The Town’s web site is getting quite bad. There’s no acknowledgement by the Town but on Friday May 12, major sections of the web site were missing – both the Contact page and the News Centre were down. Instead, there were announcements on Facebook – that’s pathetic and missing major segments of Cobourg’s population. One such announcement was that “there will be a Special Closed session Council Meeting on Monday, May 15, at 1:00 pm for an Equity Diversity and Inclusion training session.” That’s perhaps in response to a motion by Adam Bureau in late April that the Council receive “Harm reduction” training. Apart from missing pages, other pages are long out of date – e.g. the Heritage page still talks about February’s Heritage week. Updating is generally poor to bad.
A year or two ago, in response to criticism, the Search function was given more prominence but it has not worked for some months.
It’s sad as well as really bad.
One good thing – some of the information that appears to be on the town’s web site (operated by esolutions group, owned by GHD) is in fact on separate web sites so it’s still working OK. Here is a list:
|Experience Cobourg||Concert Hall
Festivals and Events
|Cats Media – Port Hope|
|Escribe||Council Agendas and Minutes||Escribe – Markham. But now owned by OnBoard – U.S.|
|Engage Cobourg||Surveys||Granicus (owns Bang the Table)|
On a related subject, there’s no word on what happened about the RFQ for preparation of a Strategic Plan. That means there won’t be any guidance to Staff from Council on priorities (one priority I’d favour would be an upgrade on communication to the public). There were apparently no responses to the RFQ and no word on what’s planned to get this going.
It doesn’t help that the Mayor’s monthly newsletter is on hold because there is another as yet not issued newsletter.
It’s not just the web site that’s falling apart, it’s communication from the Town.
Meanwhile the communications “department” has done a great job with a new Spring Summer 2023 Leisure Guide. Looks great but is it the best thing they could be working on? Is this a higher priority than keeping the Town’s web site and newsletters up to date?
Councillors and staff do seem to respond to input from citizens – their contact info is provided below. (They don’t always answer emails but they do take notice).
If I get a response, I’ll post it here – but don’t hold your breath.
- Council endorses regular Town Hall meetings – includes motion re harm reduction training. 24 April 2023
- When will Cobourg’s Web site get fixed? – 29 April 2023
- Cobourg’s Administration – includes contact info for senior Cobourg Staff
- Cobourg Council – includes contact info for Councillors
By late Friday afternoon (May 12), the web site was working again although still way out of date on many pages. And surprise: Search is now working! But there has been no explanation from the Town. Still poor communication.
John Draper: Thank you very much for providing this space for dialogue. Thank you for keeping people, who do not utilize Facebook informed. You are very thorough and up to date on the goings on.
I am surprised the Town’s website is dyfunctional. For many years all you heard about was people taking various computer training that yes involved the creation of websites. It would seem there is a weath of people out there with the training and ability to correct this and with all the competition of similarly trained people the expense should be reasonable.
Just wait…Chatbots will be your only way to communicate with the Town of Cobourg…no human contact, less accountability and more frustration.
I watched all of this unfold at the Region of Durham, same with hiring DEI managers and Director. People were afraid to communicate for fear of offending someone. You had to watch how you smelled (scent free), how you looked at someone, how you talked to someone, no touching for fear of harassment allegations. I used to call it a “Sense-Free” work environment. All senses dulled.
Newbie (or whoever you are)
In some respects I agree with you. Honest, respectful but frank, open communication with each other is essential to real progress and success.
Are you not contradicting yourself by not using your real name?
It’s the one point on which I disagree with John Draper, and leads me to wonder what those who post under a falsename have to hide?
No contradictions here sir.
Yes, my opinions are very honest, very respectful and frank. And that is what they are: opinions and comments…my identity is that of a fellow human, a community member, a Cobourg citizen. That is all you need to know, thank you.
I have nothing to hide, and find that comment rather presumptuous, insulting and to be frank, a bit shuddersome.
Why would you need to know who I am? Would you like my gender, my sexual orientation, my address?
Good comment. Identity, sexual orientation, gender, address are not relevant to these discussions. Those that raise these as points of contention usually do so because they have no counter argument to the content presented.
If you can’t attack the message (content), attack the messenger.
Bryan I am surprised that you support the use of aliases. To your credit you do not use one. I would say that authenticity has a lot to do with the use of pseudonyms. Personally I am not afraid to use my name and as a result tend to disregard the POVs from those who them!
