliver
25 September 2021 6:57 pm

Mr Oliver asserted, “Bernier’s diatribes are a threat to democratic/constitutional order.

I request that you explain your smear against Bernier. Just how is he a threat to the “democratic/constitutional order”?

Keith Oliver
24 September 2021 11:16 am

The summary of issues surrounding the Sept20 election posted by Doug at 9:54 am on Sept 21 makes eminent sense. I’ve copied it and sent it to a number of friends. His use of the word fascist is a bit extreme but not too far off the mark. PPC leader Maxime Berniere’s inflammatory language and the fact that so many feel left out of our economy, especially as more and more wealth becomes concentrated in the hands of fewer and fewer, can find a parallel in the rise of Hitler and fascism in port-WWI Germany. The June 1919 Treaty of Versailles imposed disastrous reparations, virtually destroyed the German economy and caused great disillusionment among the German people which they took out on their government. Hitler took advantage of this disillusionment and through his version of populism caused the destruction of the democratic Weimar Republic. Although, in the end, Canada approved the conditions of the Treaty, PM Borden expressed grave reservation that the conditions were too extreme. Many Germans had opposed the war. Borden was right and the result was WWII. One item I would add is how destructive the reporting of the press has been when it came to the so-called WE Scandal and the Jody Wilson-Raybould SNC-Lavilan Affaire. Trudeau had absolutely nothing to gain in the former. Before he acted he double checked with the bureaucracy which had recommended WE. According to definitions used in the Ethical Standards set for parliamentarians, his mother and bother were not considered part of his immediate family and their dealings with WE were therefore irrelevant. But of course the media kept that falsehood alive. Bad news sells better than good news. As to Jody Wilson-Raybould, the whole affair should have been kept in Cabinet with her resigning publicly if she did not agree… Read more »

Ken Strauss
Reply to  Keith Oliver
24 September 2021 1:46 pm

Keith, I don’t entirely disagree.

To your point that WE was not a conflict of interest, you might want to consider events in Cobourg. Our former Mayor provided questionable support to a relative while claiming that the relative was his wife’s relative rather than his. Often the appearance of a conflict is vastly more important than the actual legal definition of a conflict.

You mentioned that the Treaty of Versailles imposed disastrous reparations on Germany but ignored that the government printed money to pay non-working workers in the Ruhr, prices spiraled out of control, there were many fractious minority parties working to sabotage the national government and eventually the Weimar Republic fell. Have you considered possible parallels between those events, the rise of the PQ, the denigration of previously revered Canadians, COVID and the Liberal’s enormous deficits together with the crippling of our industries to fight climate change?

Last edited 1 month ago by Ken Strauss
Keith Oliver
Reply to  Ken Strauss
24 September 2021 9:25 pm

Ken

What I’ve described is simple but true. The complications that you suggest can be argued into infinity. In the present we need to be aware of similar situationis in the past and what we can learn from them. Bernier’s diatribes are a threat to democratic/constitutional order.

As to the deficit, I’ve addressed that in previous blogs. Canada has the lowest debit to GDP ratio of any G7 country. Funny how businesses can go into debit at a much higher rates than governments and that’s OK. Enough! I’ve made my point

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Keith Oliver
24 September 2021 11:17 pm

Mr Oliver asserted, “Bernier’s diatribes are a threat to democratic/constitutional order.”

I request that you explain this smear job against Bernier. Just how is he a threat to the “democratic/constitutional order”?

