Water Park may not happen

Because of a motion put by Deputy Mayor Suzanne Séguin, the installation of a Water Park on Cobourg’s Beach was raised at Monday’s Committee of the Whole meeting.  Although Council agreed last year to approve the idea, installation did not happen last year and no contract has yet been signed.  Jason Pulchinski, President of ATL (At the Lake), the distributor of the equipment, made a presentation to Council and triggered a good debate on the subject.  He explained that last year they had tried to partner with the YMCA to provide lifeguards but that did not work out.  They did manage to hire 5 but they needed 10 so that 4 could be on duty at all times.  It was not clear until May that the YMCA partnership was not going to happen and by then it was too late to recruit the number needed.

Jason Pulchinski
Jason Pulchinski

Jason answered many questions about safety and liability and said that he had a good relationship with staff – that is, Dean Hustwick (Director of Community Services) and Teresa Behan (Deputy Director of Community Services).  He said that the planned contract would be zero cost to the Town (see links below) with a big tourism benefit including Downtown and overnight stays.

During the debate, there were a number of points made – all councillors asked at least one question:

  1. All participants would wear a lifejacket – unlike regular beachgoers.  Brian Darling pointed out that the Town does not concern itself with the liability of the beach and only had lifeguards from 10:00am to about 5:30pm
  2. The Operator has $10,000,000 liability insurance coverage. The same operator currently operates a Water Park in Muskoka.
  3. The daily cost of $35 is comparable to other activities like canoeing, skiing, Canada’s Wonderland.
  4. The Park would be expected to operate for only about two months in summer during which it would provide “good clean family fun”.
  5. The park occupies about 10% of the beach.
  6. Although it has not operated previously in a large lake like Lake Ontario, it will take special precautions against strong winds and large waves.
  7. A report of a child injured in a similar park in Barrie was not related to equipment.  A boy had held his brother under water.
  8. ATL has not yet partnered with local entities.
  9. Suzanne Séguin questioned the business case – at $35 per user/day, 132 users per day would be required.  Jason said that based on their experience, this is fairly realistic.
  10. In response to a question from Adam Bureau, Jason said that ATL had so far spent $7,500 to $10,000 on hiring and uniforms
  11. Suzanne said she was concerned that the money spent by users was money that did not go to the Town but instead went to the Water Park.  Jason responded that the Town could always buy the equipment themselves although they may not want to take on the risk.  Equipment has a life of about 5 years.
  12. Despite an ad in Muskoka saying that lifeguards would be required to sell passes (and that would be a disincentive to take the job), Jason said that this would not be the case in Cobourg.
  13. When asked if ATL had done an impact study, Jason said that he assumed the Town knew what to expect.  Brian Darling supported that and said that the Park would have less impact than other events.
  14. Adam Bureau asked what would be on the beach – it would be a 10′ x 10′ tent to house lifejackets.
  15. Emily Chorley asked “Do we really want an ‘amusement park’ on our waterfront”.  Suzanne Séguin said that it was not part of the vision for the waterfront.

In the end, Council asked staff to report back by February 19 which should be soon enough for the contractor if there is a decision to proceed.  Dean Hustwick wanted to know what exactly was wanted in the report since he had already reported extensively on the subject. Suzanne referred to the motion (asking for “financial implications, safety concerns and legal impacts”) plus she pointed out that Councillors had not seen the RFP nor the proposed agreement.   She also asked about any special requirements for use on Lake Ontario.

The motion carried – so there will be a report and presumably a decision on February 19 which is a Committee of the Whole meeting date.


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6 February 2019 9:50 am

Sign us up for the waterpark.
New council is capable of resolving any issues quickly in order to have it up and running this
summer. No more stalling. Maybe, it time for the Mayor to show some leadership.

Fact Checker
Reply to  marc
6 February 2019 10:37 am

Marc, It is up to ATL to hire the required number of lifeguards. They failed to do this last year and unless they are able to do so this year there is no way for the Waterpark to be operational. This is ATL’s issue to resolve, not the Town’s.

