Move on Council to Open Beach on Weekends

At tonight’s Committee of the Whole Council meeting, Councillor Nicole Beatty  moved that the beach be opened on weekends as well as weekdays effective June 26.  She was supported by Councillor Burchat but Mayor Henderson wanted any opening delayed past July 1.  However, before there was any debate, Town Clerk Brent Larmer pointed to a procedural problem:  a previous approved motion closed the beach on weekends until September so a new motion cannot proceed without a motion to re-consider.  He suggested ways to overcome this but they required a two-thirds majority vote.  A more moderate approach would be to go through a process which would delay a final vote for a couple of meetings, but it would allow input from the public and allow Councillors time to think it through.

Separately, Deputy Director Teresa Behan reported that, so far, the beach has had 300-500 people per day on weekdays.

If Councillor Beatty’s motion were passed, it would have called for the same rules – a capacity limited to 1200 or the Beach would be closed.  Clarification of what this meant was that if the number got to 1200, no more people would be allowed on the beach and anyone leaving would not be allowed to return.

First, to implement the change at tonight’s Council meeting,  as a first step, a two-thirds vote to suspend the rules of order would be needed.  There would then be other votes  (at least one needing a two-thirds majority). These would include a notice of motion to reverse the previous vote then a new motion to open the beach 7 days at 1200 capacity.

But in the end, the vote to suspend the rules of order was defeated.  This now means that any re-opening won’t happen until mid-July if it happens at all.

As well as Nicole, Aaron Burchat and Adam Bureau did support opening so it’s likely that a motion will be added to the Agenda on June 28 with the necessary other votes happening after that.  A final vote would be by mid-July.

Stay tuned.

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MCGA
5 July 2021 8:53 am

It is entirely understandable that after two weeks of vainly trying to build a consensus to open the Town beach on weekends, the petition to do so has garnered a grand total of 88 signatures. That, of course, compares terribly to the over 1,000 signatures, in the same timeframe, to close it last season and the over 1,400 supporters to close it at the point of presentation to Cobourg Town Council. Clearly, this group is manifestly out of step with the views of the majority of the Town. It continually throws up red herrings such as “out of towner hate” to obscure the fact that they simply believe themselves entitled. And, as one other contributor pointed out, selfishly focused only upon themselves rather than the community at large. They should be treated as the very minor minority they are…the tail does not wag the dog.

Wally Keeler
30 June 2021 6:29 am

The Delta variant Delta variant Covid symptoms ‘include headaches, sore throat and runny nose’ | Coronavirus | The Guardian

Headaches, a sore throat and a runny nose are the most common symptoms associated with the UK’s most widely established Covid variant, researchers have said. The data, collected as part of the app-based Zoe Covid symptom study, suggests that the Delta variant first detected in India feels like a “bad cold”, according to Tim Spector, a professor of genetic epidemiology at King’s College London, who is leading the work.

Be very afraid, be very very afraid.

Wally Keeler
28 June 2021 11:00 am
MCGA
Reply to  Wally Keeler
28 June 2021 12:02 pm

Likely the same group that cheats on their taxes, speeds in a school zone, relieves themselves in Victoria Park and believes that seat belts are an affront to their personal freedom. They also consider limericks real literature.

BTW, Hong Kong just banned all flights from the UK due to the Delta variant.

Wally Keeler
Reply to  MCGA
28 June 2021 6:08 pm

BTW, Hong Kong is part of the CCP, and let us not forget that the CCP banned all flights from Wuhan to anywhere else in China but knowingly permitted contaminated flights to the rest of the world.

MCGA
Reply to  Wally Keeler
28 June 2021 10:06 pm

Has nothing to do with Hong Kong’s motivation to limit their risk (only 10% fully vaccinated). China has not banned UK flights but Malta has and both Spain and Portugal have strict quarantine requirements for any UK traveler.

Wally Keeler
Reply to  MCGA
30 June 2021 6:13 am
Deborah OConnor
Reply to  Wally Keeler
29 June 2021 7:28 pm

Verify please.

Keith Oliver
Reply to  MCGA
29 June 2021 6:09 pm

MCGA … or who ever you are.

The worst thing you can do in a disagreemrnt is to belittle those you disagree with. They have strongly held beliefs, sources of information they believe are credible, just like you and I.

If you want to diswade those you disagree with find out why they believe the way they do, not group them with those who urinate in Victoria Park.

Initially those who supported Donld Trump and MAGA (any relation to your nom-de-plume?) had suffered at the hands of the obsene increase in the disparity of wealth in the US, and rightly so. That desecration of the intent ofJefferson’s Declaration of Independence is also reflected in the fact that until very recently the vast majority of those elected to the US Congess were multi-milionaires.

But I digress! My point is that while the opposite may feel good, beng respectful is how we make progress.

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Keith Oliver
30 June 2021 10:18 am

I’m his favourite whipping boy on this blog.

MCGA
Reply to  Keith Oliver
30 June 2021 12:23 pm

Alternatively, those who deserve respect, receive it. Those who invite derision, receive it. In candor, I do not write to persuade Covidiots that they have the medicine wrong, or the statistics wrong, or the risk factors wrong; I am writing to offer information and an argument to those who wish to hear something other than the nonsense promulgated by Wally, et al. I could debate Jeffersonian history, US wealth disparity post 2008 financial crisis, or the consequence of guys in congress having a million bucks, but all that is of little relevance, actually none, to Covid risk to Cobourg with the Delta variant,
“Enlighten the people generally, and tyranny and oppressions of the body and mind will vanish like evil spirits at the dawn of day.” Jefferson

Wally Keeler
Reply to  MCGA
30 June 2021 3:06 pm

Address this MCGA: “Headaches, a sore throat and a runny nose are the most common symptoms associated with the UK’s most widely established Covid variant, researchers have said.”

Keith Oliver
Reply to  MCGA
1 July 2021 8:02 am

With unmitigated eloquence Jefferson makes my point. Stick to enlightenment and not derision and the good information you often provide will have a much better chance of getting through.

I know of many that do not read these entries because of the silliness and personal exchanges that soon usurp this wonderful and important device that John has created. My sympathies to him. Along with other nobel qualities he must have great patience.

Anna
Reply to  MCGA
30 June 2021 9:51 am

“The UK will introduce a new visa at the end of January that will give 5.4 million Hong Kong residents – a staggering 70% of the territory’s population – the right to come and live in the UK, and eventually become citizens.” (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-55357495) Can MCGA in his wisdom see a connection?

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Anna
30 June 2021 10:18 am

Doubtful. I can certainly see the connection. Only fools are gullible to commie propaganda.

Gerald Childs
Reply to  Wally Keeler
28 June 2021 12:21 pm

I prefer the positive number of 71% who did keep restrictions.

MCGA
Reply to  Gerald Childs
28 June 2021 12:45 pm

I concur Gerald; the problem is the bottom 29% believe the tail should wag the dog. Most of us, that other 71%, learn at an early age not to seek or take advice and counsel from the dumbest kids in the class.

Rob
Reply to  MCGA
28 June 2021 1:22 pm

29% admit to breaking at least one Covid restriction…tbh I’m surprised that number isn’t twice that. We are far from perfect and over the course of a year and a 1/2 lockdown I have no doubt most people forgot/left their mask, shook hands, hugged, maybe stood only 4 feet from someone, etc… I’m sure every person on this page pushes the speed limit on the 401, recklessly endangering other drivers, because 100 km/hour is just a little too slow sometimes.

