Encampment People Settling in for the Winter

It seems that the 18 people encamped outside Brookside have no intention of accepting Transition house as a place to live.  No doubt they have trouble accepting the rules so they are soliciting donations for heating equipment and firewood to allow them to stay where they are.  A Press Release today by Jenni Frenke linked to a Go Fund me page which has so far raised $13,486 of a $16,700 goal.  The money is used to buy winter tents, “Cobourg Fire Department approved stoves” and firewood.  Jenni reports that so far “we have been able to provide 9 individuals/couples with a hot tent and wood stove” plus “we also were able to purchase a large community tent with two stoves that is being used as a kitchen and a place for folks who need somewhere warm and safe to go for a short period of time”.

There is no talk of moving to Transition house or accepting help from helping agencies although Jenni says: “This campaign is about keeping people warm, safe and alive until they can move onto some form of housing”.  There is also no mention of the drug use or the unwelcome behaviour of many of the campers.

Further Jenni says: “Each hot tent/wood stove set includes two patio stones, a smoke/CO2 alarm, fire extinguisher and ash pail and shovel”.  But one immediate problem is that the group is going through firewood at the rate of one bush cord a week costing $400+.

The point of the Press Release was to ask for donations at the Go Fund Me site here.  The Go Fund Me page includes photos of their cozy tents and was started December 3.

Download the Press Release here.

Note: According to another news source, Jenni Frenke is a member of the Northumberland Sleeping Cabins Collective. (Source.)

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small town Ontario
20 days ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcD3JEO5oM4

Looking back at August 2023, have not seen or heard from Virginia on utube, maybe she went back to Peterborough to live with her grandparents, but not surprised by her comment…don’t tell me there is no money it’s everywhere.

Leslie M.
23 days ago

Today, in town I was informed by a local store owner that a woman came by with a poster to raise $90k — the new goal for the addicted. This owner refused to put the poster up. The woman with the poster retorted in a bullish manner; “ …do you really want to be the ONLY store that does not support this?”. She further suggested meeting an “amazing” man named David Sheffield, where the owner said, “no thank you, I have no interest in meeting him.”

Leslie M.
Reply to  Leslie M.
23 days ago

$25k by Tattoos for Trauma
XX amount by TweakEasy gofundme
$90k goal for Jenni Frenke group

If only these funds were for rehab…mind u it is already tax paid. Albeit the goal is, as always is to remain poisoned by lethal drugs, while we have drug fueled lawlessness not enforced by our police.

If only our Premieres stood up to our Federal government who is solely responsible for the decay of our country.

small town Ontario
23 days ago

Did everyone see the video news update Feb. 5th on John’s Blog. David Paccini MPP said the MOI has announced Brookside will be up for sale on the open market in February.
Good News, now in preparation for a sale would I assume the illegal encampment would be cleared. If I am a buyer I don’t want to see a problem with purchase before I decide to buy.

Also now is the time for the by-law to be put in place to pause 310 Division

small town Ontario
Reply to  small town Ontario
23 days ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5k9U_Hdw9g

What the encampment looks like as of Feb. 5th.

small town Ontario
Reply to  small town Ontario
23 days ago

Sorry folks this is yet another illegal encampment on William St. and it only gets worse

small town Ontario
1 month ago
Pete M
Reply to  small town Ontario
1 month ago

Sadly Cobourg is no longer the feel good town.
Its now known as Cobourg-“Shoot it; Smoke it, Snort it”

small town Ontario
1 month ago

https://twitter.com/NT_pfisher/status/1746743432851202189?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Pete Fisher today see link, lots of good researches here on the blog who may be able to help Pete Fisher

Pete M
Reply to  small town Ontario
1 month ago

Leilani Farha is the Global Director of the organization. She is a Canadia that has worked for the U.N. as a special rapporteur.
Shift is another progressive, some would say social-marxist group that champions human rights, climate change etc.
Their major focus is on human rights and the right of housing.
The organization believes that government is responsible for ensuring housing. They also believe that housing has become finacialized-
Real estate is no longer about providing shelter but is now become a financial tool used by those with money to increase their wealth.
Take a look at their sight,in particular their page on the Groups directives
They give the impression that this is world wide group but appears more Canadian based.

Paul
1 month ago

I think the town should wave home taxes in the area of the encampment, as their homes have no value until the camp is gone. Those folks have also have lived for 10 year with the mess of weeds and dead trees that Sidbrook hospital has become. This mess should be sold for back taxes to developers for homes to be built.

Bryan
Reply to  Paul
1 month ago

Paul,
Sidbrook is privately owned and has been for a long time. I doubt that Sidbrook is in property tax arears, otherwise the Town would take collection steps.

Paul
Reply to  Bryan
1 month ago

It has been property tax arrears for years. When the weeds would get out of hand, someone had to call the town and complain and they would get someone do a quick cleanup. The town wouldn’t clean it up without a complaint. It appears they have a contractor come in and they chop it down with a weed eater. The neighbours have had to live with that for years.I haven’t called in years so I do not know what the process is now. The town hasn’t done anything since just before the July 1st weekend where they went around and cleaned up the overgrown blvds. in town. I have brought it up to the Mayor with no reply.

Bryan
Reply to  Paul
1 month ago

Paul,
As I noted previously, the property is privately owned and unlikely to be in tax arrears “for years”, otherwise the Town would have foreclosed. I know a developer who has tried to buy the property several times, the last was about 2 years ago.

As you note, the Town is not pro-active on issues like this and waits for a complaint. Bylaw issues, such as overgrown grass/weeds, the Town notifies the owner to deal with it by a date or the Town will deal with it and add the cost to the property’s tax bill.

Pete M
1 month ago

Alberta Courts take a different view on clearing of illegal encampments in Edmonton.
Given the recent fire at the Cobourg camp. There is time to challenge the Waterloo decision.
It may require the Supreme Court of Canada to step in.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/court-challenges-homeless-encampments-edmonton-1.7078387

Rob
1 month ago

https://youtu.be/uT7P4NOvyl0?si=z9NzIc_apnTRlw9c

This may be of interest to contributors.

Leslie M.
Reply to  Rob
1 month ago

Guess we know where this Cobourg cop stands. So many inaccuracies in his video. Supporting people who refuse help, are trespassing & commit drug crime, unbelievably SHOCKING (chopping & providing wood). Drug problem, not housing. Disgraceful.

I wonder if this is representative of the entire Cobourg Police force?? Wow. As an Eastender I am disgusted, angry & saddened.

Rob
Reply to  Leslie M.
1 month ago

Leslie I’m not sure this will make you feel better but that isn’t a Cobourg police officer, that is actually an Ontario Human Rights Commissioner. There is no mention of the thefts, violence, open drug use, property damage, refusal of treatment, trespass, and fear/concern that taxpayers must endure.

The rights of freeloading encampers, appear to trump their individual responsibilities as well as the rights of taxpaying property owners.

Leslie M.
Reply to  Rob
1 month ago

Thank you for the correction Rob. It does make me feel better. Apologies to the Cobourg Police, for my assumption.

Pete M
Reply to  Leslie M.
1 month ago

Leslie,
Mr Arsenault is a former 21 yr member of the Toronto Police Service.
His Linkedin page shows him being associated with the Ontario Human Rights Commission

https://ca.linkedin.com/in/randallarsenault

He is not a member of the CPS

Leslie M.
Reply to  Pete M
1 month ago

Thank you Pete M. for the correction. Feeling a little like this these days 😳

small town Ontario
Reply to  Pete M
1 month ago

Yes, a former Toronto Police Officer and now his job is an Ontario Human Rights Commissioner

https://www.ohrc.on.ca/en/annual-report-2005-2006/commission%E2%80%99s-mandate#:~:text=As%20Canada's%20oldest%20Commission%2C%20it,to%20building%20stronger%2C%20safer%20communities.

Isn’t it interesting that he found his way to the Cobourg encampment and referenced his friend from Green Wood Coalition.

He focused his video on the help being received from some people in the community and help from the province with portable washrooms, and dumpster.. No mention of the fact that the washrooms are there to prevent the spread of disease.
Oh and isn’t it wonderful that they have named their camp, 413, he suggests it makes them feel like a place they can call home No mention of the fact that they were evicted from 413 Division St.a rental they destroyed, as they are now destroying the provincial land around Brookside.
No mention of stress on the law abiding citizens, reduced real estate values, crime, drugs, costs to the Cobourg taxpayer,
By the way that bus shelter that was destroyed outside St Peter’s Church cost the taxpayer $7,500.00.

Pete M
Reply to  small town Ontario
1 month ago

Just goes to show the Ontario Human Rights Commission is not an independent government body that objectively looks at all sides of an issue.

Dave
1 month ago

Social Services needs oversight. There are programs for people in this category yet services are refused. A waste of tax dollars. In another instance I read there are 2 million people using food banks in Canada. Yet I speak to people on benefits. That free Christmas turkey they were given by some charitable outfit? There are many that tell me they have a meal off it – sandwiches the next day, perhaps one more meal then they tire of it and throw it in the rest in the garbage! I have known many that get take out in the earlier part of the month and when the money runs out go to the foodbank. Yes, I am aware some need and use the foodbank for what it is intended – an assist. But there is no oversight, no review of what is given in benefits – why are you using the foodbank? Your dollars do stretch to feed your family for a full month and cloth them – all the giveaways for school supplies and menstrual products. I’ve known social services recipients where the mother cooked, the children were well clothed. They knew how to budget their money and they were not without.
As another blogger commented people need to be responsible for themselves whether they be drug addicted or just collecting benefits. There needs to be more oversight!! The ones who do need the foodbank would have greater choice if the ones who abuse the privlege were reviewed by the handers of these funds. Just as the addicts need oversight – sorry we don’t offer the exact desires of your heart but we do offer programs and housing for you to pull yourself from the sorry state you find yourself in.

Kevin
Reply to  Dave
1 month ago

Dave, I completely agree there is waste and abuse of foodbanks. Though having too much oversight might cause other problems. It might be difficult for some people, who really need the service, to accept charity. If everybody could manage their money to have enough for food before buying beer, for example, there would be less need for foodbanks. In one way it helps to keep the economy moving. If the foodbank option was not available would takeout services take a hit at the beginning of the month? Possibly one reason to give to a foodbank is knowing you are helping somebody in need. If there were more oversite maybe more people would give and the people in real need would receive more. Yes, people, if they have the abilities, need to be responsible for themselves.

Mort
1 month ago

How many of the “enablers” have offered up their own homes and property for the homeless instead of continuing the growth of tent city?

Kyle
Reply to  Mort
1 month ago

They want it to continue. They want their cut from go fund me and donations all the while blaming the local citizens and governments for something they did not cause. Stop pandering to the choices the encampment makes. If they don’t want to live by the rules fine. They are welcome to emigrate to somewhere else. Bottom line if they want free housing, free drugs, free food and to be able to get high and sit around all day then get on your bikes and look somewhere else.

Pete M
Reply to  Mort
1 month ago

Dave this started 30 plus years ago in the schools. There were no winners or losers- everyone got a participation ribbon.

