Progress with Queen Street Condo Development

In June 2018, Council agreed to sell the parking lot on the corner of Queen and McGill (opposite the Post office) to a developer.  One condition was that the developer include at least 64 parking spaces for public use which would replace those currently on the lot.  The development would also use the land of the adjacent old run-down curling building at 22 Queen Street.  At tonight’s Council meeting, Richard Tseng (with Virginia Lam) from EIE Corporation presented more details and asked for an amendment of zoning rules.  Given that it’s been almost three years, we could be forgiven for thinking that the project had died, but apparently not.  It will be impressive at 5 storeys with rooftop gardens.  At the original Council meeting, Debra McCarthy asked about possible basement flooding due to the proximity to the lake but was told that if in fact there is a problem, then pumps and backup power would resolve it. This is what was done at the Condos on Third Street.

36 Queen St - Parking Lot being sold
36 Queen St – Parking Lot sold

The presentation included overall details of what the planned building would look like – see the link below – although we will have to wait for a site plan to see more. When asked about a timeline, Virginia said it depended on planning approval but demolition of the old curling building should start within 12 months.  To get finance, 75% of units need to be sold but marketing can start once the Town has given approval.

There will be seven three storey Townhouses facing McGill and four commercial units facing Queen.  The parking entrance will be off Queen at the West end of the building.  There will be a garden on the fifth (top) floor and another on the third floor facing north with open space above it (see drawings in presentation).

The number of suites and parking spaces has been provided plus how many bedrooms in each suite but not floor plans.  But you can bet that the asking price for the penthouse on the fifth floor will be in multiple millions.

Parking and Suites by Floor
Floor Res. Pkg Public Pkg T.H. Suites
P1 (U/G) 11 90    
1 36   7 9
2 32     14
3       24
4       23
5       6
Total 79 90   76
Suite Sizes
 Floor Guest 1B 2B 3B T.H. Total
1 2       7 9
2   5 8 1   14
3   9 10 5   24
4   5 12 6   23
5     1 5   6
Total 2 19 31 17 7 76

This is the first public sign since 2018 that this project is proceeding.  The Town got $600K for the land but will also get development charges and someone to maintain the parking spaces in that location. No action was required by Council – the delegation was received for information purposes.

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Cobourg taxpayer
17 March 2021 12:12 pm

In addition after reading the blog post dated June 19 2018 which states “reversal of sale (of parking lot) after 2 years if construction does not start plus $10000 cost to developer “ obviously this has not happened and was not enforced as its now been 3 years. Another condition “if no substantial performance after 5 years the town gets $600000 to replace lost parking”. The Cedar Shores project got started in 2015 and if progress there is any indication could the town end up with the same eyesore on Queen Street?

Bryan
Reply to  Cobourg taxpayer
17 March 2021 1:29 pm

Good point CT.
Another example of the Town’s failure to manage its development contracts: several years ago the developer failed to install curbs and sidewalks in the timeframe provided in the subdivision agreement with the Town. As a result, the builder could not complete driveway installation and paving. The residents brought the matter to Council and it was successfully resolved.

The Town appears to lack a process for tracking these agreements and proactively enforcing them. The status of these contracts should be reported to the director monthly and quarterly to the CAO and Council.

Jojo
Reply to  Bryan
20 March 2021 10:08 am

It’s been like this forever in Cobourg. There is a terrible lack of competence and efficiency. I checked other towns they don’t have to bring completion of contracts to council.. Cobourg will never be a progressive town. People on the blog can do texting between themselves if they want to be familiar but council like to see boxing gloves among ” little “people, yes us the taxpayers. A lack of information when reading this only “informative” blog shows we are all better kept in the dark! Widows are treated poorly as taxpayers and that happens to a lot of us more and more.

Last edited 7 months ago by Jojo
Sandpiper
Reply to  Cobourg taxpayer
18 March 2021 1:04 pm

This is unfortunately has been the problem here in Cobourg
The Willmott industrial park is and has been operated
the same way Management style & ethic is Wrong all the land was gobbled
up mostly by local investors that have never built on the land or opened a business .
The same rules applied Build or get out of the way Create Jobs or go away yet these lands remain tied up or optioned with a pile of Red tape to be unraveled ( months ) before a real business can get their hands on it By then they have gone and the jobs with them .
Now compare that to Port Hopes new Business park of 3 yrs ago its Built out .