MCGA
Reply to  Rob
28 June 2021 1:53 pm

Not sure where you derive your stats on things like: “every person on the page pushes the limit on the 401.” I don’t know anyone who entered the various stories in Cobourg, my wife attends, without a mask…believe me she would note and likely point out to store management; having worked in public health during SARS she is pretty sensitive to the rules. BTW, there is a large difference between imperfect and recklessly indifferent or stupid.

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Rob
28 June 2021 6:14 pm

You are absolutely right, Rob. Humans have a tendency to cut themselves some slack from time to time. But control freaks are everywhere.

Informed
Reply to  Wally Keeler
28 June 2021 6:25 pm

Pandemics are once in a lifetime. The slack you refer to could likely be called the 4th wave. Lets keep the hammer down and everyone get vaccinated.

Rob
Reply to  Informed
29 June 2021 1:35 pm

Let he who has not sinned….

I know for many people its so difficult to accept that those who said “lock it down” are now saying “reopen”.

Keith Oliver
25 June 2021 1:57 pm

Through all of this pandemic,.opinions and feelings have trumpted the science. The result is the Delta variant, its strength and it’s rapid spread.

Instead of procedural complexities and questionable debates, Council should seek advice from experts, possibly interview such experts as part of a Council meeting.

With much still to be learned, a meaningful debate will then become one focused on determining what level of risk is acceptable and the benefits that make it so.

Last edited 28 days ago by Keith Oliver
Rob
Reply to  Keith Oliver
25 June 2021 3:19 pm

Keith would you consider the Provincial Government’s Health Table an expert source of information? What about the Chief Medical Officer of Health for the Province or our local Medical Officers of Health?

Don’t you think they would have mandated that all beaches must be closed if their expert opinion was that they weren’t safe? I mean they have essentially kept the entire Province in lockdown for the last 16 months … Step 2 allows for many outdoors gathering including concerts, race tracks, water and amusement parks with occupancy limits of 25%, so how is the beach different? Who else should Council seek an opinion from?

Get vaccinated folks so we can resume our lives….

Keith Oliver
Reply to  Rob
25 June 2021 9:17 pm

Rob

We’re an interesting bunch in that we elect representatives to make important, informed decisions for us, then try to tell them what those decisions should be.

I see the role of the public as ensuring they have all the facts, recommend credible sources including sources of expert advice, and recommend a decision making proceedure. That is what I tried to do in my comment above.

I’d go further by adding that Council ask advice of three experts after forwarding an accurate description of our beach, past weekend visitors, where they came from, etc. Council should also find out the experience of other popular waterfront towns. After all this Council would then debate what constitutes an acceptabble level of risk vers benefits and only then hold a final vote.

As to your other statement. It was not “them” who put the Province into a 16 month lockdown, it was those of us who thought we knew better and as a result have caused all the unnecessary and excessive personal and economic pain.

One final point which seems to have escaped many. In a complex and diverse society in which we have the good fortune to live, there is no such thing as absolute freedom.

Last edited 28 days ago by Keith Oliver
Ken Strauss
Reply to  Keith Oliver
25 June 2021 9:35 pm

We’re an interesting bunch in that we elect representatives to make important, informed decisions for us, then try to tell them what those decisions should be.

Keith, I beg to differ. In a democracy we elect representatives to implement the decisions of the people rather than to make decisions which ignore what the people want.

Keith Oliver
Reply to  Ken Strauss
26 June 2021 8:16 am

Ken

I beg to differ based on the fact that once elected our representatives become better able to make decisions. There is often a considerable difference between what I want and what is best.

Becoming an elected representatives is based on a platform of issues the political parties believe the electorate believe are the most pressing.

The elected receive decent pay, a staff, listen to debates, participate in committee meetings, have access to experts and the Library of Parliament, are lobbied by interest groups, attend party caucus meetings and hear from their constituents … All before deciding how to vote.

Again, and in general, elected representatives are better informed than the electorate they represent. The time for the latter to pass judgment on the former is at the next election.

Ken Strauss
Reply to  Keith Oliver
26 June 2021 9:26 am

Keith, in a democracy what elected officials “hear from their constituents” must be what matters. Our system of government is based on our representatives doing what the people want rather than making the best decisions. Waiting for the next election is often far too late for critical choices. In a functioning democracy our representatives can try to influence opinions but ultimately they must act as employees of the people rather than autocrats doing what appeals to experts and lobbyists.

MCGA
Reply to  Ken Strauss
26 June 2021 10:12 am

Agreed Keith, with one notable exception; in times of extreme emergency (like war or plague) they have to occasionally shift from employee to leader. They are compelled by circumstance to try to build consensus but ultimately, “The buck stops there.” FDR knew popular sentiment in the US would not support involvement with another European war. Congress wrote neutrality laws in support of the public opinion that forbade him from assisting. He recognized the risks of doing nothing and creatively broke the law. One of my favorite examples of this was flying war planes to the US/Canada border and allowing Canadian forces to cross the border at night and tow those planes into Canada. Good leaders rise to the occasion, others fall into the dustbin of history.

Keith Oliver
Reply to  Ken Strauss
26 June 2021 6:06 pm

Ken

You state that “our system of government is based on our representatives doing what the people want rather than making the best decisions” is curious coming from someone with your diverse background.

What you describe happens when all that representatives are concerned with is getting re-elected, not making the best decision, and we see that far too often.

Please reread my post of June 26, 8:16 am. What you are proposing is absolute chaos. Testimony to that is the present state of politics in the US.

The public never speaks with one voice, while Parliament to its credit does, after much consideration.

And as far as waiting for the next election … that’s how it works and that’s how radical change is avoided.

Anyway that’s it for me. Thanks for the debate.

Last edited 27 days ago by Keith Oliver
ben burd
Reply to  Ken Strauss
27 June 2021 12:17 pm

Keith, in a democracy what elected officials “hear from their constituents” must be what matters.”

Ken if you can prove to me that the elected reps will listen to ALL of the people not just the noisy ones then you have a case. For instance just how many people signed up to be CTA members yet we know that a few of the Cobourg Cllrs listen to everything they say.

Ken Strauss
Reply to  ben burd
27 June 2021 2:23 pm

Ben, it is rather difficult to listen to those who don’t care enough to say something.

Last edited 26 days ago by Ken Strauss
Bryan
Reply to  ben burd
27 June 2021 2:56 pm

Ben:
Yes, they listen. That is what they committed to do when they ran for council. ALL of the members of Council ran on a plank of LISTENING to the residents. Unfortunately, only a few honour that promise.
In addition, and more importantly, the Municipal Act REQUIRES that members of Council REPRESENT the residents. How can members of Council claim to represent the residents if they don’t listen to them?

You wrote “…a few of the Cobourg Cllrs listen to everything they say…“. The unwritten subtext is clear. These few are under the CTA’s control and march to the CTA’s drum. Puppets.
Really Ben. That’s a bit far out, even for you.

Some members of Council claim that they represent the silent majority. How do they know what the SM wants if, as Ken Strauss notes they “….don’t care enough to say something…”

Democracy has always been driven by the noisy ones. The ones who care enough to speak up and make their view known: CTAers and non-CTAers including you Ben.

Last edited 26 days ago by Bryan
MCGA
Reply to  Rob
26 June 2021 2:56 pm

Rob, This is a report on what Canada Public Health has just released. They are raising cautionary flags and we only have 20% fully vaccinated, about one third of Israel’s progress. And unlike the UK, which employed primarily AZN, Israel used Pfizer.

“Despite both the updated guidelines and vaccine data, public health officials continued to caution provinces with their reopening plans amid the spread of the Delta COVID-19 variant.
According to PHAC’s most recent COVID-19 epidemiology and modelling released on Friday, the variant could see an even “greater than previously expected resurgence” of the virus this fall and winter should vaccination coverage not be high enough.
Njoo also pointed out that the guidelines were made with the experiences of several countries now dealing with Delta in mind, specifically that of the U.K. and Israel.
Both of those countries had good vaccination rates and programs, but were forced to reimplement measures or push back reopening due to the spread of the variant.”