Those kids are now adults. They learned and know, they dont can get away with doing nothing. There will always be someone, some group, some agency there back stop them, so they never fail.

The Individuals and groups back stopping are those who also got ribbons too, but were successful. They feel guilty of their success because they have been told through school everyone wins. There are no.losers, no failures.

So to alleviate their guilt theses groups and individuals allow themselves to be taken advantage of by those who have learned the system. The “victims” know the system will always take care of them..They know they can do drugs, drink all day and demand accomodations on their terms, because they know how to.leverage peoples’ feelings of guilt!

Aleta
Reply to  Pete M
1 month ago

I love your analysis Pete. I am older so when I failed, I failed–no one was giving out participation ribbons. Although there are many factors to be considered for the high number of broken people out there, I think your idea has an awful lot of merit.

Pete M
Reply to  Aleta
1 month ago

Aleta,
When one looks back in history we can see individuals in business, science, engineering who experienced different failures on the journey to success. Failure and fear can be two of the greatest motivators if used right. Failure teaches us to do things differently so as not repeat the same mistakes. Fear of hunger, fear of loss of shelter, fear of loss of job all lead to motivating us to work to provide for food, shelter and other life necessities.

For the group at Brookside their is no motivation, no fear.

George Taylor
1 month ago

Rob Ford knows about addiction? Brother Doug?
Mabee he could Help Out by opening the youth center to these People & PROVIDE TREATMENT?

Margo
1 month ago

My wish for 2024 is that the encampment in Brookside is removed so that the East end residents of Cobourg can live in relative peace again. We know we cannot sell our home and leave this town as it’s now worthless. Since the arrival of the encampment in September, the east end has become a nightmare. Street fights, open drug use, the dump that the encampment is, the theft from our front and backyards and the fear that if nothing is done Spring/summer will be utter chaos. My hope is that the enablers STOP enabling and that those who don’t live in the area (especially those from Port Hope) stop financially supporting the encampment residents. There is shelter/treatment options but they will not stop using. We didn’t ask for this but we do pay high taxes, maintain our property and care about our future in Cobourg. Our fear is that if this is not disbanded our town is simply going to run out of money.

Rob
Reply to  Margo
1 month ago

Margo – I’m sure by now you understand that your wish is not the priority for those charged with the responsibility to make decisions in the best interest of the taxpayer. Your wish is likely in the top 10 however, but it certainly isn’t number 1 or 2.

I would also suggest the wishes of taxpayers in this community will fall even further down the list should Council received multi-year budget approved, as the County did during their budget deliberations and approval process. Completely unacceptable.

Tucker
Reply to  Margo
1 month ago

I agree with you completely, Margo. Years ago when I was a teenager, Cobourg was the “place to be”. We used to hitchhike a ride to Cobourg from Port Hope. Years passed and from what I can remember we only had one “homeless” Pete, “the bum” we used to call him. A nice fellow who slept on the front step of the Royal Bank. Never bothered anyone. Now, drugs have taken over and enablers like Linda and her “friends” are sending Cobourg “down the toilet”. Real Estate has tanked in the east end, when my security light goes off in the middle of the night I get out my baseball bat in anticipation of an encounter. That’s not how we should have to live. This request I send to all the potential contributors to the “go fund me” page, please DON’T send anymore money. You are all a part of the downward spiral of the reputation of a once lovely peaceful town.

Linda Mackenzie-Nicholas
Reply to  Tucker
1 month ago

Laughing out loud. I never knew I had so much power. LOL LOL LOL

Tucker
Reply to  Linda Mackenzie-Nicholas
1 month ago

Laugh all you want Linda, but truth be told, it’s human nature to laugh at criticism when you know you are wrong. It’s just what people do. They can’t accept the fact that what people are telling them is wrong and they laugh it off, just what you are doing. You and your contributors think you’re helping but you’re not and you’ve gone this far and you don’t know how to stop and say enough because it will look like you failed but you already have failed the community you’re trying to protect.

Sonya
Reply to  Linda Mackenzie-Nicholas
1 month ago

You don’t. Lol. Lol lol.

Cathy
Reply to  Linda Mackenzie-Nicholas
1 month ago

Narcissism is wonderful to deal with Linda. Stop feeding the animals.

Cindi
Reply to  Margo
1 month ago

We all know by now crackheads have more rights than we do. BC Court has ruled crackheads take precedence over kids in playgrounds, they can shoot up anywhere. In what world should crackheads take precedence over kids, these enablers are complicit in putting our kids in danger. Wake up, speak out!

Harm
Reply to  Margo
1 month ago

I agree with Margo . Clean up the dumpy area as this can’t go on indefinitely.
and time will run out. People around the area want to live in peace. A solution to this illegal encampment on private property has its consequences. When most of them do not want help and keep refusing drug treatments to satisfy their demanding drug habits. Enablers are the root of helping the situation to go on until the colder weather sets in. What good is a tent and some firewood then. It will be just a matter of time before they will or will never see the light!
There is help available in a better environmental setting. It is up to you to make that decision as people around the area deserve to get their lives back the way they deserve. They have had enough of all the BS going on there and I hope your wish will come true sooner than later Margo!

Old Sailor
1 month ago

As I read the well thought out comments below, I can’t help but wonder what will happen if the encampment crowd is mixed into 130 Division Street with the non-addict group? Will it just turn into the disaster that Transition House on Chapel became? Would it be better to wait to move the encampment to a suitable treatment facility for just addiction recovery – wherever that is located? And I assume that would not be in the downtown core of one of Northumberland’s towns.

Silverhairedsilver
Reply to  Old Sailor
1 month ago

Old Sailor – the people in the encampment are aware of alternative housing offers, which they have declined because of rules regarding drug use. For many reasons, including poor mental health, these occupants do not want to enter drug recovery problems. Well- intentioned taxpayers are re-enforcing a lifestyle that is unsustainable. What happens when they eventually become physically ill- what then?

Kevin
1 month ago

Wow, a new year and we have a very difficult problem to solve. I know of no other post that generated this many comments so quickly. People are upset for very good reasons. The events of the last half of 2023 leading to this situation are well documented. Perhaps it would be better to focus on solutions than placing blame, at least until we can come up with something that has a chance of helping.

The word compassion has been used. We need to recognize there are different groups of people deserving compassion and needing to show compassion in return. In the comments below, CountryGal details a recent situation about how community members came together to transport a homeless person to a rehab centre. The community members showed compassion as well as the addict who is trying to get help. Is it possible to help people who refuse help?

Mental illness is part of the problem. Are people with some mental illnesses really able to make decisions in their own best interests? Drug dealers are generally not concerned with the addicts’ best interests. Dealers are concerned about money. Somebody commented on following the money which is often good advice. It can show motives but we need to be careful.

There is much concern about how 310 Division St. will be used. This is completely understandable. The county has asked for public input. Perhaps it is late to be asking but please provide input. Maybe this property can be used to house people who will appreciate it. The waiting list for public housing is long. Should people who are not going to respect rules be given housing? If not, then what do we do with them? It is likely 310 Division could be filled with people who are in need and will appreciate the opportunity.

We have many government programs to help people. These programs are not perfect and will not help everybody but they do help most people most of the time. Until we have a better solution we need to let the programs work. Interfering and blaming government, even if you do not agree with what is being done, is not a solution.

People tend to make assumptions when they do not have information. These assumptions tend toward the worst possibilities. It is very important for authorities to communicate to citizens what is being done. Is a weekly update on this important topic too much to ask? Even if there is nothing new to report we would know something is being tried.

Our problem will not be solved easily but we must keep trying.

Dave
Reply to  Kevin
1 month ago

Kevin – a long missive. However in perusing it I look for the solutions you offer to change what is and I don’t see any. The Federal laws are such that they enable people who wish to use illegal drugs that right. Peterborough has now enacted the only plan they can under the current laws which do what little can be done. Move along – you can’t use drugs in public and we will direct you to a centre for help but can not ensure the person uses them and just continues with their drug use perhaps in another public place.
I live in reality and the reality states unless the laws are changed, the government becomes involved and builds rehab centres and mental institutions with an onus to attend there will be no change. I don’t call that the blame game. The Federal government has finanally admitted due to pressure in Parliament the need to ensure housing is built – let us hope they also change these polices that have made communities deal with encampments, open drug use, light sentences and other glaring faults or be replaced. The popularity of the current Federal government is greatly falling. I ioffer solutions to the problems abettedly for hopefully in the not too distant future but for now I don’t see how change can be enacted unless we can convince the police to break the current laws.
By the way Happy New Year – let us hope it will be an improved year with action.

Kevin
Reply to  Dave
1 month ago

Dave, here is a start. Our political leaders could be providing more information about what work is being done. How about an update at tomorrow’s Mayor’s Levee?

You mentioned two really important points. One is the federal government is looking at the housing crisis. This will take several years to have any real effect but at least it is promising. Bringing in too many immigrants with no place for them to live is like inviting 20 friends to dinner, having them arrive and then start thinking about what to feed them.
Yes, federal laws do seem to enable drug use. BC is less than a year into a pilot program, is trying to change laws due to the negative results, and is in a legal battle with the courts. Changing laws is an important step.
The County is taking the housing situation seriously, although not in the way many Cobourg tax payers are happy with. The County is seeking public feedback so we should be giving it to them. What kind of facility do you want 310 Division to be? I can understand the hopeless feeling that it is a waste of time, but it is something we need to do. Make the public opinion known. Politicians making the decisions were voted in by us, are being paid by us, are supposed to be working for us and can be voted out by us.

I know this is not much of a solution. As long as mentally ill people and/or drug addicts are being enabled to live in the rough by providing them tents, food and drugs it is likely they will continue to do so. Some of these things are being supplied by people with good intentions. The drugs are being supplied to make a profit.
Yes, let’s hope it will be a better year. Don’t forget to be thankful for having a warm place to sleep and enough food to eat. If you worked to earn these things then you also can be thankful you had the opportunity to do so.

Sandpiper
Reply to  Dave
1 month ago

They will have to bring in some very strong Laws is what your saying
with Big Teeth and more policing that will force people into Rehabs and Mental health centers .
This sounds like more Govt. Make work and job creation , not necessarily a cure for
the increasing costs to a Law abiding society / community of Cobourg .

Again you can Lead a horse to water but you can’t make them take the cure .
The best thing is to remove and control their ability to Buy and Access to Drugs .
I have not heard of a real Drug Bust in years made by the local P D.
and if they are again miss using the Govt . sources of income & support they presently receive and are buying Non prescription drugs rather than food and shelter then the social program in place should be
more active in the control of cash flow and Tax Dollars .

Malcom
1 month ago

Happy New Year. This situation brings to mind two things my mother often said: “Walk a mile in their shoes” and “there but for the grace of God go I.”
Both hunger and homelessness are on the rise worldwide. Let’s hope a new year brings an opportunity to better understand and all work towards resolving these complex issues, that negatively impact our community.