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Keith Oliver
24 September 2021 8:38 pm

Mr Oliver commented, “According to definitions used in the Ethical Standards set for parliamentarians, his mother and bother(sic) were not considered part of his immediate family…

So every member of Parliament who came out of a mother’s body with an umbilical attachment should not consider their mothers as part of their immediate family. What kind of govern mental deficiency would devalue the worth of mothers, devalue their enormous influence on any and every family, especially children. All those men who died of wounds on the battlefield cried out for their mother. That is immediate from the hearts of those who died. A child is the beating heart of a mother outside her body. What kind of leader would find this ethical? Why, that would be the Prime Minister of Canada, who won his office with the lowest winning percentage by any government in Canadian history. For every vote that the Prime Minister of Canada received, Canadians sent him two votes of non-confidence. I won’t forget that the Prime Minister of Canada lied to me, and all Canadians, by claiming that he obtained a “clear mandate

And that is called ethics? I call it post-nutritive disposal substance. (That’s a NASA phrase)

Keith Oliver
Reply to  Wally Keeler
24 September 2021 9:09 pm

Wally

PM Trudeau had nothing to gain n the so-called WE scandal. The media and his unprincipled political opponents did. The definition of immediate family is that established by the Ethics Commissioner, not the existence of an unbilical chord.

Frenchy
Reply to  Keith Oliver
24 September 2021 9:42 pm

Nothing to gain, but everything to lose. That’s why he (and he alone) prorogued parliament, to put an end to the committee and their findings, lest they be found out.

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Keith Oliver
24 September 2021 10:32 pm

The Ethics Commissioner denies that a mother is an immediate family member and you are OK with this? It is grossly illogical.

It is this sort of govern mental stupidity that makes the Prime Minister of Canada claim a “clear mandate” in spite of the overwhelming fact that that he won the “lowest winning percentage by any government in Canadian history.” Wow! What an accomplishment!

The current Prime Minister of Canada lied when he claimed that 1/3rd of Canadians gave him a “clear mandate”, when it is clear that 2/3rds of Canadians did not give him a “clear mandate”. I understand that he got a mandate from the electoral system, but clearly not from the Canadian people. The Prime Minister of Canada received 863,000 fewer votes than in the previous election. The Prime Minister of Canada is in decline. He is not on the ascent. He is a deluded loser.

Keith Oliver
Reply to  Wally Keeler
25 September 2021 9:21 pm

Wally

While this may be too late in this blog, I believe your statements about 1/3 and 2/3 are wrong and rely on overly simplistic analysis by the “talking heads”, even those like Vashey Kapelos of CBC TV.

Please read the second to last paragraph in my posting of 1:42 pm on Sept 25.

Once again your terminology, “defunded loser” and “mental stupidity” make your otherwise interesting arguments less respected my me and others.

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Keith Oliver
26 September 2021 8:45 am

Mr Oliver, I understand that you have no respect for me, and it shows by your avoidance to answer the question I put to you below. You display your own disrespect towards others when you smear Mr Bernier and all the 800,000+ voters with your unkindly language. If you want to posture as a chronic scold about abuse of language, I can say that you participate in the same thing. So this is my third ask — please explain your comment about Bernier.

Mr Oliver asserted, “Bernier’s diatribes are a threat to democratic/constitutional order.”

I request that you explain this smear job against Bernier. Just how is he a threat to the “democratic/constitutional order”?

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Keith Oliver
24 September 2021 11:13 pm

Mr Oliver commented, “The media and his unprincipled political opponents did.

That’s quite the smear job. The media are lapdogs for the Prime Minister of Canada. He gifted $600,000,000 of taxpayers money over five years beginning in 2020. It is mostly a labour tax credit that bolsters the salaries of working journalists.

Qualified Canadian journalism organizations will be able to claim a 25 per cent refundable tax credit on the salaries of eligible workers, subject to a cap of $55,000, for a maximum tax credit of $13,750 per employee. Who pays the piper calls the tune. This, of course, was not enough, so the Prime Minister of Canada added another $61,000,000 billed as “emergency relief.” That is on top of the annual funding of publishers via Canada Periodical Fund.