MCGA
Reply to  Keith Oliver
25 June 2021 4:21 pm

 To reiterate your point on both how quickly things can change and how infectious the Delta variant is, Israel, which has amongst the highest percentage of population vaccinated (57% fully vaccinated), went from dropping their indoor mask mandate to reestablishing it in two weeks.We should both maintain a very careful watch as well as set a high bar (say 80% fully covered) for unrestricted opening. Despite a high rate of vaccination with the new mRNA vaccines, Israel is seeing a spike in cases largely due to the new Delta variant Publish Date – 10:24 pm, Fri, 25 June 21 The reinstatement of the indoor mask mandates in Israel comes only two weeks after they were relaxed. In another worrying sign for the global race between vaccinations and variants, Israel this week decided to reimpose mandatory mask-wearing in indoor spaces. On Friday, Nachman Ash, head of Israel’s pandemic response task force, came on public radio to announce that most mask mandates in indoor spaces would now be reinstated. This decision comes at a time when Israel has seen four straight days with over 100 new cases. On Thursday, Israel saw 227 new cases with the count reportedly doubling every few days. Ash stated that this sudden spike was likely due to passengers returning from abroad infected with the highly contagious Delta variant of COVID. Coming just two weeks after the government lifted mask mandates, this about-face is worrying not just for Israel but for the world. With approximately 5.2 million of the 9 million people in the country having taken two doses of the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine, Israel saw a drastic fall in its infections and hospitalisations. Now, a new infection wave could raise some doubts over just how effective the mRNA vaccines are at reducing infections. Aside from reinstating indoor masking… Read more »

Last edited 28 days ago by MCGA
Rob
Reply to  MCGA
25 June 2021 5:11 pm

Also important to note that even as infections have increased there has not been any parallel rise in hospitalization or deaths. Would suggest that the vaccinations are performing well thus far.

MCGA
Reply to  Rob
25 June 2021 10:36 pm

So far…as the philosopher said: It ain’t over til it’s over.

Wally Keeler
Reply to  MCGA
30 June 2021 10:25 am

Another bumper slogan: it ain’t over ’til it’s over.
Another bumper slogan: better safe than sorry.
Bumperthink is the new newspeak which is nospeak at all.

KKrakenberg
24 June 2021 9:06 am

I agree with the mayor. Keep it closed at least until after the long weekend.

MCGA
24 June 2021 7:44 am

A bit of current medical research, released yesterday, by people who likely know to to use a calculator. Part of the future risk calculation.
Initial preliminary results from the Canadian Partnership for Tomorrow’s Health (CanPath) COVID-19 Antibody Study, based on close to 6,000 dried blood spot samples collected between February 8 and May 17, 2021, show a high degree of variability in the level of antibodies produced by a single dose of a COVID-19 vaccine. These findings highlight the importance of accelerating second doses as the Delta variant continues to spread, particularly with the vast majority of Canadians having received only a single vaccine dose. This is the first pan-Canadian study using samples from a wide range of participants to confirm evidence from vaccine manufacturers’ clinical trials, as well as findings in a recent preprint from the United Kingdom and other smaller studies.
“Approximately 10% of participants who reported being vaccinated with a single dose of an mRNA vaccine and 30% of those vaccinated with a single dose of the viral vector vaccine did not show signs of antibodies above thresholds differentiating them from the population at large,” explains Dr. Awadalla. Additionally, and again consistent with recent international reports, antibody levels appeared lower in those over the age of 60 after a single dose of any vaccine type.

Anna
Reply to  MCGA
24 June 2021 12:32 pm

Yet, MCGA commits to feeling safe enough when 80% are fully vaccinated. (how about when Northumberland hits 80% fully vaccinated? I will not waste your time walking you through the science behind it, suffice it to say this new variant likely requires it) He should have kept this bit of current medical information to a time when we hit his target, and use it in his tireless efforts to frighten the readers and keep us house confined indefinitely.
However, MCGA, there is good news: studies show that individuals who were Not vaccinated, or received only one dose of an approved vaccine, developed lasting antibodies. (I will not tire MCGA with the science behind it).
MCGA can continue to pick and choose whatever he wants to support his beach closure position. In doing so, he neglects to consider 1. The suffering many experience as a result of the lockdown and continued imposed restrictions 2. The tiny tiny risk of getting Covid outdoors (And indoors with the current numbers) 3. individuals’ ability to decide for themselves their own safety requirements.

MCGA
Reply to  Anna
25 June 2021 10:48 pm

Please reference the events unfolding in Israel, their indoor mask reversal and their recommendations, with 57% of their population fully vaccinated vs. our 20%, to wear masks outside. Clearly they know less than you do about the transmittability of the Delta variant. Clearly, these guys know how to use a calculator.

Anna
Reply to  MCGA
30 June 2021 9:52 am

All the beaches are open in Israel with no restrictions, as well as restaurants, gyms, schools, libraries, clubs, hair salons, spas, and the Gay Pride Parade took place with tens of thousands of participants.
MCGA should be able get the point here – open the Cobourg beach.

MCGA
23 June 2021 9:42 am
  • The Delta coronavirus variant is on track to become the dominant strain in many nations.
  • WHO officials on Monday said the variant was “faster” and “fitter” than previously identified ones.
  • “It will pick off the more vulnerable more efficiently than previous variants,” Dr. Mike Ryan said. 

The above is the analysis provided by the WHO’s exec-director of health emergencies program yesterday. Delta is estimated to be 60% more transmissible than the previous strain. With less than 20% of Cobourg fully vaccinated it would seem prudent to simply minimize the opportunity for community spread. This strategy has worked well for 15 months, it should continue.

Rachael
Reply to  MCGA
23 June 2021 4:39 pm

MCGA, you put out this information but without contextualizing it. The above information only incites fear without proper context, which is the transmission of COVID indoors versus outdoors. The same thing happened in the last Council meeting when the Mayor did the same thing, ignoring the science and speaking to his ‘feelings and fears’. We are talking about a beach……not an indoor setting. The above information is terrifying if you are indoors and without safety measures……there is plenty of science out there that speaks to the extremely low risk of Covid transmission outside, especially when social distancing is possible (there is more than enough space on the beach for families with children to distance). And all this talk of ‘them’ coming to our community, as if it is private property that we own as residents is absurd. People are coming and going all the time. This is a beautiful and valued human right we have in Canada when we are not in a lockdown. Wear a mask, keep your distance, and wash your hands. Directly from the WHO website: Current evidence suggests that the virus spreads mainly between people who are in close contact with each other, typically within 1 metre (short-range) in poorly ventilated and/or crowded indoor settings. How can I reduce my risk of getting COVID-19? There are many things you can do to keep yourself and your loved ones safe from COVID-19. Know your risks to lower risks. Follow these basic precautions: Avoid crowded places, poorly ventilated, indoor locations and avoid prolonged contact with others. Spend more time outdoors than indoors (and no, the beach is NOT a crowded place with poor ventilation…..from someone who uses it almost everyday, in all seasons) Follow the advice of your local health authorities (they have told use to get outside… Read more »

MCGA
Reply to  Rachael
23 June 2021 5:44 pm

Facts presented without contextualizing them…really? What I have offered over the past 15 months is what the epidemiologists from the WHO, CDC, Canada Health, etc. have published or promulgated via either professional medical journals or various media sources. Beyond that, a detailed study of the 1918 Spanish Flu; plus second hand experience with the 2003 SARS outbreak in Toronto via my wife’s (a Family Nurse Practioner) experiences with Peel Public Health covering Pearson International during that outbreak. Repeatedly there has been argument in Public Health about creating effective community bubbles as a way to mitigate risk. They have worked in reducing spread. Individual Provinces have established their own bubbles to accomplish the same goal. Other municipalities with beaches, like Ajax and Wellington, have purposely limited access and have attempted to dissuade those beyond their community from coming to the beach. That is my focus, and has been all along. Last year the beach was closed and there was virtually no community spread in Cobourg, coincidence or not. Epidemiological math is fairly simple, and there is an infection risk multiplier when you invite people outside your immediate community into it. People are free to use the beach five days each week, while employing the established safety guidelines. That reduction from a full week is solely to dissuade parties from outside our community bubble from entering that bubble to use the beach. So, go outside, enjoy the good weather safe in the knowledge that the Council and Public Health understand the risks and are working to mitigate them.