Last edited 1 month ago by Malcom
small town Ontario
2 months ago

https://www.cobourgblog.com/assets/2023/Encampment-Press-Release-30Dec2023-1.pdf

Please read the press release John added in the blog above.
The go fund me campaign organizers are listed as Tony Mercieca and Jenni Freake

CountryGal
2 months ago

This situation has divided town & community. It could be explained as the receiving of power by one group at the expense of another group. Are we all not due the same protection under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms & the Human Rights Act? The advocates and their supporters have created the social fabric of acrimony within our community. They choose to keep the addicted, homeless and mentally challenged in the same state month over month under the guise of helping them to better themselves, yet openly promote illict drugs.
Be it known that since the beginning, particularly since the Division St. house of horrors was condemned, there has been not one word of prevention, rehabilitation, or recovery mentioned by any one of the “enablers”, any staff or volunteers at Greenwood, or Mclean, Frenke, et al.
The only clamor that gets repeated incessantly, is that there is a housing crisis and the encampment residents are due their just deserts of supplied housing under the feign of a housing first model. Yet, the encampment residents have shown time and again, over and over, that they are unable to care for themselves and for their belongings or even their own self worth.
Would it be too implausible to think that each of these campers has family and that if they were not drug induced and substance psychosis riddled, that their families would step in and assist with housing and supports? Our community knows best what it needs to feel sale, secure, trauma free and healthy. The public outcry has been enormous! The community has asked for municipal assistance. They have asked for Provincial assistance. They have banded together and demanded action. They continue to voice concerns and try and stand up for what is right. But they have been shuttered, brick walled and victim shamed. The majority of the community has had their own rights and freedoms under the Charter impinged by a small faction of radical individuals.
As in any situation that has espied throughout history, this too shall pass.
What will never be forgotten by this Community is the damage, the trauma and the consequences that the likes of ALL the enablers; Mclean, Frenke, Green Wood Coalition, the many business’s who supported the encampment, the councilors who names were attached to motions in support thereof, etc.
Each of the enablers will end up with some type of blood on their hands and will forever carry the burden of your choices and the consequences of their decisions.

Cindi
Reply to  CountryGal
2 months ago

Right on! It’s time people spoke out and stood up to these enablers who do nothing but perpetuate the cycle of drugs, crime and poverty while spitting on the concerned citizens and the police. SAY NO TO ENABLING AND NORMALIZING DRUG ADDICTION AND DRUG PUSHERS. SAY NO TO CRIMINAL BEHAVIOUR, SAY YES TO SHELTER, RECOVERY AND A HELPING HAND.

Kim
Reply to  CountryGal
2 months ago

Nobody chooses addiction or mental illness.

CountryGal
Reply to  Kim
2 months ago

Doing illicit, synthetic, highly addictive drugs was once a choice. That choice happened to turn into an addiction. Learning lesson = don’t do drugs because you will never know how your body or mind will react.
These drugs are cognitively forever mind altering and will create mental illnesses such as drug induced psychosis, drug induced schizophrenia, drug induced dystonia, etc.

Have you ever wondered why people go to lawyers and have Powers of Attorney’s made up? Well because when they end up having effects of diseases of the body and mind and can no longer make clear and concise mentally cognitive decisions for themselves, a family member or friend is appointed to be their Power of Attorney to make those choices for them. Dementia patients have families do this for them. When there is not Power of Attorney for someone who cannot make their own decisions, the person becomes a ward of the Crown.
The addicted and mentally challenged, if unhoused, should they continue to want to travel down this path and not make healthy, rational choices for themselves, should have to legally become the responsibility of the government and forced into treatment, however many times and how ever many years that takes.

It is deplorable that they continue to be enabled by individuals who are seeking to advance their own agenda.

The substance users and mentally ill who are unhoused in our community are pawns in a game that has billions of dollars of funding on the table and every one of the advocates across Canada want their hands in the pot to get some of the money.

Always follow the money.

Linda Mackenzie-Nicholas
Reply to  CountryGal
2 months ago

First of all- individuals who work towards ensuring the safety and well-being of the homeless population are not drug enablers..

Enabling typically refers to actions that support or encourage someone to continue engaging in self-destructive or harmful behavior. 

However—-ensuring the safety of the homeless, especially during extreme weather conditions, is a matter of basic human dignity. It is about prioritizing their well-being and showing compassion, rather than enabling destructive behavior.

Addressing the immediate needs of the homeless population, such as providing shelter, warmth, and food, is essential to prevent health risks, injuries, and even fatalities. Additionally, by connecting them with resources and support networks, these measures can empower individuals to find long-term solutions to improve their situations, such as accessing affordable housing or employment opportunities.

Research shows that investing in homelessness prevention and support services can be more cost-effective in the long run than dealing with the consequences of chronic homelessness, such as increased healthcare costs or legal interventions. This evidence suggests that helping the homeless is not only compassionate but also financially smart.

Of course what we really need is more affordable housing.

Jade
Reply to  Linda Mackenzie-Nicholas
2 months ago

Lmao and how’s that working out for you. Not one single tenter cares about having any sort of roof over their heads. It’s been proven time and again

CountryGal
Reply to  Linda Mackenzie-Nicholas
2 months ago

Here is the difference Linda, our community is not just experiencing homelessness. The town of Cobourg is experiencing a standoff occupation of lands that do not belong to the campers or Municipality and nor has been given permission to be occupied. This standoff is a direct result of the occupants of the house on Division St. being displaced due to their substance use and lack of ability to take care of a rental property whereby they had in excess of the standard number of occupants based on the Property Standards Act & the Fire Safety Code. It has been admitted to by the rental agreement owners that they would house up to 25 to 35 occupants at any given time. A standard home sewage, electric and structure system cannot handle those capacities. Therefore they were evicted when sewage overflowed and there became safety issues and the house became condemned. It was at that time that a local self proclaimed abolitionist who affiliated with Moms Stop the Harm stepped in and created the most divisive, prejudicial situation that has ever been experienced in this town. Decisions were made to move campers to municipal property. When bylaws could be adhered to, it was then decided by the advocates to move the campers to County property. As this also could be regulated, it was then decided to move the campers to Provincial property. Make no mistake, this was a calculated and structured decision with the assistance and help of a National Advocacy group that is pro drug usage, campaigners of the decriminalization of drugs and supporters of the normalization of open and illicit drug use, whereby legal representation was also obtained on behalf of the evicted by our own County Representatives. It has been well known in the community of Cobourg that this was planned and executed strategically. We are not dealing with economic homelessness. We are not dealing with job loss homelessness. We are not dealing with intimate partner homelessness. We are dealing with full on Drug Addiction homelessness as admitted by the encampment residents themselves! Where their own mental health issues are drug induced due to the current synthetically available drugs that they use. Each of the encampment residents have been offered differing shelter options. They HAVE been instructed not to accept anything other what they had when they were evicted! They are also not accepting any resources offered. They are being used as pawns. Do you wonder why this Town is so angry?

CountryGal
Reply to  CountryGal
2 months ago

Linda, I will tell you why the town is so angry. Do you think that the encampment residents would have reached out and accepted assistance and help by now if they did not have a gamut of drug decriminalization supporters, who have been telling them its against their rights to be stigmatized? That they are the most vulnerable members of the community? That they are due more to them, as un-working, non tax paying citizens than the residents who work hard for a living? For all the work that you have done in your union days, fighting for the rights and benefits for the hardest workers in society, you should be ashamed of yourself to be less supportive of the hard working, tax paying citizens of Northumberland County! Empathy and compassion are two very differing actions. You administrate a political group on Facebook where you only allow opinions that are acceptable to your own narrative, yet you are very unaware of the empathy and compassion that other Cobourg community members portray on a daily basis toward the homeless populous regardless of whether they are drug addicted or not. Yesterday it was brought to the attention of a number of community members that a Port Hope homeless individual was in need of transportation to a rehab centre in Port Colborne Ontario. The community members were told that GWC were unable to transport this individual to rehab. Are you aware that a large number of Cobourg residents jumped in to assist? Money was offered for transport. Cabs and ubers sourced out. Monies offered for new clothing and supplies so the individual was going into rehab with supplies. Offers of collections so that the person has a head start after completion of rehab. Are you aware that as soon as GWC heard that the members of a particular group reached out and offered to assist, that GWC called the organizer to chastise them for the communities involvement??? And GWC dropped this individual like a hot potato as soon as they would not be the saviours! So please take your holier than thou blog responses on here and move along. It is clearly observed from the down votes here that your reputation is abhorrent and that you are disrespected of any integrity within the community. You openly value yourself as an outspoken person who stands up for what you believe in. Maybe its time you were an outspoken person who stands up for the TRUE vulnerable, seniors/children, using the democratic process that you support.

Sonya
Reply to  CountryGal
1 month ago

WELL SAID!

Cindi
Reply to  CountryGal
2 months ago

WELL SAID

Scottie
Reply to  Linda Mackenzie-Nicholas
2 months ago

Linda, you’re missing the point here. From what I understand, the only people left in the “Brookside encampment” are severely drug-addicted. Unless they voluntarily check themselves into a recovery program (which I also understand is being offered to them free of charge!!) their future is severely compromised and no amount of “free housing” is going to assist them, as they are just too ill even to consider a move anywhere. I’m sure everyone feels sick every time they drive past all the tents and think of the people in there, but really, Linda, help has been offered to them. It’s time for you, for once, to see the reality of the situation and stop blaming everyone else. You’re not doing anyone any favours, most of all the people you’re claiming to be representing!

Harm
Reply to  Scottie
2 months ago

I agree wholeheartedly, Those who don’t want to be helped are only defeating the purpose of getting off the drug system of self reliance. Why should they be helped when good people try to assist them getting back to a stable lifestyle. Drugs are the cause of their problems and the first thing that has to happen is getting them off drugs and accept the drug recovery system.Linda see the realty and stop the blame game and that way you will be helping them!

Linda Mackenzie-Nicholas
Reply to  Scottie
1 month ago

I see the reality, I have also seen such reality for decades at workplaces across Canada too. I am not defending substance abuse. But that doesn’t mean I am interested in seeing people freeze to death.

Sonya
Reply to  Linda Mackenzie-Nicholas
1 month ago

Nobody is interested in seeing people freezing to death so that statement is useless. Most people will help someone cold or hungry.
There’s lots of room at transition house and a warming hub at st. Peter’s that’s costing tax payers 1/2 million. There’s no need for an encampment.

Linda Mackenzie-Nicholas
Reply to  Sonya
1 month ago

Transition House/temporary shelter is a nightmare for most including those who are looking for shelter inside as well as those those who are living in their own residences in the neighbourhood. Why would that be you ask? — Four bunk beds to a room , 2 washrooms for 22 people, having to leave every day with nowhere to go, high risk of thievery, violence, and I could of course go on and on. I hope the newly proposed shelter will help resolve some of these very real problems.

What we need are real housing solutions, harm reduction strategies, access to healthcare, addiction treatment, and support services to effectively address the housing and opioid crisis. I am not the only one who feels this way, (for example just take a look at the donations being put towards the encampment), but people are tired of the abuse being hurled at them because they simply want to see people survive. So they are doing their thing without being public about it.

Lets see more solutions being proposed. What do you suggest?