Well Ben that is unfortunate and not very ”inclusive” to dismiss others opinions—because you are personally not afraid to use your name. Rather narrow minded.
We are all avatars in this virtual world, regardless of assigning yourself a name.
Sue, George, Bruce and the name Ben could all be aliases.
What on earth does that have to do with the price of tea in China?
I’m interested in the content that the writer puts forth as a contribution to the discussion. For the most part, their identity is not relevant. My experience on this blog and others is that both real and fake names offer useful valid content. Similarly, both also offer BS
The very best format for debate is face-to-face. Watching the facial expression of others, the way they use their hands, hearing their tone of voice, all carry meaning. People become much more responsible for what they say. With social media it’s just the opposite.
It is a fact that individuals are less extreme, more respectful, more rational, in public than on social media where they, in effect, can hide and say anything outrageous which they most likely would not say in public.
You say that you would express yourself no differently if you used your real name, so why not use it? Using a false name is a conscious, deliberate act. Why?
I was working on my front porch earlier this evening when a fellow, who knows I don’t use pesticides on my lawn, told me his dog named Royce likes to eat my grass and is that OK?
We talked some more and finally introduced ourselves to eachother. That seemed to inspire trust, a confidence that we could speak more personally. He explained some medical problems he was having; I told him some I was having as I turned 86. It was a good conversation and I hope I see him and his dog again.
By what you say in your defence it seems my comments about your use of a false name has upset you. That was not what I intended and for that I apologize.
Thank you for the apology.
I agree face to face is a much healthier way to engage.
Social media is not “social”, in my opinion. And unfortunately, it is not a place I look to trust anyone.
Many people use a “handle” or “profile name” to be addressed by on social media. Many in this group do, for whatever reason…there are many.
There is cakes, breads, sailors, people who like to walk on the beach, a person from the east end, people with just a thought and taxpayers—who comment in this blog, some use only first names (real or not).
Have you asked everyone who comments or offers an opinion in this blog what their real name is?
I do not understand why this seems to bother you so much.
I have posted about this before. My name address and phone number are in the phone book. They are on my bank cheques along with my bank account number and my signature. That used to be the norm. Just why have we become so afraid? And of what? This breakdown of trust poses a real threat to a sense of community.
Here are two questions. Since this is behavior out of the ordinary it is on the proponent to justify
The questions are simple. Regarding your use of a false name here … Where else in your life do you use a false name? … Why do you use it here?
Give it up Keith, you sound like an old Wally Keller.
Listen to the message, not who sends it.
Like “Newbie,” and I presume others on this site who use a false name, you don’t consider the name used by others an important issue. I do because the use of a false name conjures up questions related to the users integrity.
Could it be that Newbie, Frenchy, Cotnbread and say Trousers, are all one person posting from different e-mail addresses?
I believe the best life for all is to be honest and truthful with each other, especially as we enter the Age of AI.
At least in the US, prior to carrying out yet another gun massacre, the perpetrator uses his real name in social media posts. Psychologists see this as a call for help.
And besides, what if your favourite daughter wanted to marry someone named say John Jones and, after an investigation by a private detective, it turned out to be “Newbie”?. Would you give your blessing to the proposed union?
Psychologists see using your real name on social media posts as a call for help? What then, should we think of people like Ken Straus and Keith Oliver on this blog?
If I had two or more daughters I would make sure that I wouldn’t have a “favourite”.
“Psychologists see using your real name on social media posts as a call for help? “
Tell us which one – Dr Phil.
You did not correctly reference my statement about the use of ones’ proper name on social media as being a cry for help.
My point was about the importance of context.
Whats’ far rmore important is that you answer my question! When and where else in your life do you use a false name? If nowhere else then why do you do so here?
Keith, your repeated questions are irrelevant to the subjects being discussed. Why not make a positive contribution to this blog instead of wasting the reader’s time? Either suggest a new idea or discuss the problems with another’s ideas.
Jeez Ken, as the self-appointed head of content I hope you ask the next person who slips off the relevent content path to stop it.
Lots of luck as most posts these days veer off into the negative aspects of certain members of our community and their opinions about the merits of the social ills of Cobourg pretty quickly.
Keith, I hope that you are not implying an imminent gun massacre by me!