Concerned
Reply to  MCGA
24 June 2021 6:48 am

Don’t use Ajax as a beach comparison the beach they have is tiny and not great. They instituted their parking fees to control crowds at the waterfront not their little beach.

MCGA
Reply to  Concerned
24 June 2021 7:09 am

While size obviously matters to you, it is the fact that the Ajax community elected to close their property to control their perception of infection risk. Cobourg has the same right.

Concerned
Reply to  MCGA
24 June 2021 11:07 am

Stop misrespresenting facts Ajax didn’t close anything they changed the parking by-law.

Ken Strauss
Reply to  Rachael
24 June 2021 8:38 am

How do we keep GTA visitors out of our stores and other indoor spaces?

Last edited 29 days ago by Ken Strauss
Rob
Reply to  Ken Strauss
24 June 2021 10:28 am

Why would we want to do that Ken – isn’t that what masking, social distancing, vaccinations and other health measures are for?

Step 2 is coming early….June 30th. Get vaccinated folks.

Rachael
Reply to  Ken Strauss
24 June 2021 11:20 am

We don’t. How do we keep you from going to Toronto, or any other community?

Freedom of movement…..Charter of Rights. I have a feeling that this need to keep GTA visitors away from Cobourg has been a concern for much longer than the pandemic.

Socially distance, keep your time indoors limited and wear a mask, wash your hands a lot.

Concerned
Reply to  Rachael
24 June 2021 11:27 am

Happy to see the silent majority finally starting to speak out against those who don’t want visitors coming to Cobourg!

Last edited 29 days ago by Concerned
MCGA
Reply to  Rachael
24 June 2021 11:35 am

I am guessing the Premier of Nova Scotia has a different copy of the Charter. He is dramatically concerned about outsiders and infection in his Province, and has acted accordingly. I have not spent my life in Cobourg and in normal times would not care who came in or from where. This ain’t normal times. A once in a century pandemic ain’t normal times. New, more infectious variants don’t arrive in normal times.

Concerned
Reply to  MCGA
24 June 2021 12:07 pm

Right but as others of stated many times this attitude existed before the pandemic.

MCGA
Reply to  Concerned
26 June 2021 12:10 pm

Everyone has a preference and a reason for it. Some, I expect, feel they are being over run by outsiders. I spent the first 18 years of my life summering in a small fishing town on the end of Long Island. Even though I spent 3 to 4 months a year playing and working there I was never a bonafide local. Over time my local friends were priced out of their own community by Alan Alda, Carl Berstein, and their well heeled like. It is hard but, “all things are change.”

MiriamM
Reply to  MCGA
26 June 2021 12:45 pm

Here is recent news on what is happening in the Hamptons part of Long Island, related to pandemic behaviour of humans. A disaster in the making. An expensive fix, too.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jun/25/new-york-hamptons-long-island-sewage-water
Decision makers need a long view and sometimes a better understanding of the potential implications of their decisions.

MCGA
Reply to  MiriamM
29 June 2021 9:46 am

Bad management can kill anything; and the example of what happened in the Hamptons is a cautionary tale for anyone driving for rapid growth at all costs. Hazel McCallion concluded, after decades as Mississauga mayor, that the sprawl that occurred by the unbridled growth she encouraged was a mistake. Our politicians manage from election to election, hardly supportive of a long view. The electorate also suffers from a very truncated time horizon. Can you imagine a crowd of Cobourg residents standing in Victoria Park for the duration of a Lincoln-Douglas debate: In each debate either Douglas or Lincoln would open with an hour address. The other would then speak for an hour and a half. The first then had 30 minutes of rebuttal. Or any of our politicians, at any level, being able to speak largely extemporaneously for that amount of time and then be able to engage in a substantive rebuttal?

Ken Strauss
Reply to  MCGA
29 June 2021 10:19 am

At the time of the Lincoln-Douglas debates voters had to read newspapers and even pamphlets and books in order to make informed decisions. Today we’re so advanced that every complex issue can be condensed into a sound bite. No reading or thought required.

MCGA
Reply to  Ken Strauss
29 June 2021 11:55 am

As Jefferson said (not the guy from Movin’ on Up): “The government you elect is the government you deserve.”

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Ken Strauss
30 June 2021 10:43 am

Bumperthink: eg. better safe than sorry or it ain’t over ’til it’s over, etc.

Wally Keeler
Reply to  MCGA
30 June 2021 10:41 am

Fidel Castro’s First Speech at UN, Hours that Made History | FIDEL Soldier of Ideas

He did this regularly in Cuba, requiring citizens to stand in the heat for hours whilst he pontificated, mostly unsubstantial hot air. Nothing to admire or respect in regards to loooooooong speeches.

Succinct is preferable.

Wally Keeler
Reply to  MCGA
30 June 2021 10:28 am

the analysis provided by the WHO’s exec-director of health emergencies program

The WHO is credible? The WHO has not been compromised by the Communist Party of China? Get a better sourced.

Informed
22 June 2021 9:56 pm

I still cant believe this is a such a big issue for some people during a pandemic and when the beach is open 5 days a week. Leave it as is and take the fence down in September and start planning for a great “fence free “2022 beach year. Start planning next years activities and special events for next year. My guess is that this will take lots of planning.

Thomas
Reply to  Informed
23 June 2021 12:18 am

I agree. We’re now at the point that even hairdressers are not allowed to open, yet you want to open up the beach to outsiders??? A little common sense now will make for a better September.

Rob
Reply to  Thomas
23 June 2021 10:02 am

Exactly….open the hairdressers as well. Thanks Thomas!

Concerned
Reply to  Thomas
23 June 2021 11:32 am

I’m not sure if any other beaches are closed but of the major beaches we are the only one not fully open I believe and hairdressers and salons will be re-opened next week. There is no reason we can’t fully enjoy July and August, they feel it is safe enough to open amusement parks so how is a beach any different, people can better control social distancing at a beach. Those who have a concern don’t have to go. It’s about personal choice as well. Physical distancing and masking rules still apply.

Last edited 1 month ago by Concerned
Cobourg taxpayer
22 June 2021 7:25 pm

I fully support the beach remaining closed on weekends. For those that consider this the glass half empty the beach is open 5 other days per week. If/when another heat wave hits the numbers of beach goers will increase especially when what little schooling there has been is actually over for the school year. There needs to be more scientific study of the delta variant and many more people with both vaccines. Thanks for keeping Cobourg safe.