Sonya
Reply to  Linda Mackenzie-Nicholas
1 month ago

You say the shelter is a nightmare for the people using it and the neighbourhood around it. I agree. It’s a low barrier shelter.
The encampment is also a dangerous place to be for the inhabitants and the neighbourhood around it. Check the police reports. Another silly excuse for not using the shelter. There’s also st. Peter’s church which is costing tax payers 1/2 million dollars.
I didn’t know the encampment had luxury washrooms either.

small town Ontario
Reply to  Sonya
1 month ago

Yes, County council member Martin said $200,000. for the providers which I assume is St, Peter’s Church, and the rest of the money about $323,000 I suppose is for paid security and ….?not sure. Total cost $523,000, for a warming room in the church for 5 months, Nov.-March. Overnight reclining chairs and a TV, snacks etc for about 25 people. Pete Fisher has a utube video of the room. Seriously shocking, County spends all this, taxpayer money for 25 encampment people,
Add the cost of Transition House, possibly not used.
Add the cost of the Encampment
So, Northumberland County Council. Taxpayers, want and need you to publish a report in detail. .
How many individuals are using the overnight Warming Room?
How many are using Transition House?
Suggestion for next year- Use the empty jail cells at the Northumberland County Court House for those using illegal drugs and camping illegally.
It makes me sad to hear the stories and see the stress this criminal activity situation has put on many of our citizens, and the business community. Going on now for FAR TOO MANY YEARS!!
I am FED UP!!!!

Leslie M.
Reply to  Linda Mackenzie-Nicholas
1 month ago

Temporary shelter is not intended to be a “comfortable home”. This is where you have the journey to sobriety & the sequence of events topsy-turvy:

1.Get an Addictions Counsellor
2.Detox
3.Rehab
4.Work with Addictions Counsellor; discharge supports (Therapy, Housing & Job)

“Housing First” is not sustainable nor acceptable.

Any Addictions Counsellor will tell an addict; pets, partners & children all come after the person seeking sobriety.

Choices are: Responsibility over Victimhood, Life over Death.

Linda: Is Sobriety even a sentiment? (Rhetorical question).

Last edited 1 month ago by Leslie M.
Ben
Reply to  Leslie M.
1 month ago

If ‘housing first’ doesn’t work why has Quebec just adopted it. Why has it worked in Finland. It does work if the Pols do it properly.

Kevin
Reply to  Ben
1 month ago

Why did BC start a pilot program to allow drug use in public and then try to control it when it did not work? I don’t know the reasoning for Quebec to adopt ‘housing first.’ According to Wikipedia, Finland has reduced homelessness by 30 to 35%, from 2008 to 2021. In Cobourg our encampment has been reduced a similar amount in 5 months by the hard work of people working with existing programs, and possibly cold weather. The majority of Finland’s homeless people ‘couch surf’ in friends and relatives homes. Some of our ‘campers’ have burned that option.

Leslie M.
Reply to  Ben
1 month ago

Finland’s drug policy is prohibitionist: both serious drug offences, referring to drug manufacturing, trade & trafficking, as well as the use & possession of drugs is illegal & punishable.

We do not have a housing problem at the encampment we have a drug problem.

Providing “free” housing with no requirement to participate in drug treatment does not lead to decreased substance abuse, lower rates of overdose death & transform lives.

Address addiction, not just physical housing.

“Treatment First”, that is a cause worth fighting for.

Leslie M.
Reply to  Leslie M.
1 month ago

Ben, was hoping you would engage in reasonable, “brave” debate. In the absence of one, I read your article: https://burdreport.ca/

On one hand you have a large group of people who don’t care about them,” “deserve nothing & should be treated like shit!” “If you really want to see these opinions go to the “Cobourg News” – John Draper’s blog”
“My opinion is very much in the minority & rarely gets revealed as convos tend to be not convos but rants from people who will not engage in reasonable debate. The ‘venter & ravers’ tend to be just that – very angry people who want to deliver ‘hosepipe’ verbosity to anyone & everyone in sight.”

Yes Ben, your opinion is in the “minority”: “…to alleviate the problem is a program to build ‘barrier-free’ supportive housing units”.

Take another look at how well New York is faring, as you cite in your article.

Kevin
Reply to  Leslie M.
1 month ago

Well done Leslie M. I was hoping Ben would provide more information about why Finland’s program is working. If it is really such a good option maybe we could try it with the treatment programs etc. I don’t think we “have a large group of people who don’t care about them,” It is more that the addicts don’t seem to care about themselves.

ben
Reply to  Kevin
1 month ago

Why don’t you ask Why Quebec is Starting a “Housing First” programme – I just tell you where to find the info you have to do the rest!

Try reading this: https://affordablehousingaction.org/a-handbook-on-housing-first-from-finland/

Last edited 1 month ago by ben
Kevin
Reply to  ben
1 month ago

Thanks for the link Ben. Here is a related one:
Finland’s successful approach to ending homelessness catches eye of Quebec City | Globalnews.ca
From this article is doesn’t seem Quebec City is going to take a housing first approach. Finland has reduced homelessness but still has homeless people. Housing first in Finland includes 24 hour supervised housing and supportive housing. We have similar programs here. The CMHA rents private apartments for people who can live on their own with supervision. Community Living in Cobourg provides many services depending on the needs of their clientele. There are group homes with 24 hour supervision. Maybe we need more of these services. Do not forget the homeless people in the encampment did have homes a few months ago. There was no supervision and the homes were destroyed. Offers have been made and rejected because there are rules. In a recent interview, Chris N. mentions 310 Division and moving in, if it is suitable. Maybe somebody could find out exactly what these people would find suitable. Then we could have a debate if taxpayers are willing to fund their wants.

ben
Reply to  Leslie M.
1 month ago

Now you know why I don’t engage in the usual “brave debate” it is neither brave nor debate with most posters.

Leslie M.
Reply to  ben
1 month ago

Ben, you cite New York & Finland. In 1992 New Yorker Sam Tsemberis (social worker) created the “Housing First” policy. 30 years on & it has been proven to not work. 

New York Crime, addictions & homelessness has substantially increased — look also at San Francisco, Newsom “built enough permanent housing to house every single chronically homeless individual in the city back in 2011”. Instead of “ending homelessness,” as promised, the city became an international slogan for the homelessness crisis.

Again, Finland’s drug policy is prohibitionist: both serious drug offences, referring to drug manufacturing, trade & trafficking, as well as the use & possession of drugs is illegal & punishable.

We do not have a Housing problem at the encampment — we have 18 people with Addictions.

Leslie M.
Reply to  Leslie M.
1 month ago
ben
Reply to  Leslie M.
1 month ago

In 1992 New Yorker Sam Tsemberis (social worker) created the “Housing First” policy. 30 years on & it has been proven to not work. “

It obviously has not worked in those places because demand has outstripped both supply and budgets!

Leslie M.
Reply to  ben
1 month ago

Ben, if you read the articles you would not be putting forth such a simplistic, ridiculous one-liner.

Have you ever lived with an addict? It is hellish. Barrier free housing for 18 people living with addictions is ludicrous & irresponsible. Bedlam. Develop self worth & be healthy, productive members of society through treatment.

Did you see COSIC is up for sale? Why would Cobourg & County develop 30+ year policies that are proven to not work?

You staunchly repudiate any common sense, experience & evidence — that will only further harm our community & the 18 people with addictions, refusing existing supports @ our great financial & emotional expense.

Ben
Reply to  Leslie M.
1 month ago

This retort has nothing to do with the “housing first” concept just a reaction to a post that you obviously did not like. Just proving debate is neither brave nor debate

Leslie M.
Reply to  Ben
1 month ago

Re-read Ben. Comment has Everything to do with “Housing First” & its disastrous effects of the Housing First Concept.

Your refusal to dive deeper, comment & answer relevant questions is fine by me. Cheers.

LivesinCobourg
Reply to  Leslie M.
1 month ago

We do not have a Housing problem at the encampment — we have 18 people with Addictions”
Bingo Leslie. This is the issue.

downtowner
Reply to  Ben
1 month ago

Could be their “Housing” has higher barriers…learning from the problems being identified elsewhere and they are making an effort with enhancement rather than no effort at all.
Haven’t researched , just throwing it out there

Tucker
Reply to  Linda Mackenzie-Nicholas
1 month ago

Linda, do you have room to “house” some of the “homeless” you seem to think you are helping? If you do, this would be the best solution. Every one of your “supporters” could take one of the “homeless” into their own home. How about that!!!

Leslie M.
Reply to  Linda Mackenzie-Nicholas
1 month ago

You state, “…people are tired of the abuse being hurled at them because they simply want to see people survive. So they are doing their thing without being public about it.”

‘Abuse’? Absurd. The abuse I have seen is extremely racist comments made by TweakEasy towards residents of Cobourg, a letter from a child stating the encampment is a “happy” place, victim-shaming, etc.

Without being public’? Also inane; apparently a number of sites on the Facebook dedicated to the encampment, touring of schools & Townhall to children & public, Letters & videos to newspapers, a number of gofundme sites, press releases, Delegations, & the Injection site up & running illegally again. Preposterous claims at being humble.

downtowner
Reply to  Linda Mackenzie-Nicholas
1 month ago

These folks have admitted that they are a family, supportive of one another and cohabitating as they would be at Transition House.There are families that have 10 or 12 children plus parents and perhaps even grandparents living together under one roof with one bathroom and Police are not called to their home on a continual basis.
To suggest that there is something unusual having lesser facilities and that being a problem l think you are mistaken. Many make do with what they have and keep a clean, orderly household. It’s about wanting what you have not having what you want.

downtowner
Reply to  downtowner
1 month ago

Also, when they were all crowded together at Division , James/George apt., Battell ct. James/John, residences they destroyed, there certainly weren’t beds for everyone and at the apt. One bathroom, …..just saying

downtowner
Reply to  Linda Mackenzie-Nicholas
1 month ago

The donations to the encampment ,by the go fund me page’s outline, is purchasing tents and fire wood.There is no mention of monies going to healthcare, addiction treatment,or support services……….all of which are available so would indeed be redundant but also no mention of addressing the crisis in a meaningful way. I suggest the people in crisis avail themselves of the available options and work within the system to make changes to address the few shortfalls being identified. Work positively for themselves.

Realist
Reply to  Linda Mackenzie-Nicholas
2 months ago

This is about 18 people in this particular encampment who chose to live this way. They care not to rehabilitate seek intervention or go back to steady employment and to get themselves to horizon house. If they do then great. But you can’t be that naive to realize that some choose to live the way they do and as you

Bill Thompson
Reply to  Linda Mackenzie-Nicholas
1 month ago

There appears to be more mention of mental illness being the major problem over drug addiction .
Any comments on the police /judicial system carrying out major action on the drug dealers playing a major part on this disaster ?!
Where there’s a market for illegal drugs there will always be no shortage of dealers.
Surely they must be well known by the authorities yet no mention.
Catch and release standard practice no matter what ?

Silverhairedsilver
Reply to  CountryGal
1 month ago

Country Gal- please run for mayor!!!!