Cobourg taxpayer
17 March 2021 11:54 am

Is this the same developer who purchased property on King St West now known as Cedar Shores? I haven’t been past there in a few months but last time I saw it most trees were removed and nothing else was going on. The development agreement said the shoreline would be enforced to prevent erosion and the existing buildings maintained neither of which have been done. It now looks like a failed development project. Now the same developer is starting on Queen St?

Ahewson
Reply to  Cobourg taxpayer
17 March 2021 9:00 pm

Extremely odd and unfactual comment. How could someone that hasn’t been there “in a few months” know what is happening? There has been machinery in there lately, much of the shoreline was reinforced last year….

Ahewson
Reply to  Ahewson
23 March 2021 5:29 am

Update. They continue working on the shore, a beautiful new park is forming.

Cobourg taxpayer
Reply to  Ahewson
23 March 2021 7:30 pm

The Cedar Shores project began in 2015 it is now 2021. I don’t consider that “in a timely manner” Much has happened to Lake Ontario shorelines during this time. Or is it better late then never?! Regarding a park I have the same comment. Tree preservation and bat habitat preservation was to occur. How’d that go over the last 6 years?

Jojo
17 March 2021 11:02 am

I read about subfacing parking.
People also ask
How much does underground parking cost?
Underground Parking Garage Square Foot Cost Assuming Reinforced Concrete / R/Conc. Frame
Cost Estimate (Open Shop) % of Total Cost Per SF
Total $51.73
Contractor Fees (GC,Overhead,Profit) 25% $12.93
Architectural Fees 7% $4.53
Total Building Cost $69.18
We are not familiar in Cobourg with subfacing. We have an old infrastructure, the grounds are sandy west of division and clay east of it. We needed a better engineering soil study before building the last harbour condos and we didn’t.

Last edited 7 months ago by Jojo
Frenchy
Reply to  Jojo
17 March 2021 9:28 pm

subsurface?

Jojo
Reply to  Frenchy
18 March 2021 2:24 pm

Sub is a morpheme used as a prefix that expresses under, (used in legal drafting of my generation). Like subscribe: to ‘under’write a magazine, or submarine under water etc..[L. sub under, below; akin to Gr. , Skr. upa to, on, under, over. Cf. Hypo-, Super-.] Ok?👍🏻I will thank myself.

Last edited 7 months ago by Jojo
Liz
16 March 2021 12:42 pm

One of the things I don’t understand is the building on Spencer was recently a rental building. Then it was converted to condos. From reasonable rents on today’s market as a rental building it is now regularly advertising these re-vamped units under condo status for a rental fee of $400. a month more. Maybe a condo building but it is on with many units now rentals from the get go. Affordable housing? Not anymore and next to no new rental buildings built – just condos and when rented starting at over $2000 a month and as high as $3500. a month. Where will it end in both home purchase price and rental housing charge? Maintenance fees – some as high as rent in other cities as the years have passed and there is still property tax and utilities to be paid.

Last edited 7 months ago by Liz
Sandpiper
Reply to  Liz
17 March 2021 7:49 am

Check it out You just might find out the Co. is owned by one of Cobourg’s good old Families
with ties to council . — Surprise again — it was the only way to beat / get around the rent controls and all that Affordable housing Propaganda they preach .

Liz
Reply to  Sandpiper
17 March 2021 8:46 am

Have you Sandpiper? Be interested to know. When I inquired I was advised some years ago the owners signed an agreement that allowed them in future years to convert to Condo status in the future. Some condos – they were bought and then put on the rental market at much higher prices. My curiosity is are they owned in blocks by the same individuals therefore not really condos but a new form of re-renting them under the same ownership – perhaps spread through a corporation of family members.