Rachael
22 June 2021 2:08 pm

Open the Beach for those that WANT to use it safely (social distancing). If you don’t want to use it, that is fine. You are welcome to stay home and look after yourself. These comments about ‘seeing’ out of towners here……yes, they are allowed to be here, and going around guessing who ‘belongs’ and who doesn’t in this town is shameful, and getting tiring. If you want it open, for what it is worth, you can sign here http://chng.it/XL7RbRw4 Why do some members of Council continue to ignore the science of outdoor transmission and beaches? As another person commented, many citizens who want the beach open (those who use it, with children in our care) are busy working. The Council needs to do their job and follow the science and province, instead of speaking to their feelings and fears like some did last night during the Council meeting. Sorry, this decision can’t not be based on the ‘feelings’ of a few Councillors. That is not how municipal decisions that affect citizens freedom of movement work in Canada. The point here is to return the freedom of movement to citizens, just as you are free to leave Cobourg and enter other communities, go to a patio, play golf, use the marina or stay home. Everyone should be free to use the beach IF THEY CHOOSE. If they choose not to socially distance, this is a job for the police, not Coburg Council. I swim the beach almost everyday…….up and down from one end to the other. I have counted approximate numbers on the cold, and hottest days. There have NOT been 500 people on the beach (according to one Councillor last night). Yes, the optics of beachgoers doesn’t ‘look good’ from a distance, but when you are ON the beach social… Read more »

concerned
Reply to  Rachael
23 June 2021 12:50 pm

You sure it’s not the pubs and clubs being full vice beaches?

Rachael
Reply to  concerned
23 June 2021 4:43 pm

NP

Last edited 1 month ago by Rachael
Concerned
Reply to  Rachael
23 June 2021 5:12 pm

Sorry I misread what you wrote. Not sure how to delete.

KKrakenberg
22 June 2021 1:13 pm

Keep it closed. Already seeing out of towners over in the marina parking lot either using that small
Beach or heading over west of legion village.

Wally Keeler
Reply to  KKrakenberg
22 June 2021 2:20 pm

How did you know they were “out of towners?”

cornbread
Reply to  Wally Keeler
23 June 2021 6:35 am

Perhaps they wear different clothes, not purchased at Wal-Mart, Giant Tiger or Mark’s and their License Plates are different than normally seen in Cobourg. Sorry Wally, I couldn’t resist the poke.

marya
Reply to  cornbread
23 June 2021 10:56 am

Poking and correct on at least one distinction, Cornbread!

Wally Keeler
Reply to  marya
23 June 2021 11:35 am

Cobourg is in good hands with the Eagle Eye Brigades; spotting and reporting the sighting of herds or hordes of ‘outsiders’. Little Stasi finks in the making. What inhospitality. The chronic demonization of non-residents is a feature indulged by many on this blog.

The licence plate distinction is porous and unreliable.

Merle Gingrich
22 June 2021 12:44 pm

Here we go again, back and forth, back and forth. Keep it up, next thing you know it will be October and no one wins and once again we end up with egg on your face.

Anna
22 June 2021 11:46 am

Open the beach PLEASE! Outdoor infection rates have consistently been under 1%, variants and all.
Yesterday there were less than 400 new cases in all of Ontario’s over 14,000,000 population.(https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data) As of today, more than 9,723,938 people from Ontario have received at least one dose of an approved COVID-19 vaccine. 3,145,372 people from Ontario are fully vaccinated against COVID-19, having received both required doses. (https://covid19tracker.ca/provincevac.html?p=ON)
Staying closed with these numbers, mean we will never open as there are enough people out there who refuse to be vaccinated.
Remember that we are also prevented from taking our weekend visitors to the beach, and going there ourselves. Walking along the beach a couple of weekends ago, I met a boy who was visiting his grandparents; He was looking forward to enjoying the beach during his visit and was really disappointed.
Those that need safety above all else, and at any price, can choose to avoid crowded places.
Can anyone who takes the position that “better safe than sorry” commit to Specific numbers and conditions they require in order to feel safe enough to allow out of towners to use the beach?

MCGA
Reply to  Anna
22 June 2021 12:55 pm

I will take a crack at it (as I have been one of those leading the charge on this since March 2020)…how about when Northumberland hits 80% fully vaccinated? I will not waste your time walking you through the science behind it, suffice it to say this new variant likely requires it. Again, look to the UK and Missouri for how things can quickly go wrong. As to the sad young lad missing the beach, he will have other summers and other beaches. Proportionately, he has far more future opportunities than many seniors in our community. As such, it likely pains them more.

Anna
Reply to  MCGA
22 June 2021 5:32 pm

In order to reach the safety level he needs, does MCGA also require 80% to be fully Flu vaccinated?
MCGA is so invested in his position, he is unable to see that the “sad lad” anecdote serves as an example of those who are impacted by the beach closure – it is not only the (shamefully) hated GTA visitors and the local citizens who badly want to enjoy our beach that are impacted by the closure.
The ‘sad lad’ inability to enjoy the beach while visiting his grandparents is not tragic. What is really sad is the patronizing attitude towards seniors and other individuals, thinking they are unable to make their own decisions about whether they want to join or avoid crowded beaches, crowded Walmart, Crowded King street etc.

MCGA
Reply to  Anna
22 June 2021 9:09 pm

The beach is only closed 2 of 7 days…this is inconvenience not privation. The one point you do have correct is how invested I am in this thought process. Some people view this pandemic reactively, assuming wrongly that they can catch up when the virus begins to spread. That has been proven 100% wrong in multiple jurisdictions and in each of the succeeding viral waves. The way you beat this thing, unless it burns itself out like SARS or West Nile, is by being proactive and depriving it of the opportunity to spread. The partial beach closure is a small, proactive step that is in the best interest of our community even if you can not see it.

Concerned
Reply to  MCGA
23 June 2021 6:35 pm

So by your thinking MCGA the virus should be thriving with all the major beaches in Ontario fully open. Why are cases so low and the infection rate below 1.5%? Your logic should have the infection rate exploding.

Bill Thompson
Reply to  Anna
22 June 2021 3:29 pm

I wonder in years (distant / recent past) during summer and winter ,how people regardless of age ever survived, particularly those who didn’t live near a beach nor ability to get to one?
Somehow they “managed”.
Amazing how an issue like this exposes the generational differences as time passes.

Last edited 1 month ago by Bill Thompson
Rachael
Reply to  Bill Thompson
23 June 2021 5:08 pm

I think you hit the nail on the head Bill Thompson, and I was thinking about this exact thing this morning.

The beach issue is a generational difference. I am 99% sure that I will not be sitting on a beach in 35 degree temperatures, sweating and covered in sand when I am in my senior years. I hope I will still be swimming though! BUT, as working parents of 3 young children, the beach is one of the last safe, accessible, community-based, free, naturally beautiful spaces available during COVID for children and their caregivers.

This is not just one more summer…..this is the childhood, and physical and mental health of my children. Remember back to when you were a kid……what a wonderfully special place the beach is to every child and it is available to all (when not fenced in).

After almost two years of my children losing everything a young child loves (friends, school and youth activities) they are managing extremely well.

This is not about our children ‘surviving’, this is about them thriving.

Ken Strauss
Reply to  Anna
22 June 2021 3:30 pm

Anna, you note that 3,145,372 people from Ontario are fully vaccinated against COVID-19 and that sounds impressive until you think about it. Over 10,000,000 residents are not fully vaccinated. Four out of every five Ontario residents are not fully vaccinated. Three times as many are not vaccinated as those who are vaccinated. That doesn’t sound so good, eh?

Last edited 1 month ago by Ken Strauss
Rob
Reply to  Ken Strauss
22 June 2021 3:42 pm

Actually I would disagree Ken, given the effectiveness of one-shot of either the mRNA or AZ vaccination, of which 75% of the province has it.

Sounds very good, eh?