Cindi
Reply to  Kim
2 months ago

They choose to do the first shot of coke or whatever, they could say no. Continuing to enable them rather than counselling rehab is tantamount to manslaughter. Enablers should be charged with aiding and abetting.

mcpissed
Reply to  Kim
1 month ago

This morning i made a choice! This choice became an addiction that hit me so hard you could never realise Kim. I’m addicted to finding bonehead replies like the one you left above and rolling my eyes as I type. Now I’m a hardcore addict but of my own choice. The addiction fairy did not drop this on me! I actually chose this dirty, devilish, addiction on my own free will………seeeeeee where I’m going with this Kimmer?

Bill Thompson
Reply to  Kim
1 month ago

Then why do they not accept the services that are available to them ?
The road back to a normal life is potentially available to them so let’s put the onus of failure where it belongs instead of those who are law abiding citizens.

Art Emes
2 months ago

Northumberland County should create an ,off the main drag, route ,complete with solar powered shacks, outdoor toilets, drinking water,(replenished or piped in),daily visiting soup trucks,and Uber drivers(city contracted),to drive them to the nearest shack or next county.All of this will be video monitored. A nation wide loop, is the long term goal…..

Leslie
2 months ago

Most caring & compassionate people care about the reality of goodness, not the perception of it. What I see happening here is people who care about looking good, while doing great damage to the 17 addicted persons, our Town, our Community & our Most Vulnerable — Seniors & Children. The “solution” is Rehabilitation, in order to gain a healthy, clear mind — respect & love for oneself, without that you have anarchical behaviours & consequently bedlam.

If people (“advocates”) cared about the reality of goodness, they would have begun their efforts in facilitating this, long ago.

The other solution is to vote out the Liberal-NDP-socialist coalition that supports & perpetuates division & this “perception” of goodness.

(Going forward I will refer to myself as Leslie M. As I see there is another Leslie commenting below. Thank you.)

Last edited 2 months ago by Leslie
Sonya
Reply to  Leslie
2 months ago

I will second your comment Leslie.

Chevalgal
Reply to  Sonya
2 months ago

Yes, rehabilitation would be ideal. But how do you “make” people choose that option? Conservatives and right wingers are big believers in “individual freedoms” so officially would be against forcing people to do something against their will, right? And remember that liberals and socialists are who brought you free health care, 40-hr work weeks, public education, the Canada Pension Plan, and more. And Conservatives like Doug Ford are currently doing all they can to privatize medicare, as well as destroy the environment. And Poilievre is Trump Lite. Be careful what you wish for.

Leslie M.
Reply to  Chevalgal
2 months ago

In our Province & Country you cannot “make” people choose rehabilitation. There was no mention of “force” in above comment. Liberal Prime Minister Lester B. Pearson (not a socialist) can be commended for many great institutions & programs, your point is moot.

The Liberal Party of today (compared to Pearson’s 1960s reign) has gone so far & extreme to the left, it is barely recognizable…you are comparing apples & oranges. I am also not sure why the necessity to discuss Trump?

Extremism on either side of the political spectrum is dangerous. It suffocates true progression in all fields of human development; it is destructive to everything but war & tribalism. You have not provided much meat to the bone in your comment, yet rattled off inaccurate “reminders” & “warnings” that are getting way “off topic”.

Ken Strauss
Reply to  Leslie M.
2 months ago

LeslieM, other criminals are not allowed to “choose” rehabilitation but are incarcerated upon conviction. Why should addicts have a choice?

Leslie M.
Reply to  Ken Strauss
1 month ago

Hi there Ken, Happy New Year.

The #1 job of our government should be to ensure people are safe when they walk down the street. We should not have to look over our shoulders, we have a right not to be randomly grabbed, punched, kicked, threatened with death, spit on or worse.

People are suffering. People are an imminent danger to themselves & others. Yes, I believe there are individuals who need a more assertive intervention to ensure they get better, to save their life, & to keep our communities safe.  

Drug fueled crime is increasing & jeopardizing the safety of our community. There must be a path to intervene when someone is a danger to themselves or others.

Similar to an existing Form 1 Psychiatric Assessment would
allow a family member, doctor, or police officer to make an appeal to court for a treatment order when someone is a danger to themselves or others. That treatment order could require that person to take part in treatment for their addiction & drug use to save their life & protect the safety of our community.

Leslie M.
Reply to  Ken Strauss
1 month ago

Hi there Ken, Happy New Year.

The #1 job of our government should be to ensure people are safe when they walk down the street. We should not have to look over our shoulders, we have a right not to be randomly grabbed, punched, kicked, threatened with death, spit on or worse.

People are suffering. People are an imminent danger to themselves & others. Yes, I believe there are individuals who need a more assertive intervention to ensure they get better, to save their life, & to keep our communities safe….

Leslie M.
Reply to  Leslie M.
1 month ago

…Drug fueled crime is increasing & jeopardizing the safety of our community. There must be a path to intervene when someone is a danger to themselves or others.

Similar to an existing Form 1 Psychiatric Assessment would
allow a family member, doctor, or police officer to make an appeal to court for a treatment order when someone is a danger to themselves or others. That treatment order could require that person to take part in treatment for their addiction & drug use to save their life & protect the safety of our community.

Sonya
Reply to  Leslie M.
1 month ago

Leslie I personally know people that had to go through that process and that is what saved their lives. That was 20 plus years ago and they are living perfectly functioning drug free lives today.

ben
Reply to  Ken Strauss
1 month ago

Perhaps Ken because addicts are not criminals the suppliers are!

Ken Strauss
Reply to  ben
1 month ago

Ben, a consumer of illegal drugs is a criminal as are their suppliers and their enablers. Why do you opine otherwise?

Cindi
Reply to  Chevalgal
2 months ago

Total poppycock, what does Trump have to do with it…

Sonya
Reply to  Chevalgal
1 month ago

In some cases I do believe in forced rehab and mental help. These people are a danger to themselves and others.
They can also be given a choice by a judge. Either rehab or jail.

Rational
2 months ago

Why hasn’t Lucas Cleveland commented on this latest topic concerning the Encampment? We know he read it because he commented on an off topic post just a few minutes ago..

I believe he just doesn’t care enough about Cobourg. Full stop.

Beachwalker
Reply to  Rational
2 months ago

He has commented …. many times. Give him a visit and ask him what he thinks. You might be surprised!

Rational
Reply to  Beachwalker
2 months ago

By not commenting on this latest topic I was referring to the wood burning stoves being implement. We all know his position on the Encampment – He sees nothing, hears nothing, it’s Infrastructure Ontario’s problem. Lucas Cleveland holds the position of Mayor does he not?

By saying nothing today on the wood stove issue, when he had time to talk about traffic lights, in my view, demonstrates indifference.

Rational
Reply to  Rational
1 month ago

Adding to my comment – on Mayor Cleveland’s Facebook page is a posting last week about the fire dangers of cigarette smoking. He says for safety, smoke outside and use a sturdy ashtray. So again I question why when he was on this blog topic yesterday of wood burning stoves in tents for drug addicts why did he only talk to a traffic light and not about the dangers of hot tenting.

On the Deputy Mayor’s Facebook page just yesterday it is noted that top of her list is “community”.

The frustration I have is that the two leaders of the Community do not want to acknowledge what a significant part of the Community see and that is a drug and crime problem being exasperated by the encampment and the enablers. And that a group of 20 to 30 people are holding a town of 20,000 hostage. And no public statements from leadership or police enforcement.

Cobourg’s story would make a good episode remake of the 1960s sci-fi show Twilight Zone.

small town Ontario
Reply to  Beachwalker
2 months ago

The Mayor, Conservative MP Lawrence, Conservative MPP Piccini are all elected by the Voters.
I do not want to hear what each one of them think about the encampment in a private meeting.
The Mayor, Conservative MP Lawrence, Conservative MPP Piccini as elected representatives need to make a public statement, from the encampment, to all voters. Tell all how you propose to solve this illegal encampment.
IMO, their solution to resolve this problem will determine my vote next election day.

Sandpiper
Reply to  Beachwalker
2 months ago

What might he Say ??
Christmas is Coming ! again

The Decision to Buy the Division st Retirement
New Transition house won’t solve the Problem if
you can’t get people to Gooooooooooooo
and it will hold a lot more people than what we have been told so look out
more will move or be moved here by the County just to justify the purchase

mcpissed
Reply to  Rational
2 months ago

Uhhh. Does he even pay taxes in this town?

Kevin
Reply to  mcpissed
2 months ago

I think he rents an apartment in town. His landlord pays part of the rent to the town in taxes.

ben
2 months ago

Be careful for what all you anti campers wish for! Just ask yourself where these people would go to if the tents were removed and the occupants dispersed. Where would they go?

None of you have an answer to that in this board. I would suggest that this board would explode with righteous indignation if the tents were destroyed and so many newly displaced persons were spread all over Cobourg – as they were before the tents were set up.

If any anger is to be directed it should be at the County, which is responsible for transitional housing and the Province for not creating policies that enable housing to be built very quickly and cheaply, if one eliminates the profit motive.

It should be recognised that the next step in housing the unhoused after a shelter – with its many rules and problems is non existent in this world of Northumberland.

Low cost ‘social housing’ – small apartments, and housing for families is the next step. 48 units, of which only 22 are rent geared to income (RGI) is only a drop in the bucket when over a 1000 people are on the wait list for such housing and it can take ten years to get a place. After all the County demolished 18 units to create the 48 a net gain of only 4 RGI units.

Let’s be practical here, all of you are angry and want to vent but what are you going to do to take it to the next step?

Last edited 2 months ago by ben
Dave
Reply to  ben
2 months ago

Ben – why provide housing for people unable to maintain it and keep their responsibility to live civilly and pay the rent? We have already seen the example of how these people lived in the condemned house on Division, a proved fact they can’t look after themselves bring multiple people in and destroy the premises. Do you have any practical solutions that would work? My only one is change the Federal government, bring in laws that do not allow drug addled people to live as they choose without rules. I know the election is a way off but this is the only solution that will work for this group.

ben
Reply to  Dave
2 months ago

Answer the question – where would the displaced people go – stop making excuses for not proposing solutions!!

Dave
Reply to  ben
2 months ago

I have Ben – and I stated the Federal Election is so far a year off. Until then we are stuck with these parasites on life, as is Toronto and Peteborough, people that refuse all assistance and opportunity to change the way they live. In the end there is only one solution. New strong laws that make this illegal to enfringe upon the rights of society. Your solution won’t work. Peterborough has put up “cans” for some of them but I believe the people selected to live in the cans are governed to some degree, cherry picking and the problem there it is reported continues to grow as more and more flock there for all the freebees they can get.

ben
Reply to  Dave
2 months ago

In the end there is only one solution. New strong laws that make this illegal to enfringe upon the rights of society.”

And what would these laws be after all to follow your thinking one would have to destroy Human Rights Legislation. Just tell us what these laws would be if you were in charge!

Beachwalker
Reply to  Dave
2 months ago

I think that the ” Parasites on life” are the thumbs downers in their big houses who believe that they know it all. Problem with Cobourg is lack of compassion.