As others have noted, one should judge postings by their content rather than any assumptions regarding the “integrity” of the poster.
As it happens, Frenchy is his real name, albeit a long used nick name.
Your reply also reveals an important factor in your reading of the comments on this blog. To wit, you apparently don’t seem able to assess a comment’s contribution to the discussion without knowing the writer’s name. Your assessment is coloured by whatever bias you attribute to the name, rather than assessing the comment’s contribution on its merits.
And now…don’t you think they should get a HUGE PAY RAISE?
A few other things are a “tad” behind as well. I sent an e-mail on January 24th to Mayor Cleveland and just received a reply on May 10th, but the reply didn’t have much to do with what I initially wrote.
Hasn’t he been away partying?
Uh oh. DIE training. Looks like Cobourg is going down a very dark path.
Concerned Cobourg Resident
I agree with you. Our left of centre Council members have drunk too much of the “Justin Juice”. Zero business acumen and all save the world on Cobourg’s dime thinking. Council focusing on DIE training deals with the least of Cobourg’s important challenges right now.Too bad Chrystia Freeland is not the PM to provide us and our left wing Council with intelligent middle ground common sense.
D-I-E …These are code words for reverse discrimination. I believe the Ontario Human Rights Tribunal indicated that white people could not claim discrimination.
Very much agree. DEI, or better yet DIE training…not good. Promoting, or rather mandating extreme far left, woke ideologies that are authoritative and censoring.
Wait til we hop on the 15 minute city band wagon, tied to the Bank of Canada digital dollar and your carbon footprint score. You think it’s bad now? Wait for it.
The Spring/Summer guide is great! I had no idea a lot of these activities were available and, being relatively new to Cobourg, this is really helpful – I love the list of playgrounds and kids’ activities. An idea would be to use this as a framework for the town website – the information could be kept up to date year round and residents would always know where to look.
And the cover photo is beautiful!
Are you sure John that the ‘Leisure Guide’ isn’t a contract job, always used to be!
The “Leisure Guide” is relatively new. There was always a “Visitors’ Guide”. The tone and audience for both are different.
The Visitors’ Guide was a contract job that was supported by advertising sales. It stopped being a contract job when selling advertising to cover the printing became too difficult. That happened 2016-17ish.
The Leisure Guide is published by the Town (they provide all the content) and printed by Metroland (my guess is they get a discount from the media company). Still, there would be considerable time devoted by one or two town staff members to create this marketing piece.
Taken from the report on Governance, #1 on the public engagement section:
“The first step in engaging the public shall be an open discussion and survey to residents on the current governance structure and what is being proposed for consideration in principle and try to enable participation/feedback forum not only from residents who consistently contribute and participate in local governance, but also engage those that participate rarely (once/twice a year), and those that haven’t participated at all.” (my emphasis)
Anybody seen any evidence of this yet – obviously a communications dept. job!
I think an Independent bunch of Volunteers ( Not Cherry picked by the Town ) from the private sector of Development and Building, Small Business , Industry and Investors into our Community should conduct and be surveyed to get some real input and uncensored comments .
From what I gather Communication is non existent and No one from any department inCluding Council ever answer the phones or takes calls not even the Cel phones we provide them with
so they might work from where ever .. With out Prompt responses and communication with Fallow up this Town has ground to a HAULT and holidays are just about to begin
Engage is only as good as the people analyzing the comments and response to achieve
a goal ?????
Check Theresa Rickerby’s post on FB. She’s clearly thrilled by the DIE strategy and “healing and saving people’s lives”.
The town website and other forms of communication have gone from bad to worse. How is the okay? I forget what all the new managers were hired for but none for communication?
Why would they need any more people they have two already!
Ben, perhaps they need more staff to supervise the consultants.
As the prime proponent for an illegal safe injection site, anything that Ms. Rickerby likes is problematic! I wonder how her activism for druggies has affected her All Creatures pet business in our downtown.
I’m fully supporting her on this matter. Denying there is a problem only makes it worse. We need solutions. When I was a 20 year old kid fifty plus years ago in Cobourg it was meth-amphetamines that were destroying kids’ lives. Now it’s fentanyl. Heroin has been in the background all along and people are mixing it with cocaine now.
Deborah, what is your solution since “safe” injection sites don’t solve the problem? They merely enable a few addicts to live a little longer plus, sadly, may convince some gullible youths that drugs are safe to try. Do we really want to duplicate the mistakes of Vancouver and Peterborough in Cobourg?