The media doesn’t smear the Prime Minister of Canada. These paid lapdogs smear the likes of Maxime Bernier with the usual “white nationalist, white supremacist, fascist, bordering on fascism, dog whistling smears. These are hit jobs financed by the Prime Minister of Canada who asserted that Canadians have no right to know who received the $61,000,000 largesse. Luckily, Canadaland published the list of media recipients. You can obtain the list at the bottom of this Which Media Benefitted From The Trudeau Government’s Covid-19 Funds? (canadaland.com)

Ken Strauss
Reply to  Wally Keeler
24 September 2021 9:34 pm

For an in depth discussion of conflict of interest, https://www.canada.ca/en/treasury-board-secretariat/services/values-ethics/conflict-interest-post-employment/apparent-conflict-interest.html is worth a read. “Public servants in the Government of Canada are required to be as concerned with preventing apparent conflicts of interest as they are with preventing real and potential conflicts of interest … given its implications for the integrity of government, the public service, and individual public servants.”

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Ken Strauss
24 September 2021 11:19 pm

Thanks for this link Ken

Keith Oliver
Reply to  Ken Strauss
27 September 2021 4:32 am

Ken

Your reference is interesting as an encouragement for those “who hold a job in the public service” or are “public servants”, to develop and/or administer government policies and programs fairly and without bias … but it clearly does not apply to our elected representatives.

Ken Strauss
Reply to  Keith Oliver
27 September 2021 8:39 am

Your reference is interesting … but it clearly does not apply to our elected representatives.

Keith, if correct, that is an appalling observation! Leaders should be held to a much higher standard of conduct than their underlings. Justin is not the only politician so please do not malign them all based on the conduct of one with low standards.

Last edited 29 days ago by Ken Strauss
Kevin
22 September 2021 6:36 pm

In the comments below there seems to be some interest in changing our version of a democratic election system. By no means do I know what would work best but if enough people do not like first-past-the-post then maybe it should go. Is a vote in order? Elections and referendums are expensive. For the next federal election it would be interesting if there was an option to vote for a new system. Instead of speculating why only 58% of voters voted we would know how many people want change. What would happen if 42% of voters vote for change? Surely the new government would have a “clear mandate” to change our voting system.

Last edited 1 month ago by Kevin
Steve Wilkes
Reply to  Kevin
23 September 2021 8:14 am

The current system of First Past the Post when combined with today’s political discourse and marry in the quality of leadership, is consistently producing more minority gov results, with a non voting block equal in size to the leading parties… The leadership is not inspiring people and the political discourse is stifling meaningful and constructive debate. Will moving to a new system, change the quality of leadership and the political discourse? I doubt it.

Ken Strauss
Reply to  Steve Wilkes
23 September 2021 12:37 pm

Using the current voting system to approve moving to a different system — proportional representation or ranked ballots or whatever — doesn’t seem entirely rational.

Wally Keeler
22 September 2021 1:44 pm

GUNTER: An election full of many losses | Toronto Sun

When JT called the election he said it was the “most important, historic and consequential” election since WW2.

JT received 863,000 fewer votes in 2021 than he did in 2019. 

JT finished 2nd in popular vote behind Conservatives for the 2nd election in a row.

JT received 32.2% of the popular vote, the lowest winning percentage by any government in Canadian history – the absolute lowest.

Trudeau claimed Monday evening that he now has a “clear mandate” to implement “progressive” reforms of Canadian society and of the economy.

The only party to receive substantially more votes than last time was Maxime Bernier’s People’s Party. It received 815,000 votes, up from 294,000 votes in 2019. According to DOUG these 815,000 “supporters border on fascism and hatred of non whites.”

Mark
Reply to  Wally Keeler
23 September 2021 7:07 am
Wally Keeler
Reply to  Mark
25 September 2021 12:36 pm

This is a hit piece, a smear job. It contains:
12 mentions of “white” nationalism, supremacy,
12 mentions of “far-right”
5 mentions of “extremist”
5 mentions of extremism
3 mentions of Neo-Nazis
by three primary sources
Centre on HATE, Bias and Extremism
Canadian Anti-HATE Network.
and extremism researcher and assistant professor, at Queen’s University, Amarnath Amarasingam. I think everyone basically has to become an extremism watcher

Essentially, this is a call for Canadian people to become political finks, righteous snitches. Reminds me of the Stasi in the socialist dictatorshit of East Germany. They were political thugs suppressing dissent. These self-declared hate orgs specialize in political smears.