Ken Strauss
Reply to  Rob
22 June 2021 3:53 pm

Rob, your observation sounds very bad if one actually thinks about it: “…a single dose of either AstraZeneca’s or Pfizer’s vaccine reduced a person’s risk of developing COVID-19 symptoms caused by the Delta variant by 33%” and “people infected with Delta are about twice as likely to end up in hospital, compared with those infected with Alpha” according to https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01696-3 That doesn’t sound so good, eh?

Rob
Reply to  Ken Strauss
22 June 2021 5:01 pm

Ken – I noticed this is the page you sent…

” A recent Public Health England study found that people who have had one vaccine dose are 75% less likely to be hospitalized, compared with unvaccinated individuals, and those who are fully protected are 94% less likely to be hospitalized.

Try to keep in mind that symptoms can be a mild cough, runny nose or a headache and 33% doesn’t mean a 67% chance of catching the Delta variant and dying. Most people (by a large margin) experience little to no symptoms of Covid and even those with symptoms, 98% of known cases recover normally.

I understand people are afraid – but the beach is safe and should be reopened, perhaps under some form of control.

Everyone should get vaccinated!

Last edited 1 month ago by Rob
Ken Strauss
Reply to  Rob
22 June 2021 5:35 pm

Thanks for the point: “…those who are fully protected are 94% less likely to be hospitalized“. That eliminates any possible concern! But seriously, why open the beach? GTA visitors won’t stay on the beach but will purchase a fast food burger, gasoline and maybe even visit a grocery store, LCBO or dine downtown (if one believes the claims of some who favour tourism). These are all opportunities to infect our residents. Why take a chance encouraging freeloaders for little or no benefit?

Rob
Reply to  Ken Strauss
22 June 2021 8:15 pm

Ahhh Interesting how there is now a blend of covid science and fiscal benefit or the perceived lack of fiscal benefit of opening the beach. I believe many who wish the beach to remain closed are more concerned about the monetization of the beach and a their disdain for outsiders/“freeloaders” than protecting the vulnerable.

Please get vaccinated everyone. Outside activities are safe and should resume.

Ken Strauss
Reply to  Rob
22 June 2021 10:15 pm

Rob, the good news is that there is no conflict between fiscal benefits and protecting the vulnerable: keep the beach closed until this pandemic is over!

Concerned
Reply to  Ken Strauss
23 June 2021 9:50 am

And when do we consider the pandemic over? They have already said this will be similar to the flu so we will need a booster annually so from that perspective it will never truly “be over”.

Ken Strauss
Reply to  Concerned
23 June 2021 7:42 pm

Perhaps a reasonable point would be when pandemic death rates are similar to flu death rates among the somewhat healthy?

Rob
Reply to  Ken Strauss
23 June 2021 10:00 am

agree to disagree…

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Ken Strauss
30 June 2021 10:51 am

If you are that afraid of contagious out-of-towners, then why not close off the Town to them infecting our stores, restaurants, etc. Additionally, prevent all Cobourg residents from visiting outside town because they might bring back The Contagion. Be afraid, be very very afraid.

Rachael
Reply to  Anna
23 June 2021 6:50 pm

Anna, petition here to try and get the beach open…….Reverse the decision to close the Cobourg beach on the weekends.

For what it’s worth……….

Deborah OConnor
Reply to  Rachael
29 June 2021 8:44 pm

Signed and shared, great work Rachael.

MCGA
Reply to  Rachael
30 June 2021 9:29 am

To date, 78 signatories to open the beach. In the same timeframe last year the petition to close had over 500 and ultimately over 1400. In a representative government the representatives have a duty to act in the best interest of the majority. 78 ain’t anything like a majority unless you employ Anna’s magic calculator (and powers of probability and statistics) and maybe have Wally do the recount.

Anna
Reply to  MCGA
30 June 2021 10:01 am

MCGA is so stuck on last year, he seems unable to move forward and integrate updated facts into his tireless obsession with keeping the beach closed to out of towners. BTW, the beach was really busy on Monday – perhaps MCGA supports closing the beach on all sunny days to protect us from maybe a new variant?

MCGA
Reply to  Anna
1 July 2021 3:58 pm

At the point you, Rachel and the rest of Wallyworld attracts say 1,000 signatories to your petition you might be taken seriously. The same 1400 who saw the risks last year do not appear to be interested in following your lead. Why is that?

Wally Keeler
Reply to  MCGA
30 June 2021 10:55 am

“…  have Wally do the recount.

A totally misplaced comment meant to denigrate. Grow up MCGA.

Old Sailor
22 June 2021 9:50 am

I recall from an earlier blog posting that Council is going to raise regular day to day parking fees paid for by residents. What will be the significant increase in beach parking fees for non residents? And what will be the significant charge for non resident beach users? In other words what will be the net benefit to the resident taxpayers of opening up the beach on the weekend? Would like Councillors who vote for the proposed reopening to write and sign a “Letter to the Editor” for blog posting and update us.

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Old Sailor
22 June 2021 10:20 am

And what will be the significant charge for non resident beach users?

There will be no charge for non-resident beachniks this year, next year, nor years yet to be.

Last edited 1 month ago by Wally Keeler
Bryan
22 June 2021 9:18 am

JD reports that “…Deputy Director Teresa Behan reported that, so far, the beach has had 300-500 people per day on weekdays….”
As one who has frequently visits the beach since it opened, including the “hot” days, the DD’s beach usage estimate is wildly optimistic (IMO): 300-500 per day. Dream on. No info as to how this estimate was made is provided. There were no staff counting.
My “snapshot” estimate is 75-200. Mostly moms with kids, some families and groups of kids/teens. Now I can believe more than that as the total usage over the course of the day. People come for several hours and then leave.

Last edited 1 month ago by Bryan
Dubious
Reply to  Bryan
22 June 2021 9:24 am

Why do you say “wildly optimistic”? Reporting any usage by those from the GTA should be considered wildly pessimistic. What is that number?

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Dubious
22 June 2021 10:05 am

How do you distinguish those “from the GTA” from those from Grafton or Baltimore or…?

Bryan
Reply to  Dubious
22 June 2021 11:29 am

Dubious:
My estimate is simply based on observations of people on the beach. They didn’t wear signs saying Cobourger, Port Hoper, Graftonite, Northumberlander or GTAer, so determining the residence affiliation was not possible.
Perhaps DD Behan collected residence information.
Have you asked her?

Lemon Cake
22 June 2021 8:56 am

I really disagree with turning this over to the public for input on this decision. Responses to these consultations are limited to folks who have the time to respond and a handful of people who follow the town. There are legions more people in town who are too busy working and raising families or who can’t be reached on social. Councillors are elected to make the big decisions – put on your big girl/boy pants and get to work.

MCGA
Reply to  Lemon Cake
22 June 2021 9:14 am

You would prefer no public input; or input only from those who agree with you? Those legions of busy people never look at the local news? They don’t reference social media anytime over days at a time? It appears that the only party it should be turned over to for consultation is you. (Shades of Spiro Agnew and the silent majority.) Representative government means the Councilors should be representing all their constituents and be aided in that process by active consultation with all comers.

Lemon Cake
Reply to  MCGA
22 June 2021 10:00 pm

It’s not about my view – in fact I didn’t share my opinion of this issue either way. I commented on the fact that yet another residents survey is an inappropriate response to a live issue that is evolving every day based on public health messaging and scientific data. Leaders are elected by the public to make decisions and that is the basis of leadership in a democratic society. These are tough times – our council has opted to pay 80k to McKinsey to determine how to make its strategic priority decisions this year – is it too much to ask them to make an actual decision on their own about the beach? What is the role of these leaders if not to make difficult decisions?