Safe injection site didn’t work because here in Cobourg they weren’t given a chance to work. Mass-hystaria instead of a cool-headed debate did its’ dirty work.
As a small tightly knit community we failed to do what we are most capable of doing, and that is to provide an example of what could be done to help those in serious need.
Shame on us!
Keith, a “safe” injection site didn’t work in Cobourg because it is impossible to safely consume highly addictive drugs. Safe injection sites don’t work anywhere. As a small, tightly knit, community we don’t need addicts from Peterborough working to create more addicts under the guise of helping.
Thanks for providing yet another example of the mass-hystaria I’m talking about.
Cobourg in its hayday (1840-1910) was the urban centre of a large rural community, was an Inovator, produced real leaders, was a major centre for education, justice, trade, etc. We have a history to love up to but according to you haven’t the guts to do so.
Keith, I’d be delighted for Cobourg to return to its heyday — prosperous downtown, grand houses, fine dining, the best hotel between Toronto and Montreal, business leaders and Enrico Caruso performing at a local party. However, I don’t think that building a shanty town, vagrants sleeping in doorways and building “safe” injection sites for illegal drugs are the path to restoring our past glory. Do you?
It seems that your idea of glory is all about wealth while mine is about a just society; about the Christian principle of caring for eachother. I am not a religious person but I do believe in Christian morality. Try some. It might help quell your inherent anger.
The “safe” injection site did not work because it was illegal…and reasons Ken states below.
Injection sites were legal if located on private private property. Police Chief went to great lengths to explain limits law enforcement faced.
The TweakEasy site is Unsanctioned on public property, where they have been setting up for the past what…5 wks now. I was at the CPS meeting and have read all of the politicians responses. Thank you.
I have never said, nor do I believe, that “safe injection sites” are a solution for drug dependency. What many of our residents are up against is a lack of opportunity for decent, well paid jobs that can pay their rent and feed their kids. It all gets back to that – lack of opportunity. When there is no hope, that’s when drug dependency starts.
Deborah, there are many opportunities. There are help wanted signs at almost every local business. In many cases the pay is not wonderful — perhaps $20/hour for unskilled work but significantly more for skilled jobs. However, even the unskilled rate is over $80,000 per year for a couple. The time of a earning enough on a single paycheque to feed, house and clothe a family is long past.
Minimum wage is not quite fifteen an hour. And that isn’t the same fifteen us oldies remember. When I started working for the Unemployment Insurance Commission in 1970 I thought my hourly rate of $3.20 was fabulous.
Deborah – the current minimum wage for Ontario is $15.50 and hour, $620 per week on a 40 hour week and most places are starting at a higher than minimum rate for unskilled labour in many of the factory jobs I have seen recently advertised. Additionally it is slated to rise to $16.55 an hour as of October 1. I recall Provincial taxes were removed from minimum wage jobs so the per cent of take home pay is better with only Federal tax applicable.
Further to Dave’s comment: Full time work at minimum wage ($15.50/hour) is about $65,000 per year for two workers. For comparison StatsCan says the median household income in Cobourg is $64,328. That is, two minimum wage workers would be at about the middle of households in Cobourg.
When I was growing up, in the 1950s and 60s it was common for a mother to stay at home, raise her children, interact with neighbours and create a neighbourhood community.
Now, as you point out, two have to work to earn a family income of only $65,000 a year, a bare minimum, with probably $17,000 to $20,000 going to rent, and lord knows how much going to child care.
This is tragic, this is sick! How did we get here and how can you justify this?
No wonder so many young people feel disillusioned about their future.
Keith, if young people feel disillusioned about their future perhaps it is a problem of communication. Comparing life in the 50s/60s with today is something that should be communicated to everybody. It was possible then for women to stay home and take care of their family. Now women are told a ‘career’ is more important. It is good to have the option but there are consequences. Back then people had smaller houses with one phone. Every family member having a cell phone and their own TV costs. It is, in part, a result of capitalism/advertising telling us what we need. ‘Baby bonus’ pays out much more than it did in the 60s. This helps women get jobs. But it also means people are expecting bigger houses, more and bigger TVs, etc. Are we, as a society, better off now? Most of us live in relative luxury but we are constantly told we ‘need’ more. If we communicated to young people that it is possible for a family to live very well for $65,000 (plus available assistance like ‘baby bonus’), and teach them how to manage their money, then maybe they would not be so disillusioned. It is not only the town website that is failing, it is the entire system of government and big business telling us how to live our lives. Wasn’t the great 2008 recession caused partly by mortgage issues related to people buying houses they could not afford? If those same people were satisfied with smaller homes, more homes could be built and prices could be lower. I think communication plays a big part in expectations.