Lighten Up
5 February 2019 9:07 am

Our Family wants a Waterpark on Cobourg Beach.
Negative Spin like…..”the numbers dont add up”, ” Not enough life guards” “Visitors wont spend any money
downtown” are meant to undermine this project. Susan Sequin has been negative on this subject since Day One.. Since when is it a Sin to make a profit on providing a good project to the Community.
It is hoped a more positive tone will be forthcoming from other Councillors.

Reply to  Lighten Up
5 February 2019 9:30 am

Profit is not a sin! However, changing the character of our beach without public consultation and approval should be considered a crime. We spent over $100K to determine what Cobourg residents wanted and a waterpark was never mentioned.

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Dubious
5 February 2019 1:59 pm

Just because a waterpark was not mentioned, means nothing. There were all kinds of unimaginable things not mentioned in the waterfront plan, perhaps because they were never suggested at a moment of time, or because they have no creativity to imagine such things as innovation, ingenuity, etc. Cars were never mentioned at one time, nor were airplanes, etc. Not even in holy texts, let alone a politico plan. “…changing the character of our beach…” Oh posh to this snobbishness. In my lifetime the beach has hosted a dance pavilion where many of Cobourg’s baby boomers partied on Saturday Night, rocking rolling past midnight, summer nights when a girl or two was thrown into the lake during break, dancing up a storm in wet jeans, and the beach once hosted 6 or 8 trampolines for a few years; then there was the colourful miniature golf course business on the beach. These things changed the character of the beach at the time. Families in Cobourg were grateful that there was something for children/teens to frolic and play on. For as long as I can remember, Cobourg has never turned a snobbish nose to the idea of monetizing our beachfront, specifically Victoria Park Beach. The West Beach is a mere 5 minute walk away. As far as the eye can see, naturalness, except perhaps when a laker balances by on the horizon. The harbour is largely grey. The waterpark would occupy 10 percent or less of the Victoria Beach blandscape, leaving a whopping 90 percent for the grumps, gripes and groaners during its 2 month existence, 1/6th of a year, horrors. Most interesting is that Cobourg stood to earn money without any risk. That $$$ could have gone to alleviating emerg room wait times, or paying down the CCC dept, or financing the… Read more »

2 February 2019 2:59 pm

Hi Jason, This is Ted from TorontoAdventures.ca Many years ago we went through the same process with the City of Toronto. it was a very difficult time. We now have been providing kayaking, canoeing and SUP services for many years enabling over 10,000 participants a year to enjoy Toronto’s beaches. The process to get Government approval is very difficult since they do not like nor understand private business and that private business is the only way to cost effectively run such a operation, growing the local economy and providing needed youth jobs.

2 February 2019 12:39 pm

Waterpark is great idea. Its for Families and about Fun for Kids. Thats all ! Surely NEW Council will not SMOTHER this project with phoney safety issues and financial concerns.
While were at it, lets get on with repairing East Pier THIS SPRING !

manfred s
Reply to  mike
2 February 2019 7:41 pm

Mike, those repairs are far more extensive than a fix-up can deliver. With ongoing planning for the harbour/waterfront area, the east pier would be included and any repairs now wouldn’t make much sense considering the duplicated expense. Paying twice for the same thing for a short term fix seems irresponsible, I’d think

Debby Fox
Reply to  mike
3 February 2019 12:45 am

Phony safety issues? Financial concerns? Why yes, those are exactly the things that need to be considered by our new Council. Private business doesn’t care about Cobourg; they only care about their own profit/loss statements. At the end of two months, they walk away. What happens at our beachfront is of intense interest to Cobourg residents and I would assume Cobourg Town Council. Good on you, Deputy Mayor Suzanne Seguin, for asking the tough questions and requiring a considered response. If ATL hasn’t bothered with an impact study but rather says “Cobourg knows what to expect”, it means they haven’t done their due diligence. Is that who we want to be in business with?

Jayne Finn
30 January 2019 4:12 pm

With the global focus on plastic pollution and single use plastics I think a floating plastic park is backward thinking. It’s inflatable, so one tear and it’s likely headed to the landfill. Young folks need good activities…how about more canoes, kayaks, SUPs, paddle boats which have yearslong shelf life and provide some real physical activities. No to floating plastic it’s not sustainable!

Jim Thomas
Reply to  Jayne Finn
5 February 2019 3:23 am

“Stand up paddle boarding (SUP) is the fastest growing sport in the world…” for those, like me, who didn’t know until know.

Walter L. Luedtke
30 January 2019 9:46 am

Cobourg has two assets that distinguish it from most other Ontario small towns – a harbour and a beach downtown.
Reading the posts from the usual suspects, one has to conclude that the beach and the harbour are a liability and should probably be turned into nature preserves.
Big Boaters and beach goers cause nothing but trouble.
If kids want to swim, they can dive off of a dock at the cottage like regular folks.
And sailing is sort of elitist too. Why can’t the boaters just be happy with an aluminum boat with a good Evinrude outboard motor?

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Walter L. Luedtke
30 January 2019 10:16 am

“Cobourg has two assets that distinguish it from most other Ontario small towns – a harbour and a beach downtown.”

More than that. It has two kinds of beaches downtown, one sandy, one natural, and another plus is that the natural beach also hosts a meadow south of the Cobourg Ecology Garden. A meadow, downtown. All along the way, there are benches, better described as ‘departure lounges’ to the Imagine Nation.

And then there is Cobourg’s premier party park/beach, gaudy rib trucks, ferris wheels, carny food, beer tents, flea market, art displays, rock concerts, bagpipe wails, our teens networking with visitor teens, children frolicking and screaming their lungs out, and bright colours everywhere. It has always been thus since I was a child, and all the others with the great good fortune to have come of age in this town.

It’s a community that comes alive, springs forth, like children running out of the house with the screen door slamming behind them. There have been miniature golf courses on the beach, several trampolines as a business, so why not a primary coloured waterpark?

It is unfair to Cobourg’s youth, and to families with children, if the demographic of retirees turn Cobourg into a predominantly retirement town. YAWN!!!

If peace and quiet is the desire, then why move into the downtown of a community? Suburbs are quiet and peaceful, so are villages, and near rural.


Walter L. Luedtke
Reply to  Wally Keeler
30 January 2019 11:20 am

Kids having fun? No Way!
Cobourg is a retirement community.

Walter L. Luedtke
Reply to  Walter L. Luedtke
30 January 2019 4:16 pm

and how about this one in Quebec?
indoor winter fun for the whole family!comment image

Reply to  Walter L. Luedtke
30 January 2019 8:16 pm

Mr. Luedekte. Respectively, in my opinion you have missed the point. There is a significant safety difference between an indoor pool facility with a water slide contained in a small area, and an inflated water park in open Lake Ontario.

Debby Fox
Reply to  Wally Keeler
3 February 2019 12:04 am

This past summer (2018) saw the beach reduced to easily half of its usual size by weekend volleyball tournaments. The nets are set up on Friday night (one weekend I counted 35 separate volleyball nets), the families and players start to arrive early on Saturday morning; they stake out their turf on the sand or on the grass in Victoria Park for the entire day, and again on Sunday. There is little room for other beachgoers, either on the sand or in Victoria Park. They bring their picnic baskets and coolers, their umbrellas and small tents, a fully contained event that doesn’t show a financial gain for Cobourg or fair use of our town’s best summer resources for Cobourg residents and visitors. They don’t shop in our stores, they don’t eat in our restaurants, they don’t even purchase their food from the cabanas or food carts. What sort of sense does that make? In answer to the comment above that Cobourg is for families and not a retirement town, I’ll ask you to look at the condos and townhomes that are connected to the marina area and Victoria Park. Those owners pay pretty significant property taxes along with people who dock their boats at the marina from spring until fall. Don’t assume that property taxes should be invested so people can come here for a day trip and never spend a penny in our town. Every town or city is a blend of singles, young families and mature adults; there has to be consideration shown for each group. It is never only for one taxpaying group and not for another. Visitors from outside of Cobourg should be required to spend something to use our prime resources or what’s the point of tourism? It ends up costing the town without gaining… Read more »

Reply to  Debby Fox
3 February 2019 10:32 am

I attend those volleyball tournament. I assure you that many of us do dine on King Street, and others do not. Businesses who pay the overhead to be there do so of their own volition. If the product is good they shouldn’t have any issues. They should be welcoming the increased foot traffic that a waterpark would bring to the beach.
I find it fairly ridiculous to REQUIRE tourists to financially contribute to businesses when visiting any city. Again, if a business is promoting itself properly and has a quality product then again there shouldn’t be an issue. It would appear that although some look forward to progress, they also fear change. I hope this waterpark happens I think it would be wonderful for the city of Coburg.

30 January 2019 8:44 am

The water park will be floating off the beach in all its primary colours even when the beach is vacant of kids and families. We will be looking at it on our early morning and late evening walks, overcast cool days…and that will definitely detract from the beauty of our town and our Great Lake.

30 January 2019 8:22 am

Why not give it a try for one summer and see how it goes?

30 January 2019 7:01 am

do we really believe that any of those water park goers with children , wet, swim suites, beach attire
are really going to be shopping and dinning on King st .

Reply to  perplexed
30 January 2019 9:07 am

And why should they, the attempt to tie recreational opportunities to downtown restaurants is simplistic and unworkable.

Reply to  perplexed
30 January 2019 9:33 am

“do we really believe that any of those water park goers with children , wet, swim suites, beach attire are really going to be shopping and dinning on King st”

Do we really want them to?
If they are dining on King St., the restaurants are earning all the profits and paying a small portion back in property taxes. If we can keep them eating at the canteen, taco truck and weenie cart, the town is guaranteed at least $15,929.20 (was supposed to be $20,000.00) in rent or half of the profits (whichever is greater). I can only imagine that after the great weather, huge waterfront crowds and the Cobourg Beach Courtyard weekends that we made a killing on the 50/50 profit sharing plan last year.
Although… I haven’t been able to find those numbers anywhere yet. Maybe some of you research/sleuth types can help us out.

Small own lover
Reply to  Frenchy
30 January 2019 8:44 pm

Most of the restaurants on King Street pay very high rents. . Their landlord is responsible for the taxes. The restaurants on King Street employ staff. Cooks, wait staff, cleaners etc. Most of them live in Cobourg and all of them need to be paid. Business is slow during the winter so they need the tourist bucks too.

manfred s
Reply to  Frenchy
5 February 2019 11:57 am

50-50 “profit sharing” is quite different from 50-50 SALES sharing. The busier, the more staffing requirements, etc, etc. Busy does not always translate to more profitable. “Killing” just might not be the best conclusion to be drawn.

Reply to  perplexed
31 January 2019 2:58 am

Agreed… and I doubt the visitors to the beach from the GTA will spend $35 (per child?) or shop on King Street…. I live right downtown on the beach and I never see very many visiting people on King Street on summer weekends

30 January 2019 1:36 am

In my opinion, this type of Waterfront Playground is more appropriate for Lakefront Resort facilities where there’d be a high turnover of visitors & young families…..or perhaps within a larger city with a greater population, a younger demographic & a more expansive waterfront area. With Cobourg’s population, this would most likely be “visitor-dependent” to make it a viable money-maker, and it seems to me that more folks are expressing their annoyance with the number of visitors to Victoria Beach during the summers. And with so many bringing their own food & beverages, it can be perceived as showing a lack of concern/lack of interest in supporting local businesses. As I walk over to the Beach during the summers, I’ve observed that the nearby streets have been turned into one giant parking lot……so unattractive. But I can definitely see that for all who are enjoying our beautiful Cobourg beach during the summers, it’s obvious that kids & adults are already experiencing a lot of fun, both on sand & in water……this type of apparatus would not be an enhancement, in my opinion. Questions….who would be responsible for controlling & monitoring the duration of time if a participant pays for a 1/2-day useage instead of a full-day, especially with many on it at any given time? What about security during the overnite hours?

Reply to  Catherine
30 January 2019 10:32 am

“But I can definitely see that for all who are enjoying our beautiful Cobourg beach during the summers, it’s obvious that kids & adults are already experiencing a lot of fun, both on sand & in water”

Well said Catherine.
We have a great beaches, a beautiful park and superb harbour. The features we now have attract a lot of visitors and will for years to come. Sure it needs some maintenance, tweaks and upgrades now and then (east pier), but we have to learn to like our waterfront.
If town staff feels the need to monetize anything, have them spend all that energy and creative thought on the CCC or our decaying downtown.

Debby Fox
Reply to  Catherine
3 February 2019 12:33 am

The town has to monetize our waterfront. It costs a lot of money to maintain, supervise, groom and police the entire area from the west beach to Victoria Park. You can look around on a Sunday night and see the overflowing garbage cans and the garbage that visitors didn’t bother to attempt to dispose of in the garbage cans provided, the cigarette butts littering the streets and walkways, the wear and tear on everything from the signage and railings to the washrooms and other public areas. Keeping the waterfront looking clean and inviting is expensive; the grass has to be cut, all areas must be swept and cleaned through the week, and extensively on the weekends, especially after there has been a big event. If food trucks, the canteen and other services reap financial rewards primarily for the owners of those private enterprises, how does the Town benefit financially from tourism? I live down in the marina area and watch families park their cars on Saturdays and Sundays. They bring wagons and carts with them to load their picnic baskets and coolers full of food and drinks they have prepared, along with their kids and their flotation devices, to walk over the beach. They spend the entire day there without spending a dime. On their way back to their cars, they often stop at the ‘reflecting pond’ (skating rink in the winter) to wade, get rid of the sand from their feet and bathings suits, and use the washrooms to change, leaving more for the town’s staff to clean. Who is paying for all of those tourists to use up our resources for FREE? There has to be a better way to monetize our waterfront.

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Debby Fox
3 February 2019 1:39 am

There has to be a better way to monetize our waterfront.”

Ok, Debbie Fox, tell us one or two better ways to monetize our waterfront.

Debby Fox
Reply to  Wally Keeler
7 February 2019 9:25 pm

Wally, there is no need to be confrontational. If you disagree, then click on the thumbs down icon. You have your opinion and I have mine, as is my right.

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Debby Fox
8 February 2019 6:30 am

Ok, I apologize for daring to ask you a simple question, even though I have the right to ask a question. If you don’t want to share any of your ideas to monetize, then that is your right. Btw, like you, I am a proponent of monetizing the waterfront, so there was no notion of confrontation.

Reply to  Debby Fox
7 February 2019 10:48 pm

If there were far fewer tourists there would be little need for Cobourg to monetize our waterfront.

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Dubious
8 February 2019 6:24 am

So how do you propose to reduce tourist visits in spite of Cobourg’s century-plus as a tourist town? I have a deep connection with born and raised Cobourgers and the majority don’t share the anti-tourist attitude that you espouse.

29 January 2019 9:48 pm

I tried to listen to the presentation from ATL and the Q & A that followed but the sound was so bad on the Cobourg web site I had to give up. Who’s in charge of the audio/video recording of these council meeting? Get them some help or let someone else try.

Reply to  Frenchy
30 January 2019 1:00 pm

I was able to watch the live feed from someone other than the town set up and despite turning the camera to the speaker the sound was far better than the Town production. The two staff gentlemen on the back row one on either side of the aisle need to speak up especially the person on stage left both their microphones seemed to interfere with the phone feed. All in all, I prefer this feed over the Town’s which I find amateurish with its fixed camera angles and less than adequate sound system and cheap production.

Reply to  Gerald
30 January 2019 1:46 pm

Gerry, Thanks for helping us find this on ‘Facebook’! Much better sound quality on this venue!
Audio only had a ‘hum’ when the ‘mic’ that was used by the gentlemen, in front of the ‘press desk’, was on?

John Draper
Reply to  Ken
30 January 2019 2:04 pm

The Facebook Feed was created by the Town’s Communication Officer, Ashley Purdy, hand-holding a tablet to create the video. She is to be commended for providing a better quality feed once it was apparent that the regular one was not working properly. She is aware of the need to fix the regular video system with its poor sound.

29 January 2019 8:05 pm

Those making the most profit will be the operators of the water park. $35 per person is extremely high and as a result it is most likely less will accrue to the local stores/shops. I have seen one water park like this at the Sandbanks and a family member has tried one in the Dearhurst area. The conclusion was they are/were not that interesting, exhausting after 20 minutes due to their nature, quite often kids were out of the site-line of the life guards, too expensive, and not a lot of fun, with safety concerns for younger kids. In my view this type of venture is not an advantage to Cobourg and detracts from the quality and safety of the beach as the two noted were on inland lake/areas and not exposed to an open lake such as Lake Ontario.

Reply to  Rationale
29 January 2019 8:58 pm

The Waterfront Plan provides the vision for everything waterfront. Why was there nothing about a waterpark in the questionnaire? I don’t recall a mention of a waterpark at any of the public meetings. Does anyone actually want a waterpark? With luck, Old Sailor’s 50km winds will quickly destroy the proposed abomination.

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Dubious
8 February 2019 1:40 pm

“With luck, Old Sailor’s 50km winds will quickly destroy the proposed abomination.”

It’s an abomination because it would provide jobs for summer students to earn their college/university tuition.

It’s an abomination because it would generate income for Cobourg to pay its bills, eg east pier repair.

This anti-tourist attitude goes against the grain of Cobourg’s long and valuable history as a tourist town. It is the attitude of effete snobs who want to live in a gated community — keep them abominable outsiders out of our town. Thankfully, such a nightmare will not happen.

Let the tourists arrive. Let our young people, students, meet and mix with other young people from outside Cobourg, particularly from the GTA. It gives our young people an opportunity to network with new friends and help gain a foothold perhaps sharing a flat for university. It worked well when I was a student here, and same for other young people, and I dare say, it goes on today. You’d have to grow up in Cobourg to know about this phenom.

manfred s
Reply to  Wally Keeler
8 February 2019 3:21 pm

Wally, I think “that Cobourg” has slowly morphed into a place now dominated by attitudes that were born of other places less affable. The irony may be that it was/is that affable nature of times past that actually attracted the attitudes we now see as more prevalent today. While we may pine for “that Cobourg”, we are now dealing with a different and irreversible character change and nuthin’s gonna change back. I sometimes wonder how many of our policy makers and their advisors are native Cobourgians and how that affects the direction the town plots for the future. For myself, there was a time when I could pretty well recognize just about anybody who was going down the street, even just by their walk, but now I’m lucky to just “recognize” only the odd one, never mind their gait. C’est la vie!

Wally Keeler
Reply to  manfred s
8 February 2019 7:39 pm

“…we are now dealing with a different and irreversible character change…”

I find your comment quite agreeable, but this is what I regard as hopeful; tourists from the GTA, especially immigrant and 1st generation Canadians. The secret is out among many cultures in south-central Ontario. There are many videos on YouTube of assorted GTAers visiting Cobourg. It’s a big deal for them. All of the videos were a bit of a love letter. One bunch of young people left Scarboro, drove into Cobourg Walmart and bought $247 worth of groceries for their weekend stay. Others made video of going up to the downtown and browsing. Summertime is when multicolourful people come to multicolourful Cobourg and they will continue to come here because it is so goood.

Furthermore, when young people in our time networked with visiting young people, it was not as rich with possibilities as it is today because of all the available cultural diversity now.

Resistance is futile and a waste of time. Entice them to spend spend spend.

manfred s
Reply to  Wally Keeler
8 February 2019 7:58 pm


Reply to  Rationale
30 January 2019 10:44 am

Good point. None of the reports have checked to see if kids actually like to use a waterpark. And for what age group is it supposedly suitable?
I agree with all the others that the Waterpark is not the kind of trash we want on lakefront.

ain't happening in MBY
Reply to  Flora
30 January 2019 1:07 pm

I agree with Flora and ALL THE OTHERS – lets also do away with water front festival, but not all of it just the midway (looks trashy and brings way too many kids down to the beach). Should probably ban dragon boats before that causes a problem. Sandcastles?! Give me break, what a bunch of trash those are. Beach volley – young people laughing and enjoying themselves completely ruins my Tuesday and Thursday evenings reading at the beach (I need quiet don’t you know). Should take a bull dozer to the splash pad and cover it with sod – little parentless ankle biters running around in an uncontrolled manner. Shut down the ice-cream shop and turn it into a pharmacy? Plants trees and create a serenity garden in the trailer park because I heard people listen to music in there and things might get out of hand (besides they probably bring coolers of food and don’t eat any downtown restaurants)….And of course that ridiculous nuisance The Frink, with those space-invaders skating in close proximate to our high-priced but over taxed condos – when I bought mine I was assured there would be no people around to aggravate me. While we are it ban road hockey and basketball nets b/c we all know that leads to property damage and noise complaints.

Roll up the boardwalk Cobourg, its 6:00 p.m. and boardwalks get destroyed in 50 km/hr. winds….

Reply to  ain't happening in MBY
30 January 2019 10:01 pm

MBY, you sound as silly as Walter.

ain't happening in MBY
Reply to  Frenchy
31 January 2019 9:36 am

ahh – just a little venting Frenchy…it can be exhausting listening to people who poo-poo every idea just because its new or different or because they can’t see a “benefit to the town.” Doing things that bring joy to people is a benefit – as intangible as that may be.

Debby Fox
Reply to  ain't happening in MBY
3 February 2019 12:36 am

There must be a financial benefit to providing a service because providing services is expensive. Money goes out from the town budget, money must come back in. To think otherwise is naive.

Reply to  Debby Fox
5 February 2019 10:02 am

I’ll have to disagree with you on this Debbie – it isn’t all purely Capitalistic. Where is the financial benefit to the lighting the park or lining King Street lights during the Christmas season. Most recreational facilities do not make money yet imagine Cobourg without Legion Park, Monks Cove, the CCC or the Fink. Here I thought we were the “feel good” town – feeling good isn’t simply about monetizing everything we do or every service having a clearly defined financial ROI. Sometimes things are literally done with the benefit being more intrinsic in nature that make people feel good about where they live or enhances the quality of life for current residents OR potentially attract new people as a result of the feeling the town gives them (but how do you measure that). Could be that I’m naïve…#unlikely.

Jim Thomas
Reply to  ain't happening in MBY
5 February 2019 3:39 am

b/c ? That means “because”, right?

Reply to  Rationale
2 February 2019 7:53 am

Hi folks… yep..biased a bit. I know the ATL owners. Many thoughtful points raised for sure. Business ideas come out of need-or there would be no point. ATL is a husband wife team with 4 children. Their love of water products like this comes out of seeing kids (and yes, adults too) enjoy the water. My own family of four have enjoyed years of it. While we want kids to be in nature, enjoying the breeze, the sun, the fresh air- this is preaching to the choir! Getting those otherwise-not-engaged families out is really the goal. This becomes a great conduit for connectin fun, fitness and the great outdoors. The commenter that has been to a couple – yep- its a workout! Exactly what kids in the summer need….give it a chance and see. I will have my own family of four on it in a heartbeat.

Reply to  Jojohaacke@gmail.com
2 February 2019 11:53 am

Getting those otherwise-not-engaged families out is really the goal.

That seems a questionable goal for someone who wants to be a successful entrepreneur.

Old Sailor
29 January 2019 6:07 pm

Perhaps those in favour of the water park can explain where the additional parking will be provided for the increase in daily beach and water park users. Providing additional parking for increased waterfront events is the Achilles heels of previous town planners.

Difficult to imagine the water park surviving in 50km winds from the south – which do not occur in the Muskoka Lakes. Is the net dollar benefit to Cobourg enough to justify more congestion by the waterfront? Is the net profit to the town guaranteed?

manfred s
Reply to  Old Sailor
31 January 2019 3:27 pm

“additional parking” perhaps one idea, as outlandish as it might seem at first glance, could be FREE public transit within the town limits. Currently the ridership revenue collected annually comes in the neighborhood of $160,000, (less than 14,000 per month) not a notable sum considering both the transit and town budgets on the whole. FREE transit might bring with it some minor increases in general expenditures but the extended potential savings in parking related expenditures plus some creative revenue tools other than fares could replace that loss of revenue while providing a number of huge benefits to ALL citizens of the town throughout the year on an ongoing basis. That could include a very notable impact on traffic in general all year and during many events, thus taking some pressure off the ever-present parking issue. I know, long-winded reaction to your “Providing additional parking for increased waterfront events” concern but worth a look.

Debby Fox
Reply to  manfred s
3 February 2019 12:20 am

Sure, why don’t we just give everything away for free? Who’s going to pay for it then? We’ve already got the majority of tourists coming to our beachfront without spending a dime in our town. Tourism is supposed to be more than an influx of people; it’s meant to create a stream of revenue, reliable and dependable revenue on many levels. Parking, restaurants, transportation, bike rentals, food trucks, retail outlets on King Street and beyond. Otherwise, all we’re doing is creating more garbage, more full garbage cans (for those who actually use them), more policing, more bylaw enforcement. More expenses, no more income. That is a recipe for disaster for Cobourg.

Reply to  Debby Fox
3 February 2019 9:38 am

Very well said!
Free parking stickers for residents and much higher parking fees for visitors (coupled with tows for overtime parking) would go far to remedy the current problems. And to think, the town spends money on advertising in order to have to spend more on garbage collection!

Reply to  Debby Fox
3 February 2019 10:34 am

Perhaps your businesses should re-think the marketing plan and the quality of their products.

manfred s
Reply to  Debby Fox
3 February 2019 11:37 am

who do you think is paying the lion’s share of the transit system now Debby? Fares cover less than a third of the cost of the service and ridership is less than stellar. Your tax dollars, both local and provincial, cover the shortfall, which, as I’ve said, is well over two thirds of the cost of transit now. The idea of FREE transit is a diamond in the rough. To replace the fare revenue just emulate Toronto or any other major city methods, namely sell all that advertising space in and on the buses, and on the bus shelters, instead of using them for non-revenue producing town announcements. Eliminate free parking, raise the rates, make transit the SMART and prudent choice, especially because it’s FREE, and make it more frequent. Who wouldn’t leave the car at home if you could get to any place in town every 15 minutes and for FREE! Sure, you might opt for a trundle buggy but what the heck. Less traffic congestion, more room for visitor traffic which would pay for all the additional higher-rate parking, no more bitching about not enough parking spaces in front of store doors, no climbing snow banks from your car to the sidewalk, no getting stuck behind delivery trucks, and on and on. Try just for a moment to get past your restrictivly narrow thinking and grasp a wider view to see beyond all that frustration. It’s amazing what lies beyond it. Btw, are any of your statements supportable by real data, and “Sure, why don’t we just give everything away for free?” is just non-sensical since I only suggested free transit.

Reply to  manfred s
4 February 2019 11:08 am

Speaking of traffic congestion, I’m challenging Nic B., Emily C., Aaron B. Adam B, Brain D. the DM and the M to fix that traffic flow disaster at Cobourg Colligate Institute and C.R Gummow. I dropped my child off this morning at CCI and it took more than 10 minutes to exit the parking lot and head west on King Street – it was only luck and kindness that allowed me to exit when I did. Luck, hope and kindness are not strategies. The previous Mayor failed to acknowledge this as an issue in any meaningful way. You can not consolidate 2 schools and increase population density without appropriately augmenting traffic flow and controls.

Someone is going to get killed.

manfred s
Reply to  Rob
4 February 2019 1:02 pm

just think how that would be impacted by FREE transit both am and pm ‘rush hours’

Reply to  manfred s
4 February 2019 3:18 pm

I’m all for free transit for specific parts of the population however not convinced it will do much to alleviate this issue.

Ken Strauss
Reply to  Rob
4 February 2019 4:28 pm

Many areas of Cobourg are far from a bus stop. There is no service to most of New Amherst. There is no service to East Village. I live more than 2km from the nearest bus stop. Providing a 15 minute wait service to everyone would cost at least twice as much as the current bus service.

Reply to  Ken Strauss
4 February 2019 10:01 pm

Maybe we should look at Uber, as Innisfil has done. Very positive results there.