Keith Oliver
Reply to  Wally Keeler
23 September 2021 10:44 pm

Wally

Who or what is DOUG?

Mark
22 September 2021 7:33 am

For everyone whining about the election , you should watch this
Why you should vote: Democracy is crucial, even if the election results don’t change much
https://globalnews.ca/video/8211148/why-you-should-vote-democracy-is-crucial-even-if-the-election-results-dont-change-much

Last edited 1 month ago by Mark
Mark
21 September 2021 12:58 pm

The cost of the election is a non issues since , it would have been spent in two years or sooner
also remember The CPC or should I be writing the Reform Party also called a snap election in 2008

Bill Thompson
Reply to  Mark
21 September 2021 3:42 pm

There already is a runaway huge ever increasing GDP deficit that payoff will be extended into how many future generations?
Now another $600 MILLION added to start a third term election just added by the Liberal government …and it’s a “non-issue” ?!!
Was there a world wide / national virus pandemic occurring in 2008 ?

Mark
Reply to  Bill Thompson
21 September 2021 8:12 pm

you should be happy that you have an opportunity to be able to vote in an election that means something
not like the Russian election that is fix
Did you complain about the snap election in 2008 ?

JimT
Reply to  Bill Thompson
22 September 2021 5:18 pm

For the record: GDP (Gross Domestic Product) and the annual budget deficit are two very different things.
Just to clarify.

marya
21 September 2021 12:53 pm

An election was called to check on the progress that was in existence. Those who casted ballots chose an affirmation to continue with the status quo.

George Taylor
Reply to  marya
21 September 2021 4:32 pm

popular vote shows the conservatives with 170.000 nore votes than liberals

Bryan
Reply to  George Taylor
21 September 2021 5:03 pm

GT:
It’s the number of ridings won that counts, not the popular vote. Just as in the US, it’s the states’ electoral votes, not the popular vote, that determine the presidency. The “correctness and fairness” of this system is certainly hotly debated and perhaps the system will be changed one day.
Until then, popular vote comparisons are just interesting stats.

Ken Strauss
Reply to  Bryan
22 September 2021 8:10 am

Bryan, of course popular vote comparisons are irrelevant to which party is in power. However, popular vote rather than seats is a far better measure of approval/disapproval for the status quo mentioned by marya.

ben
Reply to  George Taylor
22 September 2021 10:38 am

pity they were all out west with no impact. Popular vote is a ridiculous measure!

Informed
Reply to  marya
21 September 2021 10:13 pm

Could have conducted a poll for that instead of a 600 milion dollar election. What a waste

Steve Wilkes
21 September 2021 11:46 am

I think the real question is: Why did only 58% of eligible voters vote in this election? All the parties are missing the mark and no party is actually inspiring the nation to vote. The Liberals love a crisis so they show sympathy, and then speak of intentions to address the issues, with no actual plan. The conservatives are still trying to figure out how to collectively be fiscally responsible while helping the average person. The NDP are not backed by the 1% players that really control the economy, because the NDP are viewed as a threat to the 1% players! The Greens, BQ, and PPC are just wasting their time as the issues they represent will be high jacked by the Liberals or Conservatives if the politics warrant adoption of their ideas. Mean while 42% of the voters seem to be just fed up with Government and might see Government and the political discourse as the real problem, and they don’t want to participate in the process.

Beach walker
21 September 2021 11:46 am

Sad to see Lawrence got back in. I have had conversations with him and find him rude, obnoxious and full of himself. Not a leader, in my opinion.

Dubious
Reply to  Beach walker
21 September 2021 6:52 pm

I find him rude, obnoxious and full of himself. Not a leader, in my opinion.

Beach walker, that would describe Justin rather well!