Keith, our priorities and our expectations have changed from the 1950s. They must be funded. Consider that very few enjoyed a Florida/ Mexico/ Caribbean Winter vacation in 1950. Very few traveled “back home” each year to India or Europe. No $1000 cell phones with $100 a month data plans. No big screen TVs and streaming services. We ate local apples instead of exotic imported fresh fruit. Wives cooked instead of using Door Dash. We fixed our own cars. No nail salons. We didn’t spend hundreds on concerts or hockey games or clubbing or dining out. With only 14 million Canadians ample land was available cheaply. Only the brightest went to university; high school was sufficient for most jobs. We didn’t have carbon taxes to fight imaginary problems. Managers didn’t waste time on DIE training. And…
All of these new “essentials” are expensive and many reduce our productivity. Even with two working they push families into debt from which they’ll never recover.
Well said Ken and Kevin. It is so refreshing to hear like minded people share. Born in the late seventies, I am very concerned that much of “how we used to live” is being lost on part of my generation and definitely many of the following 2 generations.
So quit electing activists instead of managers.
The first step in giving those in need a path back to the kind of normal life most of us lead, is stable housing and, in many cases, counciling. A job comes next.
How can you hold down a job if you don’t have a place to wash up everyday; have a clean set of cloths to wear everyday; an alarm clock by the side of your bed to get you up and going every day; a bank account to help manage your money everyday; a place to store and prepare your food everyday; support to help you transition from bad habits to good habits everyday?
Simplistic views like “just get a job!” only create more bias, more confusion, and make it even more difficult for our community to give a hand-up to our fellow citizens who are in need.
Keith, do you seriously think that simplistic proposals such as an illegal “safe” injection site or a shanty town will help with any of the issues that you mentioned?
You are very idealistic. We do not live in utopia. Unfortunately, the pendelum is swinging to the Right this time. The far right. Why? Because the Left completely shot themselves in the feet by telling ordinary families, trying to get on with their lives, to enable the drug addict. Understand the addict. Let the addict carry 2.5 g of fentanyl, pop a tent and get high. But don’t you even try to crack open a Bud on the beach.
Heck, don’t even try to ask the the addict to pick up their needles or their garbage. Mustn’t infridge on ‘their’ rights.
And now, thanks to the Liberals, we’ll get Pierre Poilievre. Just great.
An idealist Kathleen?, one who only wants to see everyone treated fairly, experience a basic standard of living?, encourage a community to take on that responsibility?
I’m one of the most realistic people you will ever meet! One lesson I’ve learned is that if you don’t act quickly and efficiently to solve a problem it will cost you many times more to do so in the future.
And by the way, it probably will be close, but I believe that Canadians will stick to “the middle of the road” primarily because of extremists like Pierre Poilievre, MP Micheal Cooper (who began working with PP as a team trying to disrupt committee hearings several years ago), Maxime Bernier and his Peopl’s Party, and Primiers Danielle Smith and her predecessor Jason Kenney.
In Canada at least, extremists always lay the ground work for their own defeat.
A great many people who are homeless in our town are so because of drug related issues, some mental health (which are often induced by hard drug use).
Those in need, must be drug free, completely abstain. A person cannot understand their underlying reasons for drug use, or embark on counseling services without a clear mind.
With a clear mind, free of drugs, you are better able to help your self or seek out the MANY services already out there.
Do we want a society completely dependent on the government? The first step is to get clean, take responsibility and stop playing the Victim card.
Victimhood is revered sooo much nowadays, hence DEI managers, flags and months of the year dedicated to victims…creating silos and censoring common sense conversations.
You make the perfect argument in favour of safe injection sites and the access to counciling they offer users.
I think you miss the point. They need to be drug free—not enabled. With proper medical staff. Very few people use the site and most are from out of area. Counselling services have long been established in Cobourg, 4cast addiction counselling, for one…and free of charge!