Dave
Reply to  Beachwalker
2 months ago

Look where its got Toronto Beachwalker. In days gone by there were laws that governed people who selected to use illegal drugs that assisted in a tough love way to have many living such lives seek help and live fruitful lives. Your compassion is misplaced. Growing up in the then worst area of Toronto I knew many of the predecessors of what is now inhabiting our parks with impunity spewing their needles, breaking into houses etc. etc. and terrorizing all in the community now just people that own big homes.

Dave
Reply to  Dave
2 months ago

Edit – “now just people” should be not just people.

Leslie M.
Reply to  Beachwalker
2 months ago

Dave is correct in his usage of the term Parasitic behaviour: Relying/ Depending on or requiring a person or thing for support.

The opposite being Independent or Salubrioushealthy & admirable characteristics that compassionate persons would encourage in those they are aiming to assist.

Your defensive assumption that a large group of people who do not agree with your opinion have “big houses” & “know it all”, exemplifies your prejudice — not a ‘Problem with Cobourg lacking Compassion.’

Such a misused word to try and invoke guilt & shutdown conversations somehow. Rather silly. Do you think you are morally superior?

Cindi
Reply to  Beachwalker
2 months ago

I’m all for helping out most people down on their luck, but not one thin dime to crackheads and dealers who suck the life out of a community. Help people with recovery and shelter, if refuse, tough on them.

Leslie
Reply to  ben
2 months ago

Perhaps the displacement will take care of itself if:
1. Naloxone is not available at no charge.
2. Fires are not stoked properly.
3. The drug dealers sell them a poisonous supply.
It’s called Darwinism…

Jen
Reply to  Leslie
2 months ago

I am disgusted that you haters exist on the planet I live on

Tucker
Reply to  ben
2 months ago

They should go back to where they came from. I’m sure they all have some sort of identification on them, if they are domiciled in Port Hope, take them back, Peterboro, take them back. Cobourg didn’t start off with 20, 30 or 40 homeless. At least now with the “go fund me “account, all the names of the people that are supporting these addicts will now be known to all of us.

Sandpiper
Reply to  Dave
2 months ago

Its not that they can’t pay rent They won’t pay rent
They would rather spend it on Pleasurable items of Their choice .
Then when it s $$$ all gone — POOR ME
It should be FOOLISH YOU and Stupid us for continuing to
allow support money for food , shelter etc to be mis spent

The Laws where always there
the Bleeding hearts choose to look the other way
I have said it before Public Intoxication is not permitted over serving Liquor
is illegal verbal & physical assault / threatening is never Ok in todays society
watch and see how many Rides programs are out there to night
The Law should be applied equally.

Marilyn
Reply to  ben
2 months ago

They could go to the places that have been offered, but they are choosing not to go. They are also refusing help with their addictions and they won’t accept that either. If I choose to stay out in the cold when offered a warm place to stay and I die who’s fault is that? They have established their own community in this encampment and don’t want to leave it. They have created a terrible eye sore in the community and it is an awful mess requiring clean up crews to go in periodically and clean it up. I’m sure if you provided them with housing they would soon create another mess and destroy it too. There is no easy solution to this problem, but with the new transition house having been established, there is no reason for these people to remain living in this encampment. I’m sure they don’t want to move to this new facility because there are rules. It is time for them to go.

LittleTowner
Reply to  ben
2 months ago

“Just ask yourself where these people would go to if the tents were removed and the occupants dispersed. Where would they go?” Into Transition house and the motel rooms that are currently available for them. It’s not ideal for some but neither is the encampment. This will likely become more apparent as the cold sets in. Encouraging the encampment is encouraging anarchy. Not helping the people in the encampment is inhumane but helping in a way that threatens the larger population is not right either. What people are “doing” is begging for law enforcement and for our governments at all levels to develop actual solutions because that is their responsibility as elected and appointed leaders.

mcpissed
Reply to  LittleTowner
1 month ago

I like the cut of your Jib LittleTowner..

downtowner
Reply to  ben
2 months ago

OK Ben, here’s my shot. Many years ago ,close to 45, the Provincial Government downloaded responsibility of individuals in the Ontario Hospital system. Many residents were placed into group homes, nursing homes, independent living with supports and supervision and some into homes as boarders. Consideration for each individual’s capability to fend for themselves, handle their budget and keep their abode and their personal care was considered before an option was chosen.Private organizations took on a great number of these folks mainly with developmental issues and continue to do so in a responsible, healthy manner.
What has developed is a system where upon identification of a problematic condition or illness one may be assigned an assistance pension to help someone survive in our society. This system lacks greatly in follow up when not subject to Government accountability or standards. One who is issued a pension and living by their own means and standards may fail to fully meet their own health and welfare needs without conceiving any concern for their own safety.The shelter system has been devised to help with those shortfalls but because it is not required to reside there to gain help it is being abused and bad money spent after good intentions and there has been a movement in our society to accept all people as they are.
I can accept all people but those who are not clear thinking need a more structured life where they may have to actually abide by rules and regular assessment as to progress. This comes in a facility wherein all of your money from Government funding is surrendered for your care….not unlike that which most of us may require as we age.
Such facilities could be formed from the reinvention of the shelter system to a residential care facility where progress is monitored and guidance for re-entry to a healthy life is possible. Suspension of Government aide could be necessary for this to work, harsh as that sounds, but the ultimate care for those around us struggling is the goal.
None of this offered solution would be immediate but suspension of money until an individual accepts responsibility [where possible] for their own plight and moving to the existing shelter options viable at present to begin healing or at least be warm and dry are sensible. End of the day more money needs to be spent on helping not assisting
OK have at it Ben

Cathy
Reply to  ben
2 months ago

Ben, they can’t even keep a house/apartment let alone care for themselves. This brings to mind of being “in care”, and detox/rehab must be part of the discussion. There’s a lot of anger to go around, and you are correct, the county owns much of the responsibility. Shipping people from other areas must stop, we don’t have an endless money tree. I’m not sure what you mean by your statement, “what are you going to do to take the next step.” The current status quo isn’t working. Please clarify your statement.

ben
Reply to  Cathy
2 months ago

” “what are you going to do to take the next step.” “

A very good question posed as a challenge to all those ‘ravers and venters’ on this board. As John mentioned in his year-end post “How about some constructive criticism!”

How about coming up with some ideas and potential solutions and passing them on the elected Pols who are sitting on their arses ignoring the problem.

Last edited 2 months ago by ben
Leslie M.
Reply to  ben
2 months ago

A crooked & deflective sidestep to Cathy’s question — the very query you incessantly pose to others.

ben
Reply to  Leslie M.
2 months ago

this was Cathy’s question – “Please clarify your statement”

Tell me what was crooked and deflective about my answer. Read my answer again and see how I failed to clarify. Please tell me how you see the clarification.

None so blind as those who don’t want to see!”

Leslie M.
Reply to  ben
2 months ago

Yes, I was blinded — as I have re-read the comment, I see. My apologies. It is probably due to the Illusory Truth Effect; your incessant probing at commentators to come up with “solutions”…yet I do not see any sustainable “solutions” posed by you. We pay high taxes for our elected officials to provide solutions to a problem we see through very different lenses.

Happy New Year

ben
Reply to  Leslie M.
2 months ago

“yet I do not see any sustainable “solutions” posed by you”

No problem Leslie M, here is one:

One of the solutions proposed by many and one that has has worked in other jurisdictions has been the provision of safe shelters and rooms for the homeless.

I know some in the tents have refused shelter for a myriad of reasons and we also know that a minority of anti-social individuals do not flourish well in structured situations but we also know from Europe and New York City that a way off the streets is the provision of housing beyond the shelters.

This housing, as I said before, does not exist in Northumberland. The County has that jurisdiction and is slooooowly working on it. The acquisition of the Seniors Residence on Division St would have been ideal for that conversion.

An obvious conversion would be the Old Golden Plough. But obstinate County Pols have refused to revisit the plan since the decision was made 12 years ago.

Both you and I can come up with suggestions for change but until we can pull the County Pols heads’ from you know where and until we can push Minister Piccinni to influence his Cabinet colleagues that we have a problem nothing will get done.

Keep on with the suggestions, they infuriate the “ranters and ravers”

Happy New Year to you too

Last edited 2 months ago by ben
Ken Strauss
Reply to  ben
2 months ago

Ben, a “high barrier” facility — absolutely no drugs, fights or abuse of staff — with a one strike and you’re out forever rule would be a good use for both the Division Street and the Golden Plough. Such facilities would be great for those who deserve our help. Anything less will just add to Cobourg’s drug and petty crime problems.

Jade
Reply to  ben
2 months ago

Ben you sound like the Ben that lives among the tenters

ben
Reply to  Jade
1 month ago

I know what you sound like but will not repeat it and demean the quality of the posts on this board.

Sandpiper
Reply to  ben
2 months ago

Ben The people were spread all over Cobourg You just did not see them
Now that BY Law went into the Tannery Lands a while back and cleaned it up and out
many of these Campers were living up there in Makeshift Lein tos and tents
back in the trees behind the fences .
This came to light when the Town did its Video on The Tanny district back in I believe March April and the Town became alarmed at what was actually going on in there ..
Thomas Mtrs , residents and other Bossiness in the area had known this for years and were struggling with the problems of theft etc for along time .

Cindi
Reply to  ben
2 months ago

Would you rent to them, who would after their last housing had to be condemned.

Bill Thompson
Reply to  ben
1 month ago

Where were all the campers before should be the question and why are they here in Cobourg specifically from elsewhere ?
Coincidental or the word passed ?

Sandpiper
2 months ago

I believe all of these Campers are receiving ODSP
which comes with stipulations on it use and Purpose
Its not for Cigarettes , Booze or Non prescription Drugs
It may also be suspended for Criminal Acts
So who is Monitoring the Tax Payers Handouts these people are receiving. Who is reporting the Criminal acts ( Police ) ?? Also any and all Donations and income from other sources is to be declared and reported to the Agencies in Charge
Is the County not overseeing some of this ?? or is it all the Peterborough ODSP office .

If they need wood move to the Northumberland reforestation and try cutting your own
a lot of rural home owners still do not everyone can afford to buy it.
You can certainly make a food run to town in a cab for less than $400 per wk
Its was called a Comune back in the 60 & 70s you might even try growing some
Food & Vegies in the spring
Besides that the Leader Chris was in a Union had a real Trade with a family
Try asking him why he no longer works for a living ???

cornbread
2 months ago

So, it’s ok for the tent people to use wood to keep warm…is there a Carbon Tax on wood for heating purposes?…we all pay the “CT” on natural gas and oil. This tent people thing is becoming a provincial/federal joke. Put these people in institutions…hard stop on drugs…and hopefully return them to productive human beings. If they continue to have no regard for themselves, do drugs and expect society to revive them when they overdose…then let them be on their own.

Rational
2 months ago

IMO the Town of Cobourg and the Sponsors of this latest Go Fund Me (GFM) initiative will be both directly liable if injury or death result from the hot stoves.

The GFM post would suggest that the Cobourg Fire Department (CFD) are sanctioning the initiative (this is misleading), thus giving support to donations. My understanding is that after an onsite inspection 2 months ago the one stove that exists met requirements after some fixes. Each situation is independent.

Hot camping requires proper set up and responsible campers following safety procedures. Are the Encampment Residents (all confirmed drug addicts) considered responsible when drug induced?