Doug
21 September 2021 9:54 am

It is easy to criticise JT. I can too …and I voted for him! He says great things but does not thoroughly follow through. Hopefully he takes some lesson out of this election and this next term becomes his Great Hurrah! ( Dreamer?) But, what is the alternative? Berniere and his supporters border on fascism and hatred of non whites.O’Toole supports mostly people who do not need support. He would cut taxes – of course. But if we are lucky enough to pay taxes then likely we don’t need much help from government. Lots of people do need help! There is a larger and larger group of people who will never affford a home in this country. A young couple in any city, with kids and no or little post secondary education will be stretched to pay their rent, never mind to buy a house. Growing up in the 50s and 60s we were blessed by a growing/booming economy and mostly incredible work oportunities. Stronger unions ment better wages for the working class. We need a government that is willing to work towards a much greater equality in Canada. It is clear that the Cons and O’Toole would not be that government. His Day Care plan alone explains it all – It was to be based on a tax rebate to lower earners! So right off the bat he is eliminating the urban poor who do not make enough to pay much in taxes. Those are the very people who need day care the most – so they can get out of poverty and get to work. The current fee for day care in Toronto is equal to the percentage of income that we paid for our mortgages back in the day. $1,500 to $2000 per month for Day Care… Read more »

Scottie
Reply to  Doug
21 September 2021 10:20 am

Hopefully the Liberal Party will realize that $600 million to stroke Trudeau’s ego was just the last straw and demand a leadership review.

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Doug
21 September 2021 4:47 pm

:”Berniere and his supporters border on fascism and hatred of non whites.”

Give us some facts to support this egregious slander?

Kevin
Reply to  Doug
22 September 2021 7:30 am

Doug wrote:
“He would cut taxes – of course. But if we are lucky enough to pay taxes then likely we don’t need much help from government. Lots of people do need help!”
Yes, lots of people do need help. How about trying to help people to help themselves? Teaching/helping people to be more independent by taking jobs that are available, making the best choices on how to spend limited money, etc. can go a long way. It will not work for everybody. Lots of people talk about rights but you cannot have rights without responsibility. If I have the right to send my children to subsidised day care do I not also have the responsibility to work and pay taxes? Who has the responsibility to pay for the day care?

Lemon Cake
21 September 2021 8:15 am

As much as this election was about many important issues and challenges, it all came down to COVID response for me. My livelihood has been adversely impacted by the pandemic response (as has my kids’ education) and while the Liberals have not been great, the risk for me was that the Conservatives would make it worse by pandering to part of their base in Alberta. Everyone wants out of this pandemic – the risk is that ideology keeps us locked into it. I don’t relish higher corporate taxes or having capital gains tax hiked up or untenable national debt. But I do think the short-term need to put COVID behind us played a much bigger role in this election than many were willing to admit.

Old Sailor
Reply to  Lemon Cake
21 September 2021 9:40 am

Lemon Cake – I agree with your assessment of the impact of COVID policy on the election outcome for the Conservatives. In my view the Federal and Provincial Conservative parties need to completely refresh their backroom strategic thinking pool of advisers. The Liberal strategists know what to have their leader and candidates say to get re-elected. The Conservative strategists don’t.

ben
Reply to  Old Sailor
21 September 2021 3:07 pm

I would disagree that the lib strategists knew how to say what they needed to say. They never did design an answer to “Why are we having this election?”
Had they done so there would have been a majority.

Jeffy
Reply to  Lemon Cake
21 September 2021 2:47 pm

Pandering to Alberta? At least the Conservatives would at least listen to Alberta. They are by far the worst treated province by the feds and without them you would starve!

Lemon Cake
Reply to  Jeffy
22 September 2021 8:54 am

Jeffy, I agree with you re. Alberta – and it was a bad example for me to use. I think what ultimately hurt O’Toole was the refusal of some of his candidates to disclose vaccine status. For me, it was a non-starter. Otherwise I think O’Toole did a fairly decent job of addressing moderates (like me) and hopefully the Conservatives don’t instantly turf him. Might be a better candidate for different, non-pandemic times.