Do you actually know any drug addicts? I have known a few (some are dead now). Nobody I knew from my younger days at school, lacked an opportunity. Rather, they were spoiled brats who blamed everything bad that happened to them on somebody else.
Now, before you all come down on me, I’m not saying that ALL drug addicts are privledged. But don’t kid yourself — a lot were privledged. They may have had a mental disorder, addictive nature that led them to their problem but not all of them lacked an opportunity.
100 % agree
Deborah, kindly explain how you can even support giving addicts more drugs? It’s not working, and more people are dying, EMS are incredibly busy trying to save these people’s lives. Treatment over enabling. We don’t need another Vancouver.
Nobody is giving free drugs to anyone, the drugs the addicts have, come from the usual illegal suppliers, and probably contaminated with toxic materials designed to ‘cut’ the dose.
All the harm reduction people are saying is that when drugs are taken they should be used under supervision just in case the drugs produce a reaction.
Well Ben, with xylazine in Peterborough now, and more than likely in cobourg now, or coming soon, narcan is of no help. The test strips aren’t in Canada. So, these pop up tents are of no help. The advocates are woefully unprepared for what’s coming. Watch where you step at the park and the beach, uncapped needles have been found.
“just in case the drugs produce a reaction”
All drugs produce a reaction. One reaction is stoned. Every problem and/or issue dissolves instantly into euphoria. It’s the best feeling many have ever had in their lives. Certainly, better than living with broken dysfunctional parents. It builds immunity to the chronic scorn from the larger community. Get them when they are young. Require every 18+ to serve the community by law. In the 60s, there was the summer militia, (voluntary). But, a law requiring at least one year service to society.
This will be the last posting I will make on this blog. I am disgusted by Mr. Draper’s condescension. Anyway, my opinions have no value to anyone here. There are other blogs that are kinder. Good-bye.
I value your opinion here.
John Draper is astute at assessing veiled insults and muffled disrespect from everyone.
Another example of community service that benefits both those who give and those who receive is CUSO or Canadian University Students Overseas. In Cobourg there’s SONG or Sounds Of a New Generation which involves youngsters in music performances, both vocal and instramental to set them on a new course. The Greenwood Coalition uses art.
So many ways to give people in need a hand-up. Needs leadership instead of the cynicism so often expressed here.
The drugs do create reactions.
I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again. For personal reasons Theresa Rockerby did not serve a full term on Council. During her brief time she proved herself an excellent Councillor.
Once again you’ve shown your bias against those consumed by their personal problems. Ms Rickerbys’ sympathy with them, some of whom you call “druggies”, is commendable. She along with the Sleeping Cabin people were willing to try something, anything, while all the rest of us failed miserably to do anything.
In the end all of us will pay a price which will be much higher than what it would have cost to help those in need early on.
Keith, how is Ms. Rickerby’s work years ago as a Councillor relevant to Cobourg’s current drug problem?
In my opinion any advocacy for building a shanty town or for providing sites for the “safe” consumption of illegal drugs is completely unacceptable. Consider the results of such ideas in Vancouver, in Peterborough, in Belleville, in Toronto, in Cambridge and in dozens of other large and small towns.
Propose something that might work rather than something that has failed everywhere!
Why should “the rest of us” be shamed into doing nothing? Many others do act, difference being—they may not virtuously boast. Churches, foodbanks, shelters, individuals and so on.
As far as Mother Theresa goes she has partaken in extremely racist remarks toward the good people of Cobourg. Calling us the Kobourg Ku Klux **** via public social media posts. This is deplorable and frightening. Her affiliation with an extremely radical group like TweakEasy and Ms. McLean is justifiably a worry, especially when they have the ear of certain councillors.
Commendable? I think not.
And the term “druggies” is correct…even if it has been replaced in the dictionary, like thousands of other words in the last few years. I liken it to George Orwell’s “Newspeak”.
Lets not sugarcoat or change what is what. Hard Drugs and using them SHOULD be stigmatized and not Normalized.
So DIE (Diversity Inclusion,, Equity) training is in a closed session? What is the justification for a closed session?
Knowing who is speaking at this training session would also be interesting.
So call them and ask.
Doesn’t that come back around to John’s point? Having to call and ask for this information is a tedious time waste. Clear, consistent communication strategy would have that information as part of the press release and/or media post.