Sandpiper
Reply to  Liz
18 March 2021 8:19 am

same individual / corporation made the application to to convert apartments to condo’s . This take a few years 2- 3 usually including all the notices to tenants
and some renovations to conform as for who has title to which individual units at this time I don’t know The Tax or MPAC rolls will tell you at the town
Some units may have been purchased by existing tenants I believe they must be offered up to them 1 st the rest may be investors or the parent Co
In any event this is 1 way around low rents and controls
No land lord wants to be affordable when they can be Profitable
unless the Tax payers $$ pay the subsidization through some Govt agency

Liz
Reply to  Sandpiper
18 March 2021 8:36 am

Sandpiper the thing was they were profitable before or they would not have been in business. It is supply and demand just as I was taught in my Economics classes. The government has been inviting vast numbers of refugees and immigrants to this country when they only have a dinner for 4 on the table. For home ownership the interest rates have remained so low these past several years many have purchased – problem is they state even with small increases they won’t be able to afford their mortgage.

Kevin
Reply to  Liz
17 March 2021 6:43 pm

Are you referring to 26 Spencer St. E? It got its condo status about 1997 but was operated as an apartment building. Two years ago renovations started and most units were sold. About a third of the units were kept as rentals. Most of the other units are owner occupied. It was a bowling alley before it was converted to apartments.

Liz
Reply to  Kevin
18 March 2021 8:09 am

Hi Kevin – yes that is the building. When I inquired the person in Council responsible for Planning they advised it was designated as a rental building but had a clause which allowed conversion to condos in the future if and when they chose. The units displayed for rent from $1600. to $1700. so far have been upgraded and are advertised as condos. Formerly the rents were much, much lower but isn’t that the trend? Nearby rental apartments have gone from $965. to $1495 for a one bedroom in the last 8 years. Minumum wage which are the majority of jobs here went from $11.00 an hour to $14.00 with a provincial tax forgiveness on personal income taxes. To own a home in Peterborough the prices have gone from $441,000 to $551,000 average in just one year it was announced on CHEX news and are continuing upward. Toronto home prices are said to be reaching one million on average this year. Sounds like dejeavu 2008 to me.

Liz
16 March 2021 11:38 am

Condo mad everywhere. High priced – let them eat cake!

Bill Thompson
16 March 2021 10:13 am

Is 5 stories now the permitted height of all condos ?
a

Patricia Stanley
Reply to  Bill Thompson
16 March 2021 10:22 am

Condos between the town hall and the lake can only be 3 stories. That rule ends at Division on the east. Not sure of any height restrictions beyond that group of blocks.

Bill Thompson
Reply to  Patricia Stanley
16 March 2021 12:58 pm

New Legion /condos on Orr Street ?

JImT
Reply to  Bill Thompson
16 March 2021 3:14 pm

Ugly building, but at least it doesn’t block the view of Victoria Hall from the south – or any other direction, for that matter.

comment image

Last edited 7 months ago by JImT
Bill Thompson
Reply to  JImT
16 March 2021 9:42 pm

But still 5 stories with Legion ground floor.

Sandpiper
Reply to  Patricia Stanley
17 March 2021 7:43 am

should be but they are Not east of division
besides the new Legion building set the precedent

JimT
Reply to  Sandpiper
18 March 2021 9:10 am

 The “new Legion building” (Harbour Breeze Condominiums to be precise) is not “between the town hall and the lake” such that it would change the skyline and block the view of Victoria Hall.

Last edited 7 months ago by JimT
Bryan
Reply to  Bill Thompson
16 March 2021 11:18 pm

The condo at 128 Queen St is 6 stories.
Looks like parking, physical plant and common areas on the ground floor and
5 residence floors (2-6).

Frenchy
Reply to  Bryan
17 March 2021 9:45 pm

delete d

Last edited 7 months ago by Frenchy
Bill Thompson
Reply to  Bryan
18 March 2021 9:48 am

I understand that 128 Queen St was built in the ’70’s ?

JImT
16 March 2021 10:09 am

This site absolutely requires a high-end type of condo building. It faces a huge park right across the street. Think Central Park in New York City and the lavish buildings that surround it. Right here in Cobourg.

Now just replace the Park Theatre and the adjoining nondescript building with more of same and we’re off to a great start.

Abby
Reply to  JImT
16 March 2021 1:40 pm

Right across the street?

cornbread
16 March 2021 8:45 am

Who ownes EIE Corporation? Does it have Chinese Communist roots? Does it have any leverage in Cobourg? Can’t find it with a simple search on the internet.