MCGA
Reply to  Lemon Cake
23 June 2021 7:21 am

Where you are correct is that it is Councils’ job to make decisions, hard and otherwise. But, in a representative democracy it is entirely legitimate to listen to all constituents regardless of how, or how often, they express their views. You stated an objection to turning it over to public input…public input and active debate is exactly what it requires. And, after the dust settles Council then decides.

Concerned
Reply to  MCGA
23 June 2021 11:36 am

They can’t be expected to consult on everything that is why it takes so long to get things done. Leaders who are afraid of making a decision aren’t good leaders.

cornbread
22 June 2021 8:13 am

Once again the Council in Cobourg show us they don’t really know what they are doing…close the beach…open the beach…they roll with the wind. Until Covid 19 gets “well” under control, we should leave the original decision in place.

MCGA
22 June 2021 7:41 am

As excited as we will all be to get back to normal, including normal use of our Town beach, caution is still warranted. Northumberland’s current vaccination statistics show a sizable lag (almost 10% below the HKPR average) for first shots administered when measured against the overall health unit, Ontario and Canada. Our patience and prudence has been rewarded over the past 15 months. We should stay the course.

 

Informed
Reply to  MCGA
22 June 2021 8:05 am

Statistical reference to varients of concern in hotspots( where most users come from on the weekends to use our beach) should be studied and referenced when making a decision,in my opinion. Will it?

MCGA
Reply to  Informed
22 June 2021 9:23 am

I would agree…the Delta variant is a nasty piece of work and has quite obviously created a true race to full vaccination. Simply reference some of the current medical research in the UK for a sobering appraisal. Northumberland is sitting at 63% (12 yrs plus population)with the first shot and 18.7% fully vaccinated…no where near herd immunity levels. Better safe than sorry.

Informed
Reply to  MCGA
22 June 2021 9:33 am

Im curious as to whether these stats are brought up in council to assist in making sound decisions, as opposed to decsions based on Covid fatigue and whether we have inconvenienced people long enough with having the beach closed on weekends.

Concerned
Reply to  Informed
22 June 2021 10:04 am

They have access to the information like everyone else all the have to do is open their computer. Plus the Medical officer Of health gives an update which they could attend and the CAO gives updates. If they say they didn’t know they they are hiding in their basements.

MCGA
Reply to  Informed
22 June 2021 10:06 am

I am fairly confident that Council and, most certainly, the Emergency Committee (assuming I got the name right) is privy to everything Public Health produces. Weighing the risk response is a bit tricky…look at both the UK and Missouri if you want to see how things can quickly go wrong. As an old Scout I think of it the way we were taught to treat a campfire…if you don’t properly douse it, a small breeze and live embers can quickly turn into an inferno.

Concerned
Reply to  MCGA
22 June 2021 10:33 am

I wouldn’t use any US southern states as example they believe the vaccine is a tracking device and have the lowest rates of vaccination in the US.

Ken Strauss
Reply to  Concerned
22 June 2021 10:53 am

Concerned, your smug comment is seriously misleading and certainly not helpful. About 38.1% of Missouri residents have received two shots. Compare that with less than 20% for Canada. Don’t forget that two shots are required for significant immunity to the Indian (delta) variant which is currently the predominant strain in both the UK and GTA.

Concerned
Reply to  Ken Strauss
22 June 2021 11:01 am

Easy there Ken I was disputing anything about the seriousness of the Delta variant. Did you know most blue states are well over 38% in the 60-65% range. All I was talking about was not using any Republican state as an example as most of them do not want to get the vaccine.

Last edited 1 month ago by Concerned
Ken Strauss
Reply to  Concerned
22 June 2021 11:25 am

Concerned, again your information is both incorrect and irrelevant. According to https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/public-health/states-ranked-by-percentage-of-population-vaccinated-march-15.html as of June 21 Vermont is the only state at over 60%. Let’s consider Canada rather than political slurs on others.

MCGA
Reply to  Concerned
22 June 2021 10:56 am

I suspect that most Missourians would take exception to being called Southern…the majority view themselves as mid-western; 38% of their population is fully vaccinated, Northumberland 18.7%.

Concerned
Reply to  MCGA
22 June 2021 11:02 am

Okay I will refer to them as hard core trump supporters then. 🤦‍♂️

Last edited 1 month ago by Concerned
Rob
Reply to  Informed
22 June 2021 11:11 am

I think anyone with a newspaper, television or access to the internet is quite aware of what the statistics are and how they are trending….

Informed
Reply to  Rob
23 June 2021 10:00 am

Exactly. Lets look at all of this to assist in making an informed decision. No decisions based on covid fatigue or inconvienced beach users that cant use the beach 2 days a week.

Concerned
Reply to  Informed
23 June 2021 1:11 pm

Glad you agree informed because the scientists have already stated beaches are a safe form of outdoor activity.

Informed
Reply to  Concerned
23 June 2021 8:50 pm

If the beaches were open on the july weekend i think your statement would not be factual. There really isnt any benefit and lots more risk.

Concerned
Reply to  Informed
24 June 2021 11:22 am

Why not? Again large beaches all over Ontario are open and the numbers are still going down.

Ken Strauss
Reply to  Concerned
24 June 2021 11:44 am

Why open? Opening increases risk to Cobourgians with minimal benefits to our residents.

Rob
Reply to  MCGA
22 June 2021 11:09 am

Nice to see Council reviewing their decision as the situation continues to evolve and improve – this isn’t a static situation and the motion to close the beach until September was poorly worded. Key health indicators are trending positively, vaccination rates are better than expected and the science supports a full return to outdoor activities and a significant return to indoor activities. For many, “well under control” means zero cases and this is simply not achievable. A quote from Public Health Ontario re: Herd Immunity:

53% to 84% of the population would need to be vaccinated against COVID-19 to achieve herd immunity and prevent the continued transmission of the virus. This estimate falls within the range from several publications estimating 40 to 90% vaccination coverage is required to achieve herd immunity for COVID-19.”

I suspect scientific opinions regarding the specific percentage will vary from paper to paper however we are within the vaccination threshold plus an account for those who have gained natural immunity through infection & recovery.

Concerned
Reply to  Rob
22 June 2021 11:16 am

It is ever evolving and if infections rates get down to 30/40 per day in the GTA why would we leave our beach closed? Especially when second dose vaccinations continue to climb at a rapid rate since they have opened it up you can’t make a carte Blanche statement. Review it as required that just makes good sense.

Last edited 1 month ago by Concerned
MCGA
Reply to  Rob
22 June 2021 11:39 am

UK Newspaper headline less than 30 minutes ago:
UK Covid deaths spike to highest level since April as new variant erupts – lockdown fearsBRITAIN has recorded 11,625 new coronavirus cases in the past 24 hours and 27 deaths, a significant jump from the figures released yesterday.Evolving indeed.

Wally Keeler
Reply to  MCGA
22 June 2021 12:28 pm

UK Newspaper headline less than 15 minutes ago:
UK’s Covid cases hit four-month high of 11,625 as deaths nearly triple in a week to 27 and hospital admissions creep up again – but country moves closer to herd immunity with nearly 90% of adults having antibodies following huge vaccine drive

MCGA
Reply to  Wally Keeler
22 June 2021 1:14 pm

That is why, last week, the UK government suspended any further easing of restrictions for another four weeks. Study the efficacy of one shot against the Delta variant. Review the daily infection rate chart for the past four months. The UK is also underweighted mRNA use and overweighted AstraZeneca which has proven less protective. This variant may reset the computation of herd immunity, with some epidemiologists viewing it as a new virus.