The 3 most dangerous aspects of hot camping are the tent catching fire, carbon monoxide poisoning, and burning yourself. The flue chimney needs to be brushed/cleaned out every 2 -3 days to prevent CO2 backup, chimney connections need to be continually checked, top tent vents need to remain open, it is highly recommended not to burn over night, welders gloves are recommended for handling the stove door. While fire extinguishers and battery CO Detectors are provided cold batteries drain quickly or perform poorly. Again, will the Residents check all these areas for safety – no I think not. Is it possible they may even sell the Extinguishes and CO Detectors for drug money.

Toronto shut down an Encampment over fire concerns.

To the Mayor and Council – your are responsible for Cobourg even though the Encampment is on Provincial property. Stop saying you only have 1 vote whenever a difficult situation arises and work together. Put a stop to this, please.

Last edited 2 months ago by Rational
Rational
Reply to  Rational
1 month ago

First fire. This time it was a nap sack leaning against a wood stove. Someone is going to get hurt and those allowing this will at some point be responsible.

https://todaysnorthumberland.ca/2024/01/02/no-injuries-after-fire-destroys-tent-at-encampment-in-cobourg/

The Encampment leader says they are waiting for 310 Division to open. As long as it is suitable for them. Seriously?

Mr. Mayor and Council Members you need to take
action to effectively deal with this situation – which is shut it down. You now have a valid reason to do so.

Last edited 1 month ago by Rational
Concerned Taxpayer
2 months ago

On another topic… is there any chance the Town can better synchronize the timing of the traffic lights at Ontario and Elgin Street? All other lights around town seem to be better synchronized than this one. Why is that? It is a very long light and interrupts traffic and increases idling times. Secondly what is the future direction on expansion of Kerr Street across town? Anyone know?

Cobourg taxpayer
Reply to  Concerned Taxpayer
2 months ago

If I remember right (Elgin/Ontario) that could be a county issue?

Lucas cleveland
Reply to  Concerned Taxpayer
2 months ago

I believe the timing issue is already being looked at but will confirm in the new year. If you want to know the future of Kerr street please just send an email to me at town and I will put you in contact with people who actually know about future plans. When looking for information about town plans and systems I would highly recommend doing so at the town.

Merry Christmas and happy new years

PeteM
Reply to  Concerned Taxpayer
2 months ago

County and Town set it up that way as it was a high collision intersection.
Its done that way to reduce collisions resulting from left turn movements.
I do agree that there can be a better sequence of advance left turn lights– both east and west elgin get an advance left turn.

Jamie
2 months ago

I never comment on here but the rumour is ‘ Tony and friends” on go fund me is Tony Pulla – can anyone confirm please

Jade
Reply to  Jamie
2 months ago

Tony is from a church

Jamie
Reply to  Jade
2 months ago

Oh, I heard it was Tony Pulla from several people- thank you.

Cindi
Reply to  Jamie
2 months ago

I believe it is a member of the church.

Erin
Reply to  Cindi
2 months ago

I doubt it. His whole life and income is based on real estate sales. People really think he would fund or support something that would be detrimental to his career and clients??? I get ppl want answers, but use your head

Cobourg taxpayer
Reply to  Jamie
2 months ago

To be very clear it is not Tony Pulla. Those spearheading this funding do attend a local church in Cobourg but the pastor has made it clear they are not members of the church and the raising of money for the encampment is not associated with the church in any way.

Jamie
Reply to  Cobourg taxpayer
2 months ago

Thank you

Jan Rosamond
Reply to  Jamie
2 months ago

I don’t usually comment on here either but I can tell you for sure, first hand that it is not Tony Pulla who has started a Go Fund Me.

ben
Reply to  Jan Rosamond
2 months ago

So what if he did would that make him a bad person?

Nikki
Reply to  ben
1 month ago

Ben, not everything must be framed as a social justice issue. Jan is clearing up the confusion that Cobourg’s gossip mill created. Shouldn’t’ credit be given where it is due? To the proper “Tony and friends”?

Rob
Reply to  ben
1 month ago

Ben – it may make a significant difference to those who are selling a home where the property values are shrinking as a result of a crime and drug riddled encampment being nearby or it could make a difference to someone buying a home and looking for an agent who aligns with their personal values. Your home is your biggest investment, so yes it could make a difference in your opinion of him and whether you choose to conduct business with him.

Fortunately it doesn’t sound like it is him.

ben
Reply to  Rob
1 month ago

But the smear still lingers!

small town Ontario
Reply to  Rob
1 month ago

https://www.cobourgblog.com/assets/2023/Encampment-Press-Release-30Dec2023-1.pdf

One of the campaign organizers of the go fund me is a Tony Mercieca- see link from John’s blog –

ben
Reply to  ben
1 month ago

“I never comment on here but the rumour is ‘ Tony and friends” on go fund me is Tony Pulla – can anyone confirm please”

The reason I posted the comment is simple when I read the above post – that started the thread it seemed to me to be none of anybody’s business who the “Tony” was and secondly an implied smear. Bad post!

Last edited 1 month ago by ben
ben
Reply to  Jamie
2 months ago

John this is definitely off-topic why didn’t you delete this comment as well as the other one?

mcpissed
2 months ago

Whoops! No wood?

Please stop using the people living in the encampment as your personal feel good, do good festival!!!
Fact: winter camping sucks and requires huge amounts of fuels burnt in tents that have almost nil insulation to simply stop the true killer which is the “cold” winter soon to come, at a constant rate of feeding to your supplied stoves to keep up.

This last stand as I will call it has to stop before one of the mentally ill, addicts, elderly, homeless etc encamped does not wake up to feed a fire which spells death in a winter camp situation easily overnight. A tragedy is unfolding before your eyes if this path is followed so spend the donated money wisely. If Cobourg can’t help everyone then look to neighbouring communities for help and respite for those in need. Please use the money raised either personally or through coalition groups to house those in need who won’t follow the given program guidelines and bring them with open arms and understanding into your own homes to truly make a difference instead of using the downtrodden, encamped people in Cobourg as your own disgusting political spectacle you xxxxx xxxxxx [Editor’s note: Edited for offensive language]!!!

downtowner
Reply to  mcpissed
2 months ago

Agree, misguided ideals of this situation and misspent funds. If these organizers deem this a safe existence as winter prepares to settle in, perhaps join in and chop the wood. Set yourselves up for possible legal consequences twice. Once as Ken points out as abetters and secondly as participants.But, wait a second,most of you enablers likely have jobs that you are committed to, families to feed , taxes to pay, a home and a future to plan for. The campers have exhausted that which the County and the Town have to offer to get in out of the cold.Temporay warming spaces are still available, food provided,clothing donated, all that is missing is the roof and four walls…..offered and rejected.Literally fueling this fire is dangerous and is not buying YOUR way to heaven but the campers way to a further Hell

Kevin
Reply to  mcpissed
2 months ago

mcpissed, I get the idea your opinion is the ‘enablers’ are not really trying to help the ‘campers’. I do not disagree with you in general. However, winter camping can be very enjoyable. I, and many others, have done it. I am not at all interested in doing it for the entire winter when I have other options.

I do agree having addicts and/or mentally ill people living in tents with wood stoves is a significant risk. Good of you to suggest an option of housing the campers in personal homes. It would mean they are not all concentrated in one place which could be a benefit for any who want to get off drugs.

It is really unfortunate, in some ways, that the money and effort being used now wasn’t put toward maintaining the 2 closed homes. Those 2 homes, if run properly, could have housed most of the campers. The fact these homes were closed due to health and safety reasons is proof rules need to be in place and enforced. Will the campers like the rules at 310 Division?

mcpissed
Reply to  Kevin
2 months ago

blahh blahh blahh. blahh blahh blahh. Winter camping. blahh blahh blahh. Enablers. blahh blahh blah. This is a recipe for disaster and when that happens the enablers, winter camping enthusiasts, soccer moms, bloody tent salesmen will not be stepping up in line to take any blame. Cobourg will be front row center for that!!! My town does not deserve this!!!!

Laura Roberge
Reply to  mcpissed
2 months ago

Agreed

LittleTowner
Reply to  mcpissed
2 months ago

Also agreed. The potential for a serious accident is very concerning. People raising funds for this program are clearly caring people but the caring feels misplaced. There are so many dangers associated with winter camping, particularly for those who don’t have the experience, skills or wherewithal. This amount of money is months of rent. This amount of money is a lot of mental health support. Why not encourage these people to use the services available and then bolster them with these funds to really help these people get on their feet and out of a dangerous encampment. I want to know what the end goal is for those who are raising money for tents. Maybe with that knowledge, this will make more sense to all of us.

Cobourg taxpayer
2 months ago

How unfortunate that Jenni and her ilk make no mention of truly helping the very unfortunate people being used as pawns at the encampment. What exactly is Jenni’s end goal for the residents there, happily living in tents forever? Why no mention of true help such as learning how to function in a civil society by rehabilitation, detoxification, education such as learning basic life skills, counselling, employment or whatever is needed to function, because this life Jenni thinks she’s giving them isn’t it. Shame on Jenni for aiding and using the campers and not truly providing assistance.

Ken Strauss
2 months ago

Section 21(1)(c) of the Criminal Code of Canada provides that a person who abets a person in committing an offence is also a party to that particular offence. Abetting occurs when a person encourages, promotes, or instigates a crime to be committed. Trespassing is illegal. Why isn’t soliciting donations to aid trespassers illegal?

Last edited 2 months ago by Ken Strauss
Kevin
Reply to  Ken Strauss
2 months ago

Illegal drugs are illegal. Was anybody charged for organizing an injection site on public property? Maybe it is no longer a crime to use illegal drugs. However, the activities often associated with obtaining illegal drugs are still illegal. Stealing, weapon possession, prostitution are illegal. Does abetting the ‘campers’ who are addicts to trespass also abet in these other related crimes? The BC government passed legislation limiting illegal drug use in public. The courts have put this on hold for a few months. When it comes to illegal drug use there seems to be a very different understanding of the law.

Linda Mackenzie-Nicholas
2 months ago

Good job Jenni

Last edited 2 months ago by Linda Mackenzie-Nicholas
Cathy
Reply to  Linda Mackenzie-Nicholas
2 months ago

Until someone burns in a tent fire, then it’s too bad, so sad. Just a question for you Linda. We’re in a major recession. What’s the expectation then when the monies run out, you know, police fire ambulance, where do the monies come from then. I hear several thousand dollars was raised, it would be good promo to give those monies back to the county. Not to mention, unsafe neighbourhoods, people can’t sell their homes in the east end, RE agents are telling them. Not a good look. As well as TPSB dropping off folks from Whitby and Toronto, Joe tax payer is beyond pissed. It’s high time the enablers get off their asses and find solution(s) post haste. Just a reminder, the current trend isn’t working.

Sonya
Reply to  Linda Mackenzie-Nicholas
2 months ago

Good job Jenni? So transition house sits empty and Jenni is welcoming criminals into this encampment? People that are stealing and assaulting innocent victims? Where in anybody’s mind is this good job Jenni? Shame on you.