Conor
Reply to  cornbread
16 March 2021 9:49 am

Perhaps you are having a delusional moment here. Perhaps you should look up Donald Trump and his China virus theory.

cornbread
Reply to  Conor
17 March 2021 6:40 am

Do you fear the questions or the possible answers? Perhaps we need a real investigative reporter in Cobourg.

Cobourg taxpayer
Reply to  cornbread
17 March 2021 2:50 pm

If EIE Corp owns Cedar Shores and the property on Queen Street are they money laundering? Is EIE a shell corporation?

Conor
Reply to  cornbread
17 March 2021 3:42 pm

Where does this communist roots come from? I am sure they have other avenues for their investments rather than Cobourg.

Fancy Nancy
Reply to  cornbread
23 March 2021 1:09 pm

I’m free – this pandemic and the isolation has drove me to old “Colombo” episodes. I’ll stop there since I may have aged myself with that one.

MoxyK
Reply to  Conor
22 March 2021 10:44 am

Wow, Cornbread! How did you get to Chinese Communist roots? There’s an assumption embedded in that question which is xenophobic and racist.

Wally Keeler
Reply to  cornbread
17 March 2021 3:37 pm

Experiential Interior Evironments

Frenchy
Reply to  Wally Keeler
17 March 2021 7:15 pm

Huh?
Found a hit for Experiential Interior Environments, but it doesn’t appear to be a developer or builder. I think you might be just as off base as Cobourg taxpayer.
Were we supposed to search for this when you could have just provided the link? You were already on their site.

Frenchy
Reply to  cornbread
17 March 2021 7:07 pm

Pretty big leap there cornbread. How did you jump all the way to a Communist China company laundering money in Cobourg? Maybe you’ve been watching too much Netflix.

cornbread
Reply to  Frenchy
18 March 2021 7:46 am

I did not leap…I asked several questions.

Jojo
Reply to  cornbread
19 March 2021 9:10 am

It would be recommended to have an outsider investigative journalist rather than arguing inside a blog.

Ask the mayor for an answer. He is not an elect mayor but it is his job to answer. – unless you ask ( as a woman) and he answers : “you have to be accompanied by a man “.
👎👎👎

Last edited 7 months ago by Jojo
Sandpiper
16 March 2021 8:24 am

So much for affordable Housing in this town
But what I do find more interesting is that with all the problems and flooding
in the underground parking on Third st even with back up pumping systems
is that the Town will still permit something like this to go ahead or be sold to the public .
Insurance Really is an issue .

Gerald Childs
Reply to  Sandpiper
16 March 2021 9:16 am

Buildings 145 and125 Third St., flooded. The other at 148 Third did not flood or at least hasn’t flooded in the nine years I have lived in the building.

ben burd
Reply to  Gerald Childs
16 March 2021 1:41 pm

Give it time, yours is a newer building!

JImT
Reply to  Sandpiper
16 March 2021 9:49 am

The proposed condo on Queen St. is almost twice as far from the lake as the ones on Third St. and apparently higher above the lake level as well.

ben burd
Reply to  JImT
16 March 2021 1:40 pm

The water table will still be higher than the floor of an underground parking level! Bring on the pumps!

Frenchy
Reply to  ben burd
16 March 2021 3:21 pm

How do you figure they do it in other places Ben. Here’s a look at apts./condos just down the road from us. Notice how close they are to the Whitby harbour in the bottom corner. Ever see the Toronto shoreline?

Informed
Reply to  ben burd
16 March 2021 5:11 pm

As it is for alot of houses that require sump pumps to protect their basements

Frenchy
Reply to  ben burd
22 March 2021 7:57 am

How high is the water table at that location Ben? And what would the depth be of the underground parking level there?

Informed
Reply to  Sandpiper
16 March 2021 5:17 pm

I believe most engineers are capable addressing the water table. Do you think the Town can actually direct the develper to build afforable housing on this parcel. Give me a break.

ben burd
Reply to  Informed
17 March 2021 5:32 am

and so they are, but pumps still fail and the owners pay a special assessment to get out of the mess – caveat emptor!

ben burd
Reply to  ben burd
18 March 2021 5:39 pm

I guess some of you either don’t like the truth or doing ‘due diligence’ about the build of a condo development is bad news. Or do you just want to shoot the messenger?