Wally Keeler
Reply to  MCGA
22 June 2021 2:23 pm

For the first time since March 23, @HKPRDHU is reporting no new COVID-19 cases today!

There are still 18 active cases but no new outbreaks and no new hospitalizations.

As well, 73% of residents 12+ have had their first dose of vaccine: http://www.hkpr.on.ca

But be afraid, be very very afraid.
 

Concerned
Reply to  Wally Keeler
23 June 2021 11:46 am

So maybe astr-Zeneca isn’t as good as they say against the delta.

Concerned
Reply to  MCGA
22 June 2021 2:41 pm

I would argue they opened too quickly in the first place and the vaccine most prevalent in the UK is the least effective against the delta variant. If we are going to make a comparison let’s compare apples to apples. Let’s compare a country that mainly uses Pfizer and moderna. I’m not saying this isn’t serious, because it is. I think the province is being smart with their re-opening plans so far so slow and steady will win this time, fingers crossed.

Last edited 1 month ago by Concerned
MCGA
Reply to  Concerned
22 June 2021 4:39 pm

I agree with your first two points. But, even with the less effective AZ the UK was able to go from a daily average number of cases of 25.3K on Jan. 25 to only 1.7K by May 18th. A great success by any standard THEN, the Delta took hold and by June 21, slightly more than a month, they were averaging 10.3K infections per day. That is how infectious this variant is. Also, with only one shot of either mRNA vaccine you have only about 31% effective protection against Delta. To win here we must take the offense, not wait for it to imbed itself. Simply looking at our current numbers could well lull us into complacency, fueling the same sense of safety and protection as the UK felt in mid May. This is not the time to relax.

Concerned
Reply to  MCGA
22 June 2021 5:46 pm

I get the concern but how do you explain that major beaches all over the province are open and cases are still going down? In the 3rd wave the government was very irresponsible and opened far too soon. We are already nearing step three numbers a month and a half sooner than the governments target, the science table agrees with beaches being open so why are we ignoring the science?

MCGA
Reply to  Concerned
22 June 2021 8:56 pm

Look to the time line in the UK as Delta established itself. If your thinking is on target than there are sundry individuals who are deprived of going to Cobourg beach two out of every seven days. If I am on target than perhaps, perhaps this extension of the minimal exposure construct saves some Cobourg citizens from illness or possibly worse. We are, as others have repeated, over 80% unprotected or under protected; that has to be a bad gamble.

Concerned
Reply to  MCGA
23 June 2021 11:22 am

I’ve looked at the UK timeline and we are nowhere close to the amount of cases in the same timeframe so not a good comparison. Ours continue down while there cases still continue on an upward trend. Could it be a case of them being dependant on a less effective vaccine and more aggressive re-opening?

MCGA
Reply to  Concerned
23 June 2021 11:48 am

Possible, but there is typically a pause or bottoming out between surges. We also employed over 2 million AstraZeneca so part of our population is equally vulnerable. The US never approved AZ vaccine so they are most like us, though with a higher percentage fully vaccinated. Here is Dr. Fauci’s position: “It just exploded in the U.K. It went from a minor variant to now more than 90% of the isolates in the U.K.,” Fauci said on NBC’s “TODAY” show. Fauci said the variant has a doubling time of about two weeks and currently accounts for 20% of the isolates in the U.S., which are newly diagnosed infections. “So you would expect, just the doubling time, you know, in several weeks to a month or so it’s going to be quite dominant, that’s the sobering news.”
As they say: fore warned is fore armed.

Concerned
Reply to  MCGA
23 June 2021 12:05 pm

Okay we are one week from the doubling time mentioned and I believe we have just over 2000 delta cases in Canada a far cry from the 76000 the UK had in the same period.

Anna
Reply to  MCGA
23 June 2021 12:25 pm

MCGA chooses to ignore the fact that one is more likely to win the lottery or get hit by lightning, than be infected by the Covid 19 virus or its variants; Especially outdoors, and Especially if fully vaccinated.
1. As of June 23, 2021 at 10:29 a.m, there were 255 new cases in Ontario. (https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data) 
Ontario’s population is 14,733,119 (https://tinyurl.com/9ptwvzsa
Anyone can use a calculator and figure out the ‘pandemic’ infection rate in the province.
2.  As of today, more than 9,752,884 people from Ontario have received at least one dose of a vaccine. 3,343,744 people from Ontario are fully vaccinated against COVID-19. (https://covid19tracker.ca/provincevac.html?p=ON)
3 HKPR Health Unit reported on June 21st: 73% received one vaccine shot, 20% fully vaccinated. (https://tinyurl.com/xsp33u8c)
4 Negligible outdoor infection rates

Surely, one can be worried of any possible changes, but they can happen at any time, as well as in other approved open spaces. The beach can be closed again if MCGA’s fears materialize.
However, the facts justify opening the beach to those who choose to use it.

MCGA
Reply to  Anna
23 June 2021 6:10 pm

Not sure which calculator you employ but the chances of winning say LOTTO 649 is stated as 1 in 14 million; getting hit by lightning in Canada, slightly less than 1 in a million. How do those odds compare to 255 cases for a population of 14 plus million? Thing is, by the time we recognize the problem we are fighting an uphill battle to remedy it. So five days is just is not adequate for your recreational needs?

Anna
Reply to  MCGA
23 June 2021 6:37 pm

“Being outdoors” calculator and “fully vaccinated” calculator. Both significantly reducing chances of contamination, to lower than 255 in  14,733,119.
MCGA can choose to split hairs on on these details while ignoring the big picture and people’s ability to make their own decisions.

Ken Strauss
Reply to  Anna
23 June 2021 7:40 pm

Unfortunately your bad, selfish, decisions potentially affect others.

Concerned
Reply to  Ken Strauss
24 June 2021 6:39 am

How? Those that don’t want to have the beach open on weekends don’t have to go to it.

MCGA
Reply to  Concerned
24 June 2021 7:00 am

Fortunately we live in a representative democracy where the representatives get to speak with real health experts (likely one’s who know how to employ a calculator) and weigh both current and forward looking analysis before going from 5 to 7 days. Hopefully, they will err on the side of caution, as they wisely did last year, when many of the same people who are now pushing for full opening demanded that the beach not close at all.

Concerned
Reply to  MCGA
24 June 2021 11:10 am

Things are a lot different now compared to this time last year, even compared to 30 days ago. I fully supported beach closure last year and initially this year. Things are much different now.

Concerned
Reply to  MCGA
24 June 2021 11:53 am

Also those health experts you continue to refer to have already said beaches are safe to be open. You continue to omit that fact.

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Ken Strauss
30 June 2021 11:06 am

potentially

Not probable. Not Likely. But potential. Overlockdown can be a bad, selfish decision that can and does affect others.

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Anna
30 June 2021 11:04 am

note: 255 cases, but how many deaths?

MCGA
Reply to  Wally Keeler
30 June 2021 11:56 am

Yes Dr. Wally, and twice before the infection rate dropped below one percent only to have the virus catch a second wind and accelerate to 2.13% and then 3.83%. The Delta is 60% more infectious, 24% of the population has not received the first shot, and 70% has not had a second (then add those who had AZN which offers very little protection against Delta). If the WHO has issued a full mask warning and Israel (who has a better vaccine consumption than we have has reverted to masks on…we should pay attention on not drop our guard. Deaths increase when you overload your medical system…and avoiding or preventing sickness is almost as significant as avoiding death.

Wally Keeler
Reply to  MCGA
30 June 2021 3:05 pm

What?! No deaths?
Headaches, a sore throat and a runny nose are the most common symptoms associated with the UK’s most widely established Covid variant, researchers have said.”