Cindi
Reply to  Linda Mackenzie-Nicholas
2 months ago

Really! These people refuse housing because of their specific needs, which are what? Let me guess, to use and sell illegal drugs in a flop house.
Why do these enablers support this bad behaviour at the expense of families and community, why do they put the wants and needs of crackheads above the health and welfare of families? Get a grip!

Beachwalker
Reply to  Cindi
2 months ago

The shelter system does not accommodate couples or pets. These are the other reasons people are in tents.

downtowner
Reply to  Beachwalker
2 months ago

When l submitted a question to the County as to the feasibility of 310 division as a low barrier shelter, the response l received included that they were including options for couples and pet owners and options in motels offer this at present

small town Ontario
Reply to  Beachwalker
2 months ago

https://www.northumberlandnews.com/news/council/modernized-24-7-emergency-sheltering-hub-working-vision-for-310-division-st-cobourg-property-purchased/article_4693b457-7a32-5a26-9591-76ce82622dd2.html

This above article was in the Northumberland News, Dec. 9th

Below is a selected paragraph from the Dec. 9th article.

“(As) part of a renewed sheltering system, there’s a need to move toward a more expanded, purpose-built shelter system — part of the review, it identified that we needed at least 25 shelter beds to be available,” said Smith. “We needed the facility to allow clients who identified barriers that the existing shelter system wasn’t working for them — so this could address pets, couples, or just general accessibility.”

IMO, (in my opinion) the encampment people are demanding the identified barriers be addressed before they will release the provincially owned property.

Yes, Northumberland County staff and council has now given in to the those demands, with the purchase of 310 Division St.

It is no wonder that many Cobourg residents are feeling angry.

Now, Northumberland County offers a survey to residents, NOT to address the concerns of some of those presenters at the County Committee meeting and to pause the plan, why because the survey reads..

” Your input will help positively shape the integration of this new hub within the broader community.”

Northumberland County Peterborough South, Conservative MP Lawrence remains silent on the issue as well as Conservative MPP Piccini.

Again, I say it is no wonder that many Cobourg residents are feeling angry.

Sonya
Reply to  Beachwalker
2 months ago

The new shelter on division street will accept couples and pets. The encampment and advocates have basically said that they will not be going there.

Jade
Reply to  Linda Mackenzie-Nicholas
2 months ago

Your just as bad as this Jenni chic. Open up your home to these misfits.. those who could care less about other residents. The shit and abuse they create is their own doing. The cash they get goes to drugs and are not even wanting to pay rent or to help themselves. Linda you just keep on enabling these idiots as Jenni is. I in the other hand will NEVER give an ounce of my time to them. They created their own shit show so let them carry on as is. They get no respect from me when they continue to steal and harm other peoples properties. They are entitled to nothing

downtowner
2 months ago

Well, it is a free choice we all can make whether to further this madness, or not.At the end of the day, l cannot see how the helping hand to a tent city is more tents.
Without a doubt this is a demonstration to see how far it can go before tragedy hits, just because the fire department passes the arrangements as “safe”, there is no guarantee that proper procedures will be followed. Tending a fire inside a tent with your wits about you is a challenge ..it takes little imagination to foresee what may develope with compromised people left to care for such situations. Let’s hope for the best but personally l cannot in good conscience contribute to a potential disaster.
When the removal of these trespassers does take place, as it eventually will,wouldn’t funds to start anew be more beneficial , in the meantime there are two avenues of relief for these folks in place…just observance of very few rules to access ,the consequences of their actions remain their own

Moxy
Reply to  downtowner
2 months ago

I have only lived in Cobourg for a couple of years. It has been educational to read all the comments on the tent city and the Go Fund Me to buy winter tents, wood and camping equipment. I am surprised that name calling by some contributors—“dirty pricks,” “chic” has been allowed. There is a lot of suffering among unhoused people, including those who have addiction and mental health problems. And I can also see the other side.

I can see the point of view of east end home owners unable to sell their properties because of the encampment. I can also see the problems for unhoused people in couples unable to stay together at Transition House. For such a couple being together may be one of the few sources of comfort in their very difficult lives. Why can’t that rule be changed?

I recently heard from a retired homeowner living in the east end that a high school kid was confronted by an unhoused person trying to steal his phone and wallet on school grounds. According to my source the teenage boy punched the person trying to steal his phone and wallet. How stressful and scary! That situation could have escalated further with someone being badly injured. Teenagers shouldn’t have to deal with that sort of thing. Why can’t a new law / by-law be created to prevent encampments from existing within 2 km of any school?

I cannot support providing wood and stoves to encampment users since there have been many accidents and explosions caused by heaters at Toronto encampments. As has been pointed out, people on drugs or with other issues would be at high risk of not being able to use such heaters or manage fired safely.

I will give money to Cobourg’s Salvation Army Food Bank to do what I can for anyone struggling to eat in the community. There are many people in that situation, not only the homeless.

I do think society has abandoned most homeless people and they deserve support. And if there were a government supported basic income available for people living at/below the poverty line and access to truly affordable housing we likely wouldn’t have as many issues caused by aggressive people from the encampment. A lot of money for police and emergency services could be saved.

Kevin
Reply to  Moxy
2 months ago

Moxy, welcome to Cobourg. You have been here long enough to know there is a problem but maybe not long enough to know what some people have had to deal with. Living near certain rooming houses has not been easy.

John Draper has rules and may remove posts with name calling. He can’t monitor the site 24 hours a day.

Maybe a basic income would solve some problems for some people. There are federal laws in the works. It will likely mean higher taxes. It could also be that certain people will work less and do more drugs. No program will work for everybody. There will always be a few we cannot help.

One thing people really need to keep in mind is some members of the encampment did have housing. That housing was destroyed, closed and is in the process of being sold. While they had housing they could have chosen to find work, but did not. Idle hands are the devil’s workshop. Instead of being responsible members of society when they had the opportunity they made bad choices. Will they start making good decisions if they are given a basic income and/or free housing?

downtowner
Reply to  Moxy
2 months ago

Further investigation of the campers would reveal many are living on Government pensions which include an allowance for housing…not being applied to an address at this time but being provided none the less. All of these folks are able, as is anyone , to apply for Government assisted housing. The process is overloaded and wait times are long when immediate shelter is needed. The folks willing to volunteer assistance might work toward the area of encouragement to begin the process and fill out the applications so level of need is prioritized and these folks can have every day spent in a tent a day closer to a day of their own dwelling.
I agree there needs to be more availability but the homeless [not those living with drug problems or mental health] also have to make themselves more visible and get connected to affordable housing, making an effort to register drives the demand and thus the funding, Guidance is possibly necessary for some of these people and their needs may be separate from those with mental health and addiction and in fairness should be recognized as such and an expectation to live in harmony all together with known problematic individuals is unreasonable

Dave
Reply to  downtowner
2 months ago

The Toronto Sun reported today the new johnny come lately housing funding provided recently by the Liberals will not be solving the problems due to their stance on illegal immigration which currently is occupying shelter space and or sleeping on the streets. It will be swallowed up in short order by the insurgence of people without means that are daily arriving now numbering in the thousands. We have a generous legal immigration system. This is just one more insane policy of the Federal government. Sad but true.

ben
Reply to  downtowner
2 months ago

All of these folks are able, as is anyone , to apply for Government assisted housing.”

Moxy do you know the wait list is over a 1000 people and takes ten years to get to the top of the list! They probably have applied as part of the County liaison work.

Kevin
Reply to  ben
2 months ago

Ben, yes the wait is long. It does depend on your situation. Some people are given priority, like parents with children. I know of a single woman who now has a place after almost a year living in her car and being put up in motels. It wasn’t a good situation but it was much less than 10 years. How much more in taxes would we have to pay to have places available for everybody in need?

downtowner
Reply to  ben
2 months ago

Yes, Ben the list is long for everyone but stepping stones leading to an improved existence.l hope you are correct that these people have all taken the necessary steps but recording your application accepts a spotlight on finances and commitment of money toward accomodations….one these folks by enlarge are not willing to do….demonstrated by their refusal of entering Transition House thus far……it costs a bit.

downtowner
Reply to  downtowner
2 months ago

Oh, by the way wait lists are common….10 yrs to get into Legion Village {roughly} according to availability and need priority…..also long term care with placement very possibly not close to family and friends can be many months….right of refusal exists here as well and perhaps not to ones advantage but costs continue for hospital stays on par with care facilities

Sonya
Reply to  downtowner
1 month ago

According to need and priority. My friend got into legion village in one month. She would of been homeless at the end of that month. So her need was great. By the way she loves it there.

downtowner
Reply to  Sonya
1 month ago

Wonderful,! there are always successes..the process is in place to identify priority of need.We will not know why these folks won’t commit to the solutions being offered until they exhaust all the soft excuses… It will come to the rules of living in County supplied housing l suspect

Sonya
Reply to  downtowner
1 month ago

I do know people that went to transition house and there are services there to help them find housing, rehab and mental health help. We have to remember that people that have addiction don’t pay their rent, bills and usually destroy the homes they live in. They are totally dysfunctional people. They usually get evicted and end up back out on the streets again and landlords are out a lot of money. Sometimes enough to cause bankruptcy.

downtowner
Reply to  Sonya
1 month ago

Agreed, the services in place can and do work….with the co-operation of the individual and dedication to effort on their own behalf

Kevin
Reply to  Sonya
1 month ago

If anybody has doubts about how homes are treated they could take a look at the closed property on Battell. It is for sale, you could view the property with an agent (serious buyers only). For community housing the landlord is the community, the county. When the home is damaged it is tax payers who pay for repairs. In some cases rent is paid directly to the landlord. The Canadian Mental Health Association (CMHA) has this arrangement with private landlords. There are also regular support visits and rules. Some people seem to want no rules at all.

small town Ontario
Reply to  Kevin
1 month ago

So are you saying that Battell is owned by Northumberland County? I understand that community housing is owned by NC and tax payers pay for repairs.
When a residence is privately owned, the landlords would pay for repairs or take the loss on the value of the property.
Why would CMHA have arrangements with private landlords?
Just trying to understand?

Kevin
Reply to  small town Ontario
1 month ago

Battell is privately owned. The landlord ran the home as a rooming house. I mention it as an example of what to expect by just giving housing to certain people.

Tenants are responsible for damages but collecting from them is often not worth trying. Yes, in this case, the owner is responsible for repairs but will likely sell the house as is.

The CMHA does rent privately owned apartments. Governments often contract to the private sector for lots of different services. Our town often hires a consulting firm and contracts road/sewer re-builds. By renting apartments in private buildings there is a low density of apartments occupied by people with mental health issues. With proper support these people are capable of living on their own and sometimes working to at least partially support themselves. Drug addicts cause different issues.

Rob
Reply to  Kevin
1 month ago

The fact that no interior pictures are posted on realtor.ca tells you everything you need to know about how these people chose to live and how they decided to treat property that they did not own. These two properties were not the first – several years ago there were a number of downtown apartments (above commercial spaces) that were destroyed by disrespectful and entitled addicts.

Until they are active participants in their own sobriety and mental health treatment, housing first does not work.