Frenchy
Reply to  ben burd
18 March 2021 9:12 pm

Don’t let all those 👎 get to you.

Merry Mary
Reply to  Sandpiper
17 March 2021 8:49 am

“All of the problems and flooding in the underground parking on Third st” is a strong overstatement for a one time event when all over Ontario, south and north, there was extensive flooding in 2017. Ask homeowners who live on Chapel Street and James Street in this Town about their experiences.

Jojo
Reply to  Merry Mary
21 March 2021 7:23 pm

I am always in touch with someone who left those condos before the big flood. There is always water coming from the basement every spring. She didn’t like it and lost a lot of boxes in their basement, including theft of her jewellery.

Merry Mary
Reply to  Jojo
22 March 2021 7:12 am

There is not water coming from the basement every Spring- before or after the someone left.

Merry Mary
Reply to  Jojo
22 March 2021 7:45 am

There is not always water coming from the basement every Spring either before or after your someone left. Boxes in the basement? Theft of jewellery in the basement?

Merry Mary
Reply to  Jojo
22 March 2021 8:19 am

There is not always water coming from the basement in those condos every Spring. Lost boxes in their basement? Theft of jewellery in their basement?

In line with the topic, condo ownership living is a lifestyle. Abiding by numerous by-laws, rules and regulations is not suited for everyone. Extensive due diligence beforehand is essential.

Jojo
Reply to  Merry Mary
22 March 2021 11:51 am

A lot of trouble when spring comes. Old Cobourg knows it, we are sitting on a cedar swamp. 1). Theft of jewelry was done inside her condo and we know who did it. — End of discussion. — 2). Boxes were not recuperable from the basement water damage after the flood. People had to be evacuated that year, no matter what you say. They suffered light floods regularly since she was there. Harbour is a risk taker no matter what engineering firm is hired :erosion, high waters from the lake, rains, bio diversity, depletion of ozone layer, etc.. A paragraph to write on common sense is not much when some don’t have any.That lifestyle didn’t suit her, she is in a condo elsewhere (with amenities) and much happier, so what ? It takes more than rules and diligence to abide by them to enjoy a place. The flux of wetness may regress, but it doesn’t rime with sweetness or kindness.🛶..AMEN.

Last edited 7 months ago by Jojo
Merry Mary
Reply to  Jojo
23 March 2021 8:40 am

As stated previously, JoJo, there was one flood in 2017, as experienced here and all over Ontario. There is never an “end of discussion no matter what you say.”

Fancy Nancy
Reply to  Jojo
23 March 2021 11:15 am

I Live at Harbour Walk on ThirdSt. Love my place so much. I do agree with you(JoJo) about flooding before and after 2017! I know personally because I have had the storage flood – we ended up using rubbermaid containers instead since the cardboard, well you know…
One thing is how things such as floods bring people together – my neighbours were great when we had to move our car out of the underground for the cleanup. Love this blog so much and glad after lurking all these years I have added my two cents. Keep smiling guys and don’t stop the banter…

Fancy Nancy
Reply to  Fancy Nancy
24 March 2021 10:54 am

Glad I got my first thumbs down! Whew… it certainly doesn’t come as a surprise – all is ok because I want feedback regardless. I only share what I experienced at my residence because I read so much on here and it made me want to share my voice. Now I got to work on staying fancy and not become negative nancy ha ha. I don’t have any regrets of what I said…

Merry Mary
Reply to  Fancy Nancy
24 March 2021 11:45 am

It is not personal, Fancy Nancy. Someone intentionally does the thumbs down, just because it is an option.

Fancy Nancy
Reply to  Merry Mary
24 March 2021 12:59 pm

Do you think they hide behind a green curtain ie Wizard of Oz! Listen to me when I tell you this – we are among good people here with many opinions. I knew when I logged in that I was putting myself out there. I don’t take too much personal lately. We all need to talk and I have had a great time! No worries 🙂