Cobourg taxpayer
21 September 2021 12:13 am

Trudeau in his quest to win a majority government did not and wasted $600 million and is back where he started as predicted. How anyone can vote for this guy is beyond me but apparently many can. Once again it looks like the Conservatives win the popular vote but due to Trudeau breaking his promise to replace first past the post voting system we are in the same situation as 30 days ago but $600 million taxpayers dollars have been wasted. Apparently this does not matter to Liberal voters.

Just Wondering
Reply to  Cobourg taxpayer
21 September 2021 7:29 am

It matters but some people just don’t like the alternatives.

Elmo
Reply to  Just Wondering
21 September 2021 8:09 am

For many of us there simply was no viable/acceptable alternative. The democratic system is alive and well.

Bill Thompson
Reply to  Elmo
21 September 2021 3:22 pm

There is a well known saying “You can fool me once ,shame on you, you can fool me twice shame on me”
This election result at the cost of $600 MILLION now necessitates a third saying “You can fool me Three times shame on ………
Complete it to describe the present questionable mentality of the voting public.

cornbread
Reply to  Cobourg taxpayer
21 September 2021 8:32 am

Americans elected Biden and look where he has taken them…Mr. Dressup continues in Canada…O’Toole could have done better had put his politics further away from the Liberal platform…like his position on the Carbon Tax.

Bryan
Reply to  Cobourg taxpayer
21 September 2021 1:13 pm

Cobourg taxpayer:

You wrote: “… replace first past the post voting system…” I agree that there are problems with the current system, but I don’t think other methods such as proportional representation or ranked ballot are the answer either. All of the alternatives have their pros and cons, so it’s a matter of which poison do you prefer.

The current system produced the following absurdities:

The Liberals got 158 seats on 32.2% PV: Yield per 1% PV (popular vote): 4.9 seats

The BQ won 34 seats with 7.7% of the popular vote. Yield per 1% PV (popular vote): 4.4 seats Why the BQ is allowed to run in a federal election is a totally different and equally serious question.

The Conservatives got 119 seats on 34 % PV: Yield per 1% PV (popular vote): 3.5 seats

The NDP won 25 seats with 17.7% of the popular vote: Yield per 1% PV (popular vote): 1.4 seats, a third of the BQ’s result.

The Greens got 2 seats on 2.3% PV: Yield per 1% PV (popular vote): 0.87 seats

The PPC got 0 seats on 5.1%PV: Yield per 1% PV (popular vote): 0 seats

Ahewson
Reply to  Bryan
21 September 2021 2:19 pm

Worth noting that proportional representation would have left leaning parties ahead of right leaning parties. The Cons would have the most votes but the Liberals/NDP would hold the balance of power.

Admittedly I’m not sure how parliament runs under that system.

ben
Reply to  Ahewson
21 September 2021 3:12 pm

From the Toronto Star:
Fournier’s projections show that under a proportional representation that makes the number of overall votes a party receives as proportional to the number of seats it gets in Parliament, this week’s results would have left the Liberals and Conservatives with 109 seats each; the NDP with 65 seats; the Bloc with 24 seats; the PPC with 21 and the Green party with 11.”

Now that would be a Parliament to watch!

Wellington Rae Waring
Reply to  ben
21 September 2021 6:17 pm

A parliament containing many delegates appointed by party hacks with no affiliation to Northumberland

ben burd
Reply to  Wellington Rae Waring
21 September 2021 9:08 pm

Depends what system is adopted. Closed lists are no longer in the design – keep up.

JimT
Reply to  Cobourg taxpayer
21 September 2021 9:33 pm

OK, but remember: none of that $600+ million was destroyed in the process.
It was all spent right here in Canada on salaries, wages, transportation, advertising and such.

It doesn’t seem quite so bad if you think of it as temporary economic stimulus providing short-term employment for certain Canadians.

Informed
Reply to  JimT
22 September 2021 10:12 am

I would have rather seen the 600 million go towards clean drinking water for indigenous communities still waiting.