Last Summer, Councillor Nicole Beatty moved a motion that was passed by Council to ask the Province for a report on what was happening at Brookside Youth centre at 390 King Street East. She was not the only one concerned. Many people have asked MPP David Piccini the same question since it was no secret that occupancy was dropping. As Mayor Henderson said at today’s Zoom announcement, in 2014 the Auditor General asked about the low occupancy and in fact occupancy at the facility has dropped 81% since 2004/05. So now the Province has acted and today the facility was closed and the youth were re-assigned. All staff will be able to continue working for the Provincial Government although not at Brookside.
The facility has been operating since 1968, has 16 beds, 14 buildings and occupies approximately 70 acres. For several years now, there were 9 to 15 youth in custody on any given day but when it closed, there were five youth. Brookside employs 100 staff and the 2019-20 fiscal year budget for Brookside Youth Centre is $10 million.
MPP Piccini made it clear that the reduced number of inmates is because of Province wide and Cobourg community initiatives to focus on preventative measures – as Piccini said: “We are now supporting youth at a younger age”. “And this is a good thing”.
But the question remains: what should the land and/or buildings be used for? MPP Piccini has a form on his web site asking for input on the future of this site.
The property belongs to the Province but could be sold to the Town. Mayor Henderson would not commit since it’s not clear if there are environmental or other issues although he said the Town is always searching for land. It’s likely that the Town would also survey residents for their thoughts and of course you can always make comments on this post as usual.
Links
Print Article:
Will this happen more often because there is no place like Brookside
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/private-foster-care-ontario-david-roman-1.5916480
Although upsetting,I fail to see any correlation.
Brookside could be converted to a National Portrait Gallery for Canada.
The federal government has been unsuccessfully seeking a site for a national portrait gallery since the 20th century. Cobourg is a good and suitable location as we have good rail connections to Ottawa, Montreal and Toronto.
Brookside is the largest and most magnificent of the mansions still standing in Cobourg, and it is important it should be preserved.
We are lucky that the province has been looking after Brookside for the last 50 years or so.
The best way to preserve Brookside is that it stays in the ownership of the province. This way it can be restored and continue to be a productive part of Cobourg. Conversion to a portrait gallery would create a number of construction jobs and also long term jobs. it should be a good candidate for any post –covid stimulus funding from the province and federal governments. It would also create tourism for both Cobourg and Northumberland.
Brookside could become an Ontario Provincial Portrait Gallery if the feds are reluctant to act, and they could join it later.
Greg, I love the idea of preserving a grand building but don’t you fear that a portrait gallery would suffer the same fate as has recently befallen the outdoor statues of those who built our country?
Given the censorious social mobs running about, or perhaps that should read, ruining about, each portrait will have to be vetted, so that only those with the purest of pure lives can be hung. That will leave a lot of empty wall space. I credit Greg for thinking outside the box.
Perhaps level the buildings and let it become a park. But no income from that, and the grass will have to be cut at some entity’s expense.
Ken and Wally:
Two very droll comments.
The purpose of a national portrait gallery is to preserve or exhibit pictures of people who have contributed to the development of a country. Thus Sir John A MacDonald and Louis Riel would both be included.
The pictures are distinct from statues, which are generally put up in public places for the sitter to be admired, and are therefore much more likely to be controversial and subject to criticism.
The UK and the USA both have National Portrait Galleries. Canada has the pictures, but they are kept locked up. I think we deserve to be able to see them
Most countries have statues. The UK, the US and probably many other countries have national portrait galleries. How does that prevent the noisy rabble demanding that previously admired images be destroyed?
After the fall of the socialist dictatorshits in East Europe, statues and paintings of Lenin, Marx, Engels, Stalin, and the socialist gang were removed from pedestals and gallery walls. Most paintings were destroyed because they were mediocre, and the statues were set up in a park where they were left to die. Memento Park – Wikipedia
If the Wokeristas can shut down Shakespeare, what makes you think they won’t go after the portraits of an overwhelming number of white cisgendered Canucky yuckie males?
Shakespeare ditched by woke teachers over ‘misogyny, racism’ (nypost.com)
National portrait galleries already exist in many countries, and help their national identities as well as improving scholarship and tourism. In Canada the portraits exist but are in packing cases, locked drawers etc.
When Chrétien was PM there was an idea that Canada’s NPG could be in the abandoned US embassy across from parliament in Ottawa. Later there was a proposal that the NPG could be in Alberta. Both these ideas were not carried through.
My post was that the NPG could be in Cobourg, and that it would be a good use for Brookside.
I find the suggestions that Canadians would somehow deface an NPG to be silly. Also your assumption that all the portraits would be of white people is wrong. There are many Aboringinal, Black and other groups who have been famous in Canada and would be included in a NPG.
Perhaps your suggestions are just trolling.
It’s not a matter defacing portraits. It’s a matter omitting in order to satisfy The Woke. “Perhaps your suggestions are just trolling.” Perhaps it was just a response to your comment. Actually that is all it was.
Portraits honouring four former House speakers who served in the Confederacy were removed Thursday after Speaker Nancy Pelosi declared that the men “embody the violent bigotry and grotesque racism of the Confederacy.?
A judge in Virginia ruled that a courtroom lined with portraits of White judges could impede a Black defendant’s right to a fair trial and ordered that the images be removed before his next court appearance.
2015 Globe & Mail headline “BBC asks Trudeau about Queen’s portrait removal and why rivals belittle him”
Removing portraits — a mistaken approach to promoting diversity in medicine Removing portraits — a mistaken approach to promoting diversity in medicine – The Boston Globe
Then there’s the connection that Paul Kane, with his classic portraits of Canadians of all sorts, had with Cobourg. A rather strong one, if I recall correctly.
“Kane…moved to Cobourg, Ontario, in 1834. He may have taken up a job in the furniture factory of Freeman Schermerhorn Clench, the father of Harriet Clench who Kane married in 1853. While in Cobourg, Kane painted several portraits of the local personalities, including the sheriff and his employer’s wife.”
[Wikipedia]
He is a nation-wide treasure and it would be wonderful if he was given a room to display his works exclusively and permanently.
For what it’s worth I think this would be a wonderful convention centre and maybe the downtown could benefit
Lynn lynn:
Owned, developed, managed and promoted by ???, Town? Private Sector?
Are the other “convention” facilities in town so busy that a new one is needed?
Imagination, innovation, creativity, distinctiveness, uniqueness, originality, novelty,
PRZT!
You whining on and on, again and again about “imagination, innovation, creativity, distinctiveness, uniqueness, originality, novelty” is neither novel, original, unique, distinctive, creative, innovative, or imaginative.
Give it a rest Wally.
I will not give it a rest. I am the ONLY one on this blog that proselytizes “Imagination, innovation, creativity, distinctiveness, uniqueness, originality, novelty” When ya got it flaunt it, whilst overactive bland glands flaunt theirs. And there is no whining about it because I live it all my life and I am proud to have honed those characteristics because it allowed to me to mix with those who do have it. That’s called arrogance, condescension, