Beach Re-opening and Beach Crowds

There were three delegations about the beach at Monday’s Committee of the Whole Council meeting – and later in the meeting Council decided how and when to re-open the beach. Adam White wanted more input from residents, and both Paul Pagnuelo and Brenda Quinn wanted a task force to deal with usage of Cobourg’s beaches by non-residents. And when it came to a decision on re-opening the beach, Council included a response to the often repeated request to look into how to manage the summer crowds usually experienced. Many residents have commented that we pay the taxes but visitors pay nothing and yet get to enjoy the beach. If nothing changed, the beach would reopen on September 1 but staff presented Council with four other options:

  • Extend Closure to October 17th
  • Keep beach closed only on weekends to October 17th
  • Extend closure only until after Labour Day and re-open September 8
  • Another option determined by council.

Both Paul and Brenda made some good points (see their complete presentations in links below) so let’s look at them first:

Paul Pagnuelo Presentation Summary

  • This bug still has no cure and the risks continue to outweigh the benefits.
  • Choose Option 1: Keep the beach closed to October 17th.
  • Free access to Victoria Beach by people who are non-residents of Cobourg is a long-standing irritant with a vast majority of Cobourg residents and businesses
  • Charging non-residents an access fee is neither a human right, social justice or racism issue.
  • My recommendation would be [abbreviated] to establish a Task Force to examine costs, benefits and disadvantages, determine tourist spending at merchants, compare practices of other Ontario municipalities with lake access and develop a parking model for handling beach traffic.

Brenda Quinn Presentation Summary

Currently retired, up to three years ago Brenda was a downtown Cobourg retailer and currently owns a commercial building in downtown Cobourg as well as a residence in Cobourg’s east end. This would appear to add weight to some of her comments.

  • The great influx of out-of-town visitors puts tremendous pressure on our Town’s resources by flooding to our downtown beach and Victoria Park areas during the summer months.
  • For the most part, these people have one destination in mind – the beach and/or Victoria Park. They bring their own food/supplies, set up, have picnics, sometimes illegally barbecue, and then in many cases, leave their garbage strewn around the park area. They also often park illegally.
  • Lifeguarding the Cobourg Beach is a huge cost ($194,805 budgeted in 2020) and because the town supplies lifeguards for their beach, then the Town could be held liable should something happen to someone that these lifeguards aren’t able to help …  that is a VERY scary scenario. Note that there are no lifeguards at beaches in Provincial Parks.
  • These out of town park and beach users do not shop downtown, they do not go to area restaurants – they don’t stay overnight in area hotels – they come – enjoy the beach/park – sometimes by the busload,  and then depart at the end of the day back to their homes in Durham, Clarington and Toronto, leaving the garbage remnants of their day behind.
  • I ask that the Town strike up a Task Force including local residents and downtown business and property owners, reporting to Councillor Emily Chorley in her role as Coordinator of Parks and Recreation Services.  …  The Task Force’s main goal will be to make the Beach/Park area self-supporting with a user-pay system. 

Council Debate

Emily Chorley
Emily Chorley

Councillor Emily Chorley led the debate since she is the coordinator for Parks and Recreation (file photo at right). Dean Hustwick, Director of Community Services submitted a memo to Council outlining options (see link below) but when it came time to decide what to do, Council was divided.  Councillor Aaron Burchat wanted the beach fully opened Sept 1 (his motion was defeated 6:1); Mayor John Henderson wanted the October 17 date moved to October 14 to accommodate an event planned at Century Gardens for October 17; Councillor Adam Bureau wanted the beach fully closed and Councillor Nicole Beatty wanted to know what was enforceable.  The response to Nicole was that although enforcing complete closure was enforceable by using charges of trespassing, social distancing was not enforceable.  In the end the following motion was put to a recorded vote:

THAT Council receive the report from the Director of Community Services;
AND FURTHER THAT Council extend the closure of Victoria Park Beach until after the Labour Day weekend;
AND FURTHER THAT the beach be reopened on weekdays only beginning on Tuesday, September 8, 2020, with the continued closure of the beach on Saturdays and Sundays until October 14, 2020, when the fencing will be removed and the beach reopened.

This passed 6:1 with only Adam Bureau opposed.

Beach Crowds

The next agenda item to be considered was a recommendation by the Parks and Recreation Advisory Committee (PRAC) that the Town should look at “how comparable beach front communities are managing and regulating their beaches and waterfronts for public access.”  (Information on Advisory Committees can be found here) This prompted a debate on whether access to the beach should be regulated. Emily Chorley moved that this be investigated by the PARC and not a new task force.  This was generally well received by other councillors although Deputy Mayor Suzanne Séguin commented that there needs to be a robust citizen engagement.  Emily said that citizens could make presentations to PRAC and John Henderson pointed to “Bang the Table” (Engage Cobourg) as a way to get online engagement.

In the end the following motion passed:

THAT Council receive the recommendation from the Parks and Recreation Advisory Committee (PRAC) for information purposes:
AND FURTHER THAT Council endorse the recommendation of the Committee and request staff to investigate and report on how comparable beachfront communities are managing and regulating their beaches and waterfronts for public access, with the report provided to PRAC by December 1, 2020;
AND FURTHER THAT Council request PRAC to receive public input on how the Town of Cobourg can manage the popularity of Victoria Park Beach, and provide recommendations to Council by March 1, 2021.

These motions will need to be ratified at the Regular Council meeting on August 31 but this is usually just a formality. Update – August 31 – Council gave formal approval to these decisions although it was 5-2 with Adam Bureau and Brian Darling wanted full closure for longer.

So in summary, the beach will reopen on weekdays only from Sept 8 to Oct 14 and then fully reopen and the Parks and Recreation Advisory Committee will look into how to manage summer crowds on Victoria Park Beach.

Links

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Lori laufert
28 August 2020 12:42 am

The lovely Cobourg beach and downtown core including the picturesque marina are why new people want to move here. Keeping them here involves putting our residents and their need first. Cobourg residents should a free pass for the use of their town, visitors must have a cost to use it, as they don’t pay taxes here. Purchasing a pass for the visitors is reasonable. The lifeguard huts are charming, true but I don’t believe that it should be staffed by lifeguards. That makes Cobourg liable. Swim at own risk. That may also make people more aware of their OWN responsibilities while in the beach area. (Fingers crossed.) Have a finite number of Cobourg or beach/park passes available for visitors. This will limit visitors.when they are gone we have got our quota. Employ the now jobless lifeguards to patrol the area for passes. Beach will be safer because less people will be there. The pass has rules and fines printed on them re littering etc, and advertising on the flip side of restaurants and shops. Several shops/restaurants could sell the passes, they each get x amount. When they have sold their allotment they can send them to an alternate seller. Visitors… Read more »

Audrey
Reply to  Lori laufert
28 August 2020 6:15 am

Excellent proposal Lori!

Ken Strauss
Reply to  Audrey
28 August 2020 9:01 am

Indeed! She should present her ideas to the Parks and Rec Committee.

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Lori laufert
28 August 2020 12:14 pm

Those who take advantage of our generosity should be required to pay for it.

Absolutely. It will be a demonstration that Cobourg has no generosity whatsoever. MAKE ‘EM PAY.

Susie-Q
Reply to  Wally Keeler
28 August 2020 12:53 pm

Being generous is great, but when it reaches the level of being taken advantage of over and over again, it’s time to reassess the situation. The Cobourg taxpayers have been very generous over the years allocating money towards the operation of the beach and the clean up that follows. In my opinion, it is time that a fee is charged to help off-set the costs. Like I said, it’s wonderful to be generous, but it gets to a point where it just becomes too financially irresponsible not to recoup some of those costs. I’m sure there are other services within Cobourg that could greatly benefit from the money that is being poured into beach operating costs.

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Susie-Q
28 August 2020 3:05 pm

Generosity belongs with the individual, however the issue here is the so-called generosity of a community towards members of other communities. The community of Cobourg is not mandated to be generous to anyone other than themselves and there is no reason whatsoever that Cobourg should be generous to anyone outside the community. MAKE THEM PAY!

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Lori laufert
28 August 2020 12:23 pm

… lifeguards to patrol the area for passes.

That means they will be harassing local people also.
I don”t have a pass, I live here.
Proof of residence please.
Dig into your purse-backpack-picnic basket to obtain your proof of residency,

Half hour or hour later, another pass checker comes by
Proof of pass please.
I dont have a pass, I live here
Proof of residence please.

And so it goes. from the end of curfew in the morning to the curfew at late evening — a common refrain that I first heard while travelling through the commie countries during the Cold War, PAPERS PLEASE.

Illo
Reply to  Wally Keeler
28 August 2020 2:55 pm

…but you still travelled through those countries nonetheless, right? And so will those who really want to come, enjoy and contribute to our town. IMNSHO anyway.

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Illo
28 August 2020 3:15 pm

I did travel through them, sometimes fearfully, as when Ceausescu’s Securitate shoved rifles into my gut at the border. I have no problem with making the visitors show their papers, but you failed to address that Cobourg residents will also be required to show their papers. So I am sure that you will go the beach and feel blessed to have to show your proof of residency, perhaps two or three times in a day to the walk-about beach enforcers. That’s a point you missed IIIO.

How will these enforcers going back on forth on the beach be able to distinguish a Cobourg resident from a non-Cobourg resident? Hmmmm? It was Lori laufert who made the suggestion to do this and she received 11 thumbs up for the idea.

Illo
Reply to  Wally Keeler
29 August 2020 10:35 am

And in all honesty Wally, I would have no issues in showing my drivers licence two or three times for every visit to the beach. In fact, I would suggest that most residents won’t have an issue representing themselves that way. But you have a valid point, what other options are there to show we are residents? I am not as bright as many others here, but I am sure, as has been done at other pay for access beaches not only in Canada but around the globe, that there is a way.

Here’s hoping a reasonable way ahead is found.

illo

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Illo
30 August 2020 6:41 am

I would have no issues in showing my drivers licence two or three times for every visit to the beach.

The issue is not one of showing ID for every visit to the beach, the issue is of having to show ID several times a day to passing enforcers on the beach, as suggested by Lori laufert.

Frenchy
27 August 2020 10:45 am

I personally have never been on a Cobourg bus, but happily support our transit system (town asset) through municipal taxes that I pay. All that is asked of the transit rider is to pay a (well subsidized) small fare to help offset operating costs.
Speaking on behalf of the MMBC, I think a small charge for access to our beach (town asset) would not hurt tourism and help defray some of the costs of maintaining that beach. If there is a difference here, please explain it to me and our membership.

Gerald Childs
Reply to  Frenchy
27 August 2020 10:59 am

MMBC?

Frenchy
Reply to  Gerald Childs
27 August 2020 11:34 am

I was hoping someone would ask.
https://ibb.co/NZQYzQ6

Informed
Reply to  Frenchy
27 August 2020 12:29 pm

Hahah. Awesome

Kyle
Reply to  Frenchy
27 August 2020 2:02 pm

Definitely imaginative and NOT Mediocre…lol

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Kyle
27 August 2020 3:21 pm

. I deserve a cheap Heritage Award Inc plaque.

Frenchy
Reply to  Wally Keeler
28 August 2020 4:35 pm

“Cheap” or inexpensive? And, what would you deserve that plaque for?

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Frenchy
28 August 2020 6:01 pm

“inexpensive” is nothing more than a marketing word, often for mediocrity

Beverley Jagger
26 August 2020 8:18 pm

Kudos to this group. Tough decisions but very happy to hear the beach will reopen. I very much appreciate your thoughts about non residents and there isn’t an easy solution. I live in Warkworth and while I don’t swim or picnic at the lake I do enjoy walking the beach from time to time. I am a non resident who does indeed do all my shopping in Cobourg. My dentist, Dr .,
Hairdresser, Accountant and bank are in Cobourg. My husband has had all his chemotherapy treatments there. So, although we do not live there, we do
Spend our money there and I’m sure there are many, many others who do as well. We come for Ribfest, Highland Games and Canada Day and have done so for many years. Just a thought

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Beverley Jagger
26 August 2020 9:34 pm

You are quite welcome to walk the beach from time to time, but keep in mind that many Cobourg residents want you to pay for that privilege in the near future. The fact that you do lots of wonderful things in Cobourg is welcome, but it doesn’t entitle you to a free beach walk. That’s just the way it’s likely gonna be. Lovers used to walk the beach at midnight, but one has to obtain permission to do that because there is a year round curfew. Dat the way it is.

JimT
Reply to  Beverley Jagger
26 August 2020 9:50 pm

Thank you for giving us your special view of this situation. It reminds us that there is a lot more to this whole discussion than just locals versus visitors.

SW Buyer
Reply to  Beverley Jagger
26 August 2020 10:31 pm

All well and good that you use and enjoy the services available to you in Cobourg. I’m sure the businesses you patronize appreciate your trade. You are the type of visitor that Cobourg appreciates and needs. None of this however, contributes to covering the Town’s cost to maintain the beach. If you kept a boat at the marina would you expect Cobourg residents to pay for that? Perhaps skating at the CCC or parking downtown? Why is beach access any different? The beach maintenance costs are estimated at upwards of $500K per year, currently all paid by the local residents. Is it fair that non-residents should enjoy the use of this Town asset at no cost, while the local residents foot the bill. For years, Cobourg heavily promoted the Cobourg beach in the belief that the “beachers” would save downtown. Cobourgers, to a degree, now understand that this was and is an urban myth. Beachers, as a group, contribute little to the economic welfare of most of the Town’s businesses and cost the Town’s taxpayers a significant amount to maintain the beach and provide related services. Pay for Play is required at the Provincial Parks such as Sandbanks. Other beach… Read more »

Last edited 3 months ago by SW Buyer
Rob
Reply to  SW Buyer
27 August 2020 8:21 am

You can skate on the outdoor “frink” in the winter and enjoy Rotary park in the summer for free …I’m sure most would like to see that change as well.

Huswick acknowledges in 7.0 the economic impact of the beach on small business and the tourist industry in his report SWBuyer…is he out of touch?

JimT
Reply to  SW Buyer
27 August 2020 8:38 am

Seriously? $500,000. is ten thousand a week, and since there would seem to be no maintenance for 6 months a year, we’re talking twenty thousand a week to maintain that one beach in season?

Seems unlikely. Perhaps further explanation is in order.

Conor
Reply to  SW Buyer
27 August 2020 2:26 pm

My My My, SW Buyer. What an attitude you have. What facts do you have to say that the “beachers” don’t spend money? You will find out this year as your local businesses fall by the wayside from lack of tourism. Sandbanks is not a town and is a provincial property. Maybe some locals such as you should consider more shopping locally rather than shopping Amazon which I am sure you do. One way for you to increase revenue could be well lets see. Perhaps having to show your identification at the public library washrooms and “out of towners” could pay a $ 25.00 surcharge?

Canuck Patriot
Reply to  Conor
27 August 2020 2:45 pm

We would appreciate learning from a beacher how much you spend on a regular visit to our Town, what you spend it on and where..

Conor
Reply to  Canuck Patriot
27 August 2020 3:24 pm

What makes you think I am a beacher. Yes I like Cobourg’s waterfront and I do spend money on restaurants and shops and aside that it’s nobody’ business unless you work for Revenue Canada

SW Buyer
Reply to  Conor
27 August 2020 3:39 pm

Conor: I said the beachers as a group spend little. This excludes the beach canteen and the two ice cream shops. The downtown merchants are the ones saying that “beachers” don’t spend. You will also note that I separated “tourists” into two categories: visitors: the spenders and beachers. Whether I (or any Cobourer) shops on Amazon, is not relevant to this topic. True, Sandbanks is not a town, but that is not the point. Sandbanks is a provincially owned “public” space….a park and a beach. The prov charges an access fee to use the park/beach. These fees help offset the cost of operating the parks. How is that different from what is suggested for Cobourg? As for your suggestion (claim) that local businesses will be falling by the wayside from lack of tourism, that’s quite a leap in logic especially when you don’t differentiate between visitors (the spenders) and the beachers (minimal spending). There are a variety of factors which could be responsible, including the lack visitor spending. Do you have a study or any data to support your suggestion? Your suggestion about washroom charging has merit, but not at the library. Tour buses full of tourists regularly stop at… Read more »

Last edited 3 months ago by SW Buyer
Kate
26 August 2020 6:44 pm

The beach is closed. Why is the town still grooming the beach?

Fact Checker
Reply to  Kate
26 August 2020 7:17 pm

Dean has to spend his budget somehow.

Bernard Laufert
Reply to  Kate
29 August 2020 8:56 am

Because birds shit.

Wally Keeler
26 August 2020 4:55 pm

Here;s the latest

http://trenthillsnow.com/2020/08/25/northumberland-county-has-31-covid-19-cases-numbers-continue-to-slowly-rise/?fbclid=IwAR33KOa70do7QdKcZuZxsdpBsreASQo2bL8_pNhqc2hjdiwqHhPGfyP_kD4

There continues to be a slow increase in the number of cases following a period of time during which cases seemed to have stabilized.
In the past week or so that has changed.
The updated Northumberland stats by the Haliburton, Kawartha, Pine Ridge District Health Unit are:31 total cases to date3 Current High Risk Contacts2 hospitalizations to date30 Resolved to date0 deaths to date

Rob
Reply to  Wally Keeler
27 August 2020 8:25 am

All that to say 1 case….I wish they would report the numbers in such a way as to not invoke the fear response in the general population. People can not tolerate living in an environment with fear is a constant – it is so incredibly harmful.

MiriamM
26 August 2020 2:17 pm

Questions … Is too much being packed into the park and main beach during the prime summer season? For example, a number of big events in the park adjacent the beach and in recent years it seems that very often there would be large sports tournaments set up on the beach complete with amplified sound systems for music and instructions for competitors. Does the beach appear to be extra busy, even too busy, at these times? Or, are there details that need to be addressed so that all these can happen? The park and beach space needed for these events and tournaments also demands related facility needs such a parking. For big beach tournaments on weekends, with many practice and competition courts set up, it means the tournament and staging areas can not also be used by the casual visitor to the beach who then will set up in denser groups on remaining areas of beach.

Malcom
Reply to  MiriamM
27 August 2020 10:07 am

Spot on MM. Having lived in the area directly adjacent to the beach for many years, the problem of overcrowding has reached critical mass.
If the beach is already at capacity (what is a safe number anyway per sq.m?) on any given weekend during the summer, then adding an event at the same location, only exacerbates many problems. (proper parking, restrooms, garbage etc)
Every year we just cram more and more people into a finite piece of real estate; then complain about a problem that we ourselves caused.
The cherry on top, is we don’t look in the mirror but blame people that don’t live here for a problem we created and made much worse!
Ironic, tragic comedy I guess.

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Malcom
27 August 2020 10:29 am

Location location location is why so many mass attended events are held in Victoria Park/Beach.

K2kraky
26 August 2020 11:48 am

There has been an increase in cases within Ontario and few new ones to Northumberland County. Why would we risk the standard we have maintained now with children going back to school shortly. I understand they are bored and want the beach but do they also want to risk coming in contact with someone with the virus then go to school get it or pass it around and home to their family. We all know kids will be kids. Heck even adults forget and I’m finding social distancing extremely lax in many places. People are relaxing. For me it’s not worth the cost to the town and ultimately the tax payers. Not the risk to those who will have to man the beach. It just does not make sense at this time. One summer without a beach for the sake of our residents is a small price to pay. And as a tax payer I do not want to see an increase on my taxes. Everything is going up except my wage and many are stretched to their limit already. Keep costs down, keep it closed until October and keep us safe from Covid. Start working now towards next year… Read more »

Thomas
Reply to  K2kraky
26 August 2020 3:08 pm

I agree with k2kraky, what is the rush. The season is almost over but Covid is not!!! The thought of throwing all these people together, on the beach, is crazy. Wait until there is at least a cure on the way. Lets just think about this for more than a moment. Let the season stay as it is for now. Hopefully, things will all
change before next summer.

Malcom
Reply to  K2kraky
27 August 2020 10:19 am

I understand what you’re saying but cases are going to rise regardless, as schools and the economy reopens.

I would think, the beach in the offseason can be a relatively safe outdoor activity when proper protocols are in place and enforced.

M. Rosan Pietras
26 August 2020 11:34 am

This information is unfortunately not what I expect from the good citizens of Cobourg you are better than that. My husband and I have been coming to Cobourg for the last 20 years at least 2 times a year. We have been staying at the Best Western Plus. We have dined at many local restaurants several times and have spent quite a lot. When Bottoms Up was open I would buy my entire professional wardrobe for the year. I was welcomed by the owner who has since retired and complimented her unique inventory. My home has many pieces of furniture and accessories also purchased in Cobourg. This year is the first time we have not visited and shopped in Cobourg. Your beach closure has influenced our decision not to visit this year. We live in the area of Kleinburg a village that draws many visitors during the summer. With Art Galleries and restaurants it draws people. Your beach is a draw and should be inclusive of everyone. Restrictions on beach use would be problematic for tourists like us that have widely complimented Cobourg and your eateries to no end.

Bryan
Reply to  M. Rosan Pietras
26 August 2020 12:31 pm

Your’s is an interesting comment and tells a story of exception. I’m sure the Cobourg businesses that you patronized appreciated your trade and loyalty. Nowhere in your comment did you indicate that you came “for the beach”. Rather, you came for the other good things that Cobourg offers.

Many Cobourgians now accept that there are two categories of “tourists”: Visitors, like yourself and “beachers” who come solely for the beach and spend little if anything. Few local businesses rely on the beachers to contribute to their profit. Few locals go to the beach on a summer weekend. Its too crowded with “beachers”,

The Town (local property tax payers) incurs significant expenses (upwards of $500K or more) to service the beach: lifeguards, garbage removal, beach grooming, bylaw enforcement, no-fee parking and more.

Cobourg is not a trail blazer in this regard. Other Ontario beach communities have (or are considering) ways to ensure that the non-locals “beachers” contribute to the cost of beach upkeep and reduce the local taxpayer burden.

Last edited 3 months ago by Bryan
Sam
Reply to  Bryan
27 August 2020 5:47 pm

Just wondering?

Do the local hotels & restaurants not pay property taxes?

Why do we have hotels motels in Cobourg if nobody stays in Cobourg?
Why is a new Hotel being built on De Palma drive near Home Depot?
Why does the Town Council constantly review turning the campground into a new hotel complex?
Perhaps, we should stop all the ill informed none sense.
Lets dig up the sand on the beach, build a sea wall and dump the sand in the harbour to close the Marina?
In fact why do we allow the Marina to exist? Do we not get out of Towners sailing and STAYING there on their fancy boats? How much does this contribute?
Oh I know. Boaters keep the downtown LCBO afloat.

Informed
Reply to  Sam
28 August 2020 2:25 pm

Boaters pay slip fees and dont go home the same day.

Bryan
Reply to  Sam
28 August 2020 2:37 pm

And your point is?

Derek
Reply to  M. Rosan Pietras
26 August 2020 6:42 pm

The town of Cobourg wants people like you to come and enjoy the beach but unfortunately there are more people out there that come to Cobourg and use the beach as a dump after reaping the benefits of Cobourg’s good nature. I live in Northumberland County and used to go to the beach often. I haven’t been there in a long time because it has changed for the worse. I think you have the wrong impression from us. It’s not you but the bad apples that ruin it for everyone. Hope you still keep Cobourg in your heart.

Illo
Reply to  M. Rosan Pietras
27 August 2020 8:26 am

McMichael Canadian Art Collection Fees: TICKET PRICINGMembers FreeAdults$1825 and under$5Children (5 and under)FreeSeniors (65 and up)$15Parking$7 (Free for Members)Kortright Centre Fees:REGULAR DAILY FEES*Parks Members: FREEAdults (Ages 15-59): $ 8.50Seniors (Ages 60+): $6.50Youth (ages 5-14): $3.00Child (4 and under): FREE with adult purchaseSo the attractions in Kleinburg are also a pay for access affair – how come we need to be different?Sad fact is as we evolve and continue to legislate a minimum standard of upkeep and cleanliness, that such upkeep comes at a price and we have reached a point where the burden on local residents is no longer teneble and pay for access has to be brought in. I believe (and I can’t say for sure though) that the town receives some money from the Municipality of Northumberland – so in my view, residents of Northumberland ought to be provided a pass which allows them access to the beach free of charge. If you are not a resident of Northumberland, you should help defray the costs, or perhaps consider a provinicial park (pay for access) or go to a busier, commericial beach area such as Wasaga or Grand Bend. Like anything, once the initial sticker shock is over, everyone will have found their new… Read more »

Illo
Reply to  Illo
27 August 2020 8:27 am

(sorry – the formatting of the price lists came out badly…links below:

https://mcmichael.com/visit/

https://kortright.org/plan-your-visit/

Malcom
26 August 2020 11:29 am

Having lived near the beach for over a decade, let me assure you “out of towners” thin out drastically after the Labour Day weekend. A Mon to Fri beach opening should work out well for locals, with a weekend closure.

Whether we opened the beach or not, it was already in the cards (and proven in other country’s reopenings) that cases are likely to increase as more restrictions are lifted regardless.

If the health unit thinks it’s ok, I’m good with that.

Last edited 3 months ago by Malcom
Gracie
26 August 2020 11:15 am

Why not convert the campground/trailer park to commercial stores and eateries. This would give visitors options to eat and shop close at hand. Also have paid parking in the same area.

Rob
Reply to  Gracie
26 August 2020 11:32 am

You’re right Gracie with all the noise coming from particular pockets of residents regarding a lack of beach goer and tourist spending this really should be part of the conversation ….

Canuck Patriot
Reply to  Gracie
26 August 2020 12:37 pm

The fact that the campground sits on a floodplain is one reason why converting it to restaurants, bars or other beachfront attractions it won’t work.

Last edited 3 months ago by Canuck Patriot
Rob
Reply to  Canuck Patriot
26 August 2020 12:52 pm

CP – something tells me if we can put a man on the moon we could figure out a way to address this 🙂

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Rob
26 August 2020 1:14 pm

At the same cost as going to the moon?

Last edited 3 months ago by Wally Keeler
JimT
Reply to  Canuck Patriot
26 August 2020 2:09 pm

Forget restaurants and bars. Seasonal kiosks and concession stands with picnic tables that can all be removed and stored are all that is required.

The former campground – now a trailer park – can be put to better use serving the beach goers and their needs, as others have noted here.

Last edited 3 months ago by JimT
Thomas
Reply to  JimT
26 August 2020 3:15 pm

That campground is a lot of money for the Town. Look at the campground now, the beach is closed but they still come to the campground and spend money in our town.

Rob
Reply to  Thomas
27 August 2020 8:30 am

New businesses paying taxes, development charges, new jobs and people employed in the service and hospitality industry, user fees at the beach, increased parking, etc… All of these would be an economic benefit to the town and support the trailer park being developed.

SW Buyer
Reply to  Rob
27 August 2020 8:43 am

New businesses don’t pay property tax unless they own the property. Employment taxes doesn’t go to the Town. Only the development charges, user and parking fees benefit the Town. This topic has been discussed extensively about a year ago as part of the Waterfront plan. The consensus was that Cobourgers are OK with the VPC and don’t want condos or Wasaga Beach style retail in that location.

Rob
Reply to  SW Buyer
27 August 2020 9:49 am

Times change SW…need to reprioritize, rethink, re-evaluate, repurpose. Of course employment taxes don’t go to the town but those employed people support business, buy/build homes, etc.. it can’t only be about the Town directly and taxes.

SW Buyer
Reply to  Rob
27 August 2020 11:10 am

Rob: that is exactly the way to look at it. You are a “shareholder” in the Corporation of the Town of Cobourg. The Town is in the business of providing municipal services to the residents of Cobourg

Shouldn’t you be concerned that the Town does so in an efficient cost effective manner and that the Town’s assets are well managed for the benefit of the shareholders (residents)?

Rob
Reply to  SW Buyer
27 August 2020 12:07 pm

I don’t disagree. I guess where we seem to differ (perhaps not) is as a shareholder I’m also concerned about the impact on small and medium sized business, which is the backbone of our community. I think its in the best interest of the shareholders that the Town actively attract new and support existing business in meaningful way. This increases the tax base, creates jobs, etc – this attracts new shareholders. Our community cannot survive on its aging population living on fixed incomes. We need private sector business investment. We required young families relocating, earning decent livings, buying homes, playing organized sports, purchasing necessities, access services for our community to thrive. The Town that I’m a shareholder of should do all it can it ensure this happens. Its more than streets and sidewalks.

Sam
Reply to  Rob
27 August 2020 6:00 pm

Rob,

Just commonsense.
Of course sense is not as common as we would all like.
Good points.

JimT
Reply to  Rob
27 August 2020 8:31 pm

Everybody says we need more jobs here, but they’re all thinking only in terms of factories and industry.

Well, tourism and hospitality are big industries that provide lots of good, clean jobs for men, women and young people, too.

Forget manufacturing, we should be thinking of being a center of the hospitality industry and all the economic activity that implies.

Last edited 3 months ago by JimT
Wally Keeler
Reply to  JimT
28 August 2020 12:46 pm

 we should be thinking of being a center of the hospitality industry and all the economic activity that implies.

I agree. What creative ideas does anyone have that would make Cobourg distinct from the hospitality of competing communities?

JimT
Reply to  Wally Keeler
28 August 2020 6:06 pm

Potential uses for a 300,000 sq. foot beach on Lake Ontario.
A determined intention to become a safe, comfortable and friendly environment for R & R away from the city.
For starters.

Sam
Reply to  SW Buyer
27 August 2020 5:58 pm

What a load of nonsense.
If you don’t own the building you have to be a tenant right?
Tenants pay taxes don’t they?

Last edited 3 months ago by Sam
Sam
Reply to  Rob
27 August 2020 5:56 pm

Who wants to develop the Campground or even the trailer park?
LOL

Sam
Reply to  Thomas
27 August 2020 5:55 pm

So are the hotels.
Of course if the beach is closed to non residents how long will the Campground last?
Are campers and hotel guests not indirectly paying taxes to the Town?

Sam
Reply to  Canuck Patriot
27 August 2020 5:52 pm

Hang on!

Should the waterfront condos & shops on lower Division and Third street be closed down & evacuated?
They only got built in the last few years.
More ill thought out twaddle.

Beach walker
Reply to  Gracie
26 August 2020 3:45 pm

Be careful. We suggested that a few years ago and were labeled “elitists”.

SW Buyer
Reply to  Gracie
26 August 2020 4:29 pm

Gracie: Sell it to a developer? They would want to build condos, not retail space which is a lot riskier. Hopefully you’re not suggesting the Town undertake a project like that; another CCC white elephant to suck up taxpayer dollars.
Why build anything for the “beachers” anyway? What would the Town get out of it other than an eye sore and financial risk. What about the needs of the current “campers” who certainly do spend money in Cobourg. Some estimates say that half of the “seasonal campers” are Cobourg residents. They “camp” rather than go to a cottage.

Sam
Reply to  SW Buyer
27 August 2020 6:08 pm

Valid SW.
Don’t forget that new condos do in fact create more jobs (construction), property management, ongoing maintenance and of course more sivil servants.
They provide huge boosts to property taxes etc. and help with the revitalization of the downtown.
Quite a benefit ?

SW Buyer
Reply to  Sam
27 August 2020 9:04 pm

Benefit to whom? This issue has previously been considered at length and the conclusion is that Cobourgers don’t want condos built at the VPC

Derek
Reply to  Gracie
26 August 2020 6:50 pm

How is that going to help the downtown core ?

SW Buyer
Reply to  Derek
27 August 2020 4:24 pm

Derek: It is not the Town’s responsibility to “help” the downtown core. Why should tax dollars be spent to support a specific group of businesses while excluding others. I’m sure the mall would appreciate some fiscal help.

JimT suggested…seasonal kiosks and concession stands….. Is that what you had in mind? Do you think that would help the downtown merchants?

It is a Cobourg urban myth that beach tourists (beachers) will save the downtown core. The downtown merchants already know this. Why is it so hard for others to let the myth go?

Sam
Reply to  Gracie
27 August 2020 5:49 pm

We have enough empty stores etc. on King Street as it is.

Curmudgeon
26 August 2020 9:46 am

Anyone who has read this blog over the years, knows that many in Cobourg hate the Beach and the Marina. Covid has been a boon for them with the closing of the Beach for now. They will try to make the closure permanent and failing that restrict access.

Wondering why
Reply to  Curmudgeon
26 August 2020 9:59 am

The beach has been here for several hundred years…way before you lived here, I’m sure. If you hate the beach, why do you live here? Why don’t you move to a town that doesn’t have a beach and a marina.

SW Buyer
Reply to  Curmudgeon
26 August 2020 4:35 pm

Restrict access? No…pay for access just like the provincial parks (Sandbanks, for example). How is it different. Other beach communities already do this or are considering it. Residents no charge, others pay a beach maintenance fee.

Sam
Reply to  SW Buyer
27 August 2020 6:13 pm

Collection costs?
How much do parking meters really pay after the costs are factored in?

SW Buyer
Reply to  Sam
27 August 2020 8:45 pm

In Cobourg, quite a bit…about $200K after costs. But this is not about parking fees. It is about a user fee to use the beach and offset some (all?) of the costs of operating the beach.

Last edited 3 months ago by SW Buyer
Sam
Reply to  Curmudgeon
27 August 2020 6:11 pm

They have already achieved that objective.
What does Paul & his narrow minded buddies suggest next?
The proliferation of Fast food is a health risk possibly.
Book burning after that?

Paul Pagnuelo
Reply to  Sam
27 August 2020 6:53 pm

I’m not advocating for fast food restaurants or book burning and don’t know where you get the idea that I am. Do you just make this stuff up or insult people because you disagree with their views?

My recommendation to Council was to establish a representative task force of residents and businesses to examine the issue of beach access, whether beach tourists meaningfully spend any money at local merchants, how to control access as the crowds continue to grow and how to recover costs associated with operating the beach on a fair and equitable basis.

If that’s what you consider being narrow minded, it’s more than you seem to be offering as a solution.

Bill Thompson
26 August 2020 9:33 am

The town decision to open the beach for 5 days and close it for 2 day weekends is taking two steps back from the original major step forward to protect residents of Cobourg from the Covid 19 virus.
With so many people laid off /unemployed and kids not in school regularly (to be decided) the days of the week are irrelevant . The crowds will return as usual on even more days than before the virus happened.
In essence, it has undone everything it has accomplished prior and for what ?

Informed
Reply to  Bill Thompson
28 August 2020 8:32 am

I dont believe you are correct with the big crowds returning this time of the year.I do agree that it does potentially undo the intention of closing the beach which was to reduce spread of Covid-19. I just dont understand the upside to opening it now. Save the headache and move on to something else. Surley there are more important things on the agenda during a pandemic?

Bill Thompson
Reply to  Informed
2 September 2020 11:37 am

I don’t know where you live but I am right next to Victoria Park and believe me ,normally it is a complete nightmare from end of schools in June through September on the beach ,park and surrounding streets.
Garbage on the streets,park,beach, private properties ,illegal parking etc. and I’m not exaggerating one iota. with this total disregard for the area.
Spend a normal weekend down here next summer if everything is back to “normal”,to see first hand what goes on.,.and for what benefit to the town and its residents ?
We have been fortunate so far during this pandemic ,so now it will be open 5 out of 7 days a week.What happens should people begin being infected?
Restart everything all over again with precautions etc ?
You don’t win a race by leading in first place then suddenly stop running a short distance from the finish line because you’re far ahead.

Sandpiper
26 August 2020 9:15 am

Thank you Brenda : I agree I appreciate hearing the truth for a change from a Long time Resident and Downtown Business owner . If we could only get Council and our Economic development Persons to reread your comments and thoughts about Beach Tourists coming to Cobourg . We might then be better equipped to address the long term issues plaguing the dying down town core . Notwithstanding this unusual yr of Covid . when we don’t wish to attract and contact the Virus . The Town has tied the down town rejuvenation directly to the beach goers as the shop owners savour and economic salvation . Hundreds of Thousands have been spent over the yrs on this self serving make work program by our former Economic development office and staff, with absolutely 0 results or long term effect . The fact is — living at the waterfront and Beach areas we can see the truth in your comments they bring every thing with them and leave the mess and create the congestion . The out of town beach crowd for many yrs now has only cost the Town and tax supporters without leaving a Red Cent on King st.… Read more »

Sam
Reply to  Sandpiper
27 August 2020 6:23 pm

Now lets be fair about Brenda.

Brenda owned and ran Quinn’s Blooms on Division.
Might I suggest that a flower shop benefitted little, or nothing, from Tourists.
Brenda & her husband are nice people but Ms. Quinn speaks for herself. Not anyone else who owns property or runs businesses downtown.
Please everyone don’t wait until Cobourg downtown turns into Oshawa, Belleville, Brantford etc. downtowns collapse.
Think about the really big picture and like it or not it is about economics.
Until Canada can afford to take the other 45 % of the population on as civil servants we need private enterprise.
Don’t kill entrepreneurs and their employees but…….. stay safe.

SW Buyer
Reply to  Sam
27 August 2020 8:37 pm

According to Brenda, her shop enjoyed a reasonable tourist (visitors, not beachers) trade.

As a former respected and long standing downtown merchant, who better to know about and share some of the impressions, feelings and experiences of the downtown merchants.

I agree that she doesn’t speak for all, but I believe many DT merchants would agree with her comments.

Last edited 3 months ago by SW Buyer
Ken Strauss
Reply to  SW Buyer
27 August 2020 10:36 pm

I agree that she doesn’t speak for all, but I believe many DT merchants would agree with her comments.

As both Brenda and Paul noted in their delegations, it is essential that a study group with representatives of both business owners and residents be established to determine what will best benefit everyone. We’ve wasted years and countless thousands of dollars assuming that “beachers” benefit our downtown merchants. Council needs the facts rather than continuing with probably erroneous assumptions to the detriment of residents!

Rob
26 August 2020 8:19 am

Was also good to hear the CCC is also gradually reopening beginning next week – eager to hear more about the Return to Play plans for Northumberland minor hockey and men’s hockey.

Wally Keeler
26 August 2020 5:48 am

For 73 years I have simply walked onto the beach at will. When the beach becomes a commodity requiring $$$ to enter, I will look forward to having to show proof of residence. A gated neighbourhood and a gated beach. It will take a lot of $$$$ to make me forget 73 years of free public access, so stiff them, make the max $$$$.

Informed
Reply to  Wally Keeler
26 August 2020 7:52 am

Did you also enjoy the packed beaches every weekend with people from the City? The Town did great job marketing our beach but it has not brought the tourist dollars expected. Time for a different approach. I loved having a ball diamond down there as a kid but unfortunately those days are over.

JimT
Reply to  Informed
26 August 2020 10:45 am

Repeating my point made elsewhere: the tourists have brought their dollars with them, there’s just nowhere down at the park for them to spend them and nothing to spend them on.

If we’re going to operate such a tourist attraction as Victoria Beach, we need to add lots of concession stands where the eager beach goers can buy all the stuff they brought their money here for.

Either that or get out of the tourist business altogether, as many seem to prefer.

Small Town Lover
Reply to  JimT
26 August 2020 11:31 am

The Beach tourists, bring their own food and drinks, always have. We Have see them carrying their bags and coolers. They are not interested in buying clothes etc on King Street, they just want to lay on the beach, so let’s charge them for that and let our tax paying residents enjoy the new cash flow. We have seen tourists here all month from all over, parked on King Street. They are the ones dining and shopping, not the beach visitors.

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Small Town Lover
26 August 2020 1:38 pm

I’ve seen family GTA tourists buying lots of food supplies at Walmart before going to the beach, in one instance, the bill exceeded $200. There are YouTube videos of GTA tourists bringing their children to the beach and going uptown to buy stuff. The haters of beachers are often the GTA metropolis migrants that have moved to Cobourg for all the goodness it provides and at the same time deride GTA beachers for enjoying the same goodness, that may compel them to move here also. What sweet irony!

JimT
Reply to  Wally Keeler
26 August 2020 2:18 pm

Thanks, Wally. You have reminded me of the couple on bicycles at King & Division a couple of years ago who asked me if there was anywhere nearby to buy fixings for a picnic, and I had to tell them there really wasn’t.

So there we have it: a tourist town with a fabulous beach where the entire shopping area downtown is a food desert. Something is seriously wrong with this picture.

Informed
Reply to  JimT
26 August 2020 4:39 pm

Really. One exampe to make your point?

Sam
Reply to  Informed
27 August 2020 6:36 pm

Informed
How about the limited Shoppers Drug Mart food shelving or the one convenience store.
We used to have an IGA grocery store.

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Informed
28 August 2020 3:22 pm

I,ve seen several YouTube videos of people from the GTA visiting Cobourg beach and they stopped at our Wal-Mart and spent more than $200 for foodstuffs in one instance, and less from other non-residents. They know that Cobourg residents are not particularly hospitable towards non-Cobourg residents visiting their beach.
.

SW Buyer
Reply to  JimT
27 August 2020 8:24 pm

Things have improved since then: Market & Smor, Shoppers, Dutch Oven, Millstone Bakery

Sam
Reply to  Wally Keeler
27 August 2020 6:33 pm

Wally you are way to smart to duel with some of the bigots.
We all know what this about I think. Why don’t we say it.
Canada is a multi-cultural country and frankly we need immigrants to pay the bills in general and grow the country.
Look at the world in general.
The countries that have immigration are the growth nations. Ask the Japanese how being inward looking has helped their economics.
Like it or not we need money everywhere in Canada if only for the politicians in Ottawa!
What do WEEE all think about that?

Informed
Reply to  Small Town Lover
26 August 2020 4:38 pm

Correct

Sam
Reply to  Small Town Lover
27 August 2020 6:27 pm

So perhaps you should ask around.
Who stays at Hotels, motels, Inns & B&B’s?
Check the facts please.

SW Buyer
Reply to  Sam
27 August 2020 8:27 pm

Visitors… the ones who spend money here and perhaps, a few beachers.

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Small Town Lover
28 August 2020 5:08 pm

The Beach tourists, bring their own food and drinks, always have.

That is not true in any manner. Some of them bring their own food and drinks. So what! Many more frequent the canteen (have you seen the lineups?) to purchase food and drinks. If your assertion was true there would be no canteen. Open your eyes.

Frenchy
Reply to  Wally Keeler
28 August 2020 11:01 pm

How did you know they were “Beach tourists” and not locals?

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Frenchy
30 August 2020 6:58 am

Exactly, and the “Beach tourists” are indistinguishable from locals, so the tourists need to carry and show their ID at all times.

Many locals (likely old fogies) on this blog have asserted that they do not go to the beach on busy days, whining about being crowded out. And if their whining is true, then the majority at the canteen are tourists.

Several summer students served those tourists at the canteen. Those students earned $$$$ towards their tuition for college/university, or the students used their earned money to buy new clothes from a retail outlet in downtown Cobourg, thus circulating $$$$ in Cobourg. That is one way that beacher $$$$ serves the interests of downtown merchants. Or purchase a cheap plaque from Heritage Awards for the best volleyball player of the day. Or the summer student will be able to purchase their first second-hand car from a Cobourg dealership.

SW Buyer
Reply to  JimT
26 August 2020 12:42 pm

JimT: The Town isn’t in the tourist business. It is in the business of providing municipal services, including asset management, for the benefit of the Town’s residents.

Ken Strauss
Reply to  SW Buyer
26 August 2020 6:14 pm

JimT: The Town isn’t in the tourist business. It is in the business of providing municipal services, including asset management, for the benefit of the Town’s residents.

That is how things should be. Unfortunately the reality differs. How do we change the mindset?

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Ken Strauss
28 August 2020 3:39 pm

The Town should not be in any kind of business, whether it is tourist business, hospitality business, sports business, entertainment business, etc etc. Just fix the potholes, cut the grass, and tend to municipal infrastructure.

JimT
Reply to  Wally Keeler
28 August 2020 6:21 pm

Wally: I agree.
Where is this ½-baked idea coming from that the town would be in the tourist business?
Entrepreneurs and business people do that, given a chance, and we all prosper from the resulting private economic activity, including, and especially, young people keeping busy with summer-long employment in our hospitality industry.

Last edited 3 months ago by JimT
Ken Strauss
Reply to  Wally Keeler
28 August 2020 6:36 pm

The Town should not be in any kind of business, whether it is tourist business, hospitality business, sports business, entertainment business, etc etc. Just fix the potholes, cut the grass, and tend to municipal infrastructure.

I completely agree! How do we make it happen?

Leweez
Reply to  Ken Strauss
28 August 2020 8:54 pm

Start with quit kissing the butt of the downtown businesses, and let them market themselves

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Leweez
30 August 2020 7:12 am

No need to kiss downtown business. And there is no need to waste time and money attempting to attract industry or any other kind of kind of job producing business. Young people will go to places where there are more opportunities. Cobourg is stuffed with arthritic seniors who will eventually want little e-scooters. There are already these scooters cruising up and down the downtown sidewalks. There will be more of these scooters because more and more unproductive fogies retire here.

Sam
Reply to  SW Buyer
27 August 2020 6:40 pm

SW
The affluent or effluent Town’s residents!
There are others struggling to get by without jobs or adequate income.
Come on Man as somebody keeps saying south of the border.
Come on Man? Is that gender bias?

SW Buyer
Reply to  Sam
27 August 2020 8:17 pm

And your point is?

Informed
Reply to  JimT
26 August 2020 4:36 pm

Hots dogs,fries and lemonade wont cover the costs to maintain the beach and will leave the dowtown merchants with even less.

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Informed
26 August 2020 1:26 pm

Yes, I enjoyed the packed beach every weekend. In my youth, I loved seeing new girls on the beach. I loved playing with them, especially after the Saturday night dances, when we’d throw some girls into the lake, or past 1am, a quick skinny dip, or lovemaking out at the lighthouse. I got to meet other youths from Toronto and it helped make my transition from living in Cobourg to living in Toronto. It was the Lion’s Club that built the pavilion on the former baseball diamond. Indeed I enjoyed climbing up on the baseball signboard to watch a game. Sometimes a summer romance leads to permanent love. It’s about fun, and not just about money grubbing grumpy seniors.

Sam
Reply to  Wally Keeler
27 August 2020 6:46 pm

Wally
You are an old fox.
But I love your mindset and attitude.
Bet the girls remember you too!
Those were the days (my friend) when life was for living.
Now it seems that life is just a bitch.
Come on Canada. Let’s move on and live life to the full. Stop the bias and bigotry and realise we are in 2020 and may we all embrace the future for the benefit of the kids of today.

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Sam
28 August 2020 5:52 pm

Victoria Park was ideal for pot-smoking hippies. Peterborough RCMP constable Ron MacIntyre and colleagues would sometimes spy on the hippies from the second floor of the Federal Building. Lots of picnic tables between the high trees very centred in the Park, It would take seconds for the narcs to run into the park to catch the pot smokers, and those few seconds were sufficient to drop the joint. They can find it, but it was a public park, so any member of the public could have left it there. A good number of pot parties in Victoria Park. And we provided great entertainment for ourselves. Moe Ewart was a wonderful song writer and performer, and so the hippies gathered at 1am at the bandshell to listen to him playing and singing folk songs. Then later lay on the beach to watch the Perseid Meteor Shower in mid August. (Can,t do that now because of a curfew) There was the wonderful year of OFY grants and hippies were setting up hostels across the nation and the fed govt printed manuals for all the hitch hiking young people. Cobourg had no need for a hostel because we had VP and the beach.… Read more »

Leweez
Reply to  Wally Keeler
28 August 2020 9:22 pm

So what I read from this Wally is, you smoked a lot of weed and stayed up all night?
Would this be the reason why you are not a taxpayer today?

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Leweez
30 August 2020 7:33 am

I smoked weed, but I had always smoked other peoples weed, so that means it was perhaps once a week on a weekend but it was less often than that. I was a court reporter for the local newspaper and I needed to be competent for that sort of thing, and so I didn’t toke at any time for that. I made good money from that job and had no need to jeopardize it. I smoked other peoples weed, which means that I never carried it in my pocket. I watched young people in court who had been busted and received serious punishment, including imprisonment. I noticed that in the majority of cases the young people did not get busted for possession — they got busted for being stupid. Worst of all, were the pseudonym bigots in a small town bloated on self-righteousness admonishing young people through the gossip mills. So your malicious and slanderous accusation that I “smoked a lot of weed” is nothing more than a bigoted lie and smear on your part. It is obvious that you are not a truth teller. Oh I was young and stayed up all night with other young people because our… Read more »

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Informed
28 August 2020 5:05 pm

I enjoyed the packed beach every weekend, including decades ago. I was especially keen on girl beachers from out of town. Girls in Cobourg were stale, so some fresh opportunities from out of town livened up the summer. The more beachers the more opportunities for romance. But of course the metro migrants who moved to Cobourg have zero experience of what it was like to spend one’s formative years in this town in which the beach played a huge part in our bonding as a community.

Frenchy
Reply to  Wally Keeler
9 September 2020 10:21 am

Girls in Cobourg were stale, so some fresh opportunities from out of town livened up the summer.

What does that mean? What makes girls stale and what does “fresh opportunities” mean?

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Frenchy
10 September 2020 9:48 pm

Back in the day, many Cobourg girls regarded the boys in Cobourg as stale, so some fresh opportunities from out of town helped to liven up their summer.

The social circles in Cobourg were limited in terms of dating opportunities. Same old same old. Girls and boys see each other every day at school. Same old same old. Girls and boys sorted themselves out at the many many dances in Cobourg. The dating carousel went round and round and round. Dated him, yech. Dated her. clingy. Dated him. creepy, nerdy, jerk, smells. etc. Dated her. fat, ugly, flat, airhead, etc.

So every summer the beach became the hunting grounds for dating some unknown members of the opposite sex or same sex, The visitors were fresh, unknown, mysterious, cool from the city. It was the opportunity to link, the opportunity to make out, the opportunity to make friends, the opportunity to have fun with other individuals.

The same social dynamic continues today. Look at all those beautiful/handsome bodies stretched taunt for volleyball, glistening with youth, and see all kinds of opportunities for a wide variety of relationships.

There’s the reply to your troll.

Last edited 2 months ago by Wally Keeler
Frenchy
Reply to  Wally Keeler
11 September 2020 10:50 am

Great answer.
You are indeed very creative and imaginative.

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Frenchy
11 September 2020 3:28 pm

What are you trolling for now?

ben
25 August 2020 7:37 pm

This argument about the beach being for Cobourg residents only is myopic and to a certain extent xenophobic. It is public space for the public. We do not have private clubs for Cobourgers all can use this space.

If we want to monetise the area we have perfect opportunity to do so by putting commercial outlets on the East Pier! But Oh NO the same people who want a quiet beach want a private Pier. Can’t be done folks!

Last edited 3 months ago by Ben
Kyle
Reply to  ben
25 August 2020 7:50 pm

The town could sell the park and let developers build condos with no green space. Then pass out directions to the nearest free parks & beaches in other communities to the residents. Isn’t that what basically Toronto has done.

Sam
Reply to  Kyle
27 August 2020 6:48 pm

All developments require Green Space. Town & Provincial planning requirements. Check it out.

Sandpiper
Reply to  ben
26 August 2020 9:21 am

YES IT CAN !
Just for Cobourg and Northumberland
FOR THOSE WHO CARE can be our slogan and for far less money than cleaning up and providing wash rms , parking
and peace officers to control the crowds and crime coming from out side

ben
Reply to  Sandpiper
26 August 2020 12:59 pm

and peace officers to control the crowds and crime coming from out side”

Sources for this statement please or it will be considered as scare tactic to maintain a quiet area for the residents who bought into the area!

Sam
Reply to  ben
27 August 2020 6:51 pm

Ben
Best of my knowledge a lot of the druggies in Town are locals.
This is just a fact.
Some of our locals need to take of their blindfolds or Rose tinted spectacles.

Rob
Reply to  Sandpiper
26 August 2020 1:05 pm

Sandpiper – “just for Cobourg and Northumberland” “crowds and crime coming from out side”…. wow …. words escape me.

divisive, exclusionist, xenophobic, out of touch, …. no wait, I found them!

Canuck Patriot
Reply to  Rob
26 August 2020 1:35 pm

When you can’t support an argument based on logic and fact, the typical response of those who are just shooting their mouth off with irrational thought is to resort to name calling and accusing everyone else of being divisive, exclusionary, xenophobic, and out of touch. I’m surprised that you didn’t throw in racist and anti-Semitic and a few other choice words.

Your meaningless response to Sandpiper proves my point.

Last edited 3 months ago by Canuck Patriot
Sam
Reply to  Canuck Patriot
27 August 2020 7:04 pm

Which kind of Canuck Patriot are you?
Perhaps “Canuck Patriot”, your handle, says it all?
Come on Man. Recognise reality.
We are a multi-cultural society and this is the future.
Like King Canute…………… You cannot turn back the tide. Embrace the country that Canada now is and move on. You can still be a patriot and insist on the the old line.
“When in Rome do as the Romans do” and stick firmly to that slogan. Nothing wrong with that at all.
Think about it.
That is pragmatism. You don’t have agree with everything. Just help shape the future.

Sam
Reply to  Rob
27 August 2020 6:54 pm

I could think of others as well. Bigots and biases. Don’t want to say the “R” word but what is happening to Canada on both sides of the debate?
We have to get along to go along.

Conor
Reply to  Sandpiper
11 September 2020 3:24 pm

Peace officers? No you need emergency task force members and a lot of them and maybe borrow some national guard from New York State. You can’t be too careful with crime from outside. Just for those who care.

Informed
Reply to  ben
28 August 2020 1:46 pm

I just want people to pay for the privelage of using it. No need to be a doormat . People drive for miles for a free hot dog. Cost recovery will thin out the crowds and help recoup some expenses.

Wally Keeler
Reply to  ben
28 August 2020 5:58 pm

Cobourg is full of old fogies and farts who have little use for the beach other than to sit in a folding chair with their arthritis and envy all the young people with their glowing bodies frolicking on the beach. MAKE EM PAY! It;s a good lesson for young people to realize that there is no such thing as community generosity. MAKE EM PAY!

Kyle
25 August 2020 6:31 pm
  • This is an opportunity wasted. This could have been a ‘time out” to finally take a real hard look at what the people of Cobourg want going forward for Victoria Park. Instead they are going to look at what other communities are doing? What a political cop out. At this point they may as well just forget about it being a beautiful peaceful park for the citizens of Cobourg in the summer. Why not one up Wasaga Beach and have a safe injection site there. Maybe a tent city would fit in as well.
Rob
Reply to  Kyle
26 August 2020 8:29 am

Kyle – closing the beach for safety concerns/reopening the beach once safe to do so and reviewing the future of the beach area are not mutually exclusive but there seems to be several contributors who are attempting to link these two items.

Old Sailor
25 August 2020 5:02 pm

A tip of the hat to Paul Pagnuelo and Brenda Quinn for their well thought out presentations. I just read the phase ll Coronavirus stats for European countries. Staggering numbers of new cases. Not sure if the USA will ever get past phase l. Paul and Brenda’s recommendation for a Task Force including a number of local residents is a great idea. Cobourg has changed in the last 20 years and so has the GTA and so has the rest of the province. We can’t just follow the same old policies in light of these changes. And we need a good cost benefit analysis on the beach well before the spring of 2021.

Rational
25 August 2020 2:15 pm

With this decision, coupled with school openings being delay up-to two weeks, the Covid 19 risk profile to Cobourg residents will be increased significantly. Now is not the time as this will bring a major influx of people from high risk areas into Cobourg.

Rob
Reply to  Rational
25 August 2020 2:28 pm

Rational – which school board reopening is being delayed by two weeks?

Rhonda
Reply to  Rob
26 August 2020 8:37 am

Toronto DSB – Sept 15-17
Toronto CSB – Sept 14
Durham DSB – Sept 8-20 staggered starts
Durham CSB – Sept 8-18 staggered starts

JimT
25 August 2020 2:14 pm

“…They bring their own food/supplies, set up, have picnics, sometimes illegally barbecue…”

Well of course they do! They have no alternative except one inadequate little window with a long line of hungry and thirsty customers in front of it. Just look at the lineups at the one ice cream stand on Division St. on a hot day. Huge demand and totally inadequate supply.

We’re missing out on a big opportunity to sell to hundreds of eager customers every day by not making the necessities readily available and close at hand.

Check out how Wasaga Beach provides for the hordes that arrive there with money they are eager to spend on a good time:
comment image

Last edited 3 months ago by JimT
Rob
Reply to  JimT
25 August 2020 2:35 pm

JimT
I agree. I have said the same thing on this blog several times. It is incumbent on the business community to figure out how to transfer the money from the pockets of eager beach goers and tourists into the bank accounts of local business. Our elected officials should do whatever they can to facilitate establishing businesses to process those transactions with ease.

JimT
Reply to  Rob
25 August 2020 4:12 pm

Yes, exactly, and bearing in mind all the while that the town can levy all manner of fees and charges to those businesses as a way to ensure that the town and its citizens share in the considerable financial benefits of such high-volume, high-return economic activity.

SW Buyer
Reply to  JimT
25 August 2020 5:10 pm

jimq; You wrote “….considerable financial benefits of such high-volume, high-return economic activity….And you know this how? have you reviewed the financial statements for the Wasaga beach merchants?
Perhaps this is just another of your flawed assumptions.

SW Buyer
Reply to  SW Buyer
25 August 2020 6:04 pm

My bad. The comment above is in reply to JimT, not jimq.

JimT
Reply to  SW Buyer
25 August 2020 6:49 pm

Did you know you can edit your replies for a short time after posting? Just click the little petunia at lower right.

Frenchy
Reply to  SW Buyer
27 August 2020 9:52 am

I assume they aren’t losing money because those merchants keep coming back year after year.

JimT
Reply to  SW Buyer
28 August 2020 6:34 pm

If you’re selling ordinary ice cream cones for $2.75 a pop and people are lined up to buy them, and you aren’t making money hand over fist, then you are a total idiot who shouldn’t be in any kind of business anywhere.

Greg H
Reply to  JimT
25 August 2020 3:31 pm

I disagree with the concept that that the  role of our council is to facilitate transfer of beach users money to local businesses.  The photograph of Wasaga Beach  shows how the whole of Victoria Park could be turned into a market place for vendors.  This would completely, and adversely,  change the town.
 
My concept of the Cobourg Beach is that we are lucky that it exists.  It is inevitable that out-of-town residents like to visit the beach in the weekends.  It would be sensible if a fee was charged to visitors to defray the costs of life guards, garbage disposal and beach cleaning. But, equally, the Town should cease putting out publicity to encourage visitors. Any further increase of visitors is only going to make the parking situation worse for residents, even charging excessively for parking is not going to increase the number of available parking spots.

Anne
Reply to  Greg H
26 August 2020 8:25 am

I agree with all Greg’s comments. Our goal should be to find a positive, collaborative middle ground and refrain from rampant polarization and commercialization. It’s important to concentrate the town’s marketing efforts on new and exciting County attractions with Cobourg as the hub.

Bryan
Reply to  JimT
25 August 2020 6:01 pm

JimT: Is this your vision of what Cobourgers want?

JimT
Reply to  Bryan
25 August 2020 6:47 pm

My comment is in reply to the oft-heard complaint that beach visitors bring their own food and water and never buy anything here, when in fact there is nothing available for them to buy here.

I have no vision of what the locals want. Does anyone?

ben
Reply to  JimT
25 August 2020 7:42 pm

I have no vision of what the locals want. Does anyone?”

No but we know what some people want – a private club for Cobourgers and soak the rest, or ban them completely!

Ken Strauss
Reply to  ben
26 August 2020 8:39 am

Ben, I’m guessing that most Cobourgians want a “private club” that is well maintained and readily accessible by those who own it and pay for it — the taxpayers of Cobourg! Why would anyone want to pay for others to enjoy our beach while making it difficult for Cobourg residents to enjoy it?

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Ken Strauss
26 August 2020 9:26 pm

I’m guessing “

It.s quite obvious.

Ken Strauss
Reply to  JimT
26 August 2020 8:30 am

Who wants our beach to look anything like your picture of Wasaga Beach? Not I!

Informed
Reply to  Ken Strauss
26 August 2020 4:44 pm

If i wanted a beach like Wasaga Beach I would go to Wasaga Beach

beach lover
Reply to  JimT
26 August 2020 8:31 am

It’s very true that Cobourg has demonstrated a real lack of vision in terms of creating anything appealing for visitors beyond the beach.

Wally Keeler
Reply to  beach lover
26 August 2020 1:59 pm

Yes, Cobourg lacks imagination. It actually suffers from imagination poverty. Even the individuals who call for restrictions, control, etc of outsiders lack imagination. Lets start with fencing of the beach. How should that be done? What kind of fencing? Standard fence or a more attractive fence, which will come with a price tag, but then again we can make the outsiders pay for that and its perpetual maintenance. The fence will have to have enough entry/exit points (egress) to safely process 2-3,000 beachers on any given long weekend. How many exists will be required? Anyone know? And each of these egress points will have to be occupied by at least two workers paid for by the Town. But if we stiff the outsiders enough we can make them pay for that also. So how will the $$$$ exchange be done? Will cash be accepted or only a debit or credit card. Who will handle the money? There is so much more to consider. So if people want to do this, then we will have to stiff the outsiders for as much as we can get in order to cover all the costs to maintain the beach.

JimT
Reply to  Wally Keeler
26 August 2020 2:28 pm

Wally Keeler channeling P. T. Barnum. Y’hafta love it !

Wally Keeler
Reply to  JimT
26 August 2020 7:04 pm

JimT displaying his inability to be imaginative. I guess his bland gland continues to be active.

JimT
Reply to  Wally Keeler
27 August 2020 2:54 pm

Hey Wally, that wasn’t meant as a personal dig – just a wry observation on my part.
No offense intended from me.

Informed
Reply to  Wally Keeler
26 August 2020 4:50 pm

So part of the panadmic preplanning should address all your fence concerns? Fencing was quickly sourced and put up for a closed beach. Aside from all the politics I was happy with the fence.It kept most people out during a panademic and served its purpose.Outsiders as you call them dont have to pay to use our beach because they have a choice not to come.

Last edited 3 months ago by Informed
JimT
25 August 2020 1:39 pm

If beach goers are to be charged a fee for access to our legendary beach, whether wrist band or whatever, it probably makes good sense and good marketing to refer to it as a charge to cover some of the operating and maintenance costs of the beach, rather than have it to appear to be a mere money-grab by the town.

Wally Keeler
Reply to  JimT
26 August 2020 2:09 pm

whether wrist band or whatever,”

In other words, you don’t have a clue. Who prints the wristbands? What will prevent outsiders from reproducing copies of the wristbands? Oh yes, the wrist bands can printed in multiple patterns and colours to prevent fraud. Red for Monday, plaid for Tuesday, purple for Wednesday, paisley for Thursday, or will each wristband be numerically coded distinct from every other wristband through the year? How long will a wristband last — only a day? perhaps a weekend? How will the wristbands be distributed? Who will distribute them? Can an outsider purchase a wristband at the entrance to the beach? Or will they have to go to some central place, like uptown, to purchase them. So an employee will have to be hired to sell the wristbands.

“or whatever.”

What the heck does that mean? Is that just an expression of incomplete thinking?

Canuck Patriot
Reply to  Wally Keeler
26 August 2020 2:47 pm

Wally don’t get ahead of yourself. You have raised some good legitimate questions. Now let the Parks and Recreation Advisory Committee (PRAC) do the work it was assigned by Council to address the issue of access by non-residents.

Hopefully, you will be given the opportunity as part of the public engagement process to make a delegation to the PRAC detailing your concerns and questions together with a recommended solution.

JimT
Reply to  Wally Keeler
27 August 2020 9:23 am

“One fool may ask more questions than ten wise men can answer.”
Italian proverb

Informed
Reply to  Wally Keeler
28 August 2020 1:54 pm

We have all winter to hammer out the details. We just need some good costing to determine a fair fee for use. Its time to treat the beach like a business. One that so far is a huge expense to the taxpayer. I couldnt care less about your silly questions. 9 months should be enought time to get it right.

Conor
Reply to  Wally Keeler
28 August 2020 2:20 pm

May I suggest ankle bracelets. You could reuse one that some prisoners used to wear. Ankle bracelets for “out of towners” and wristbands for the locals. That way the ‘out of towners” would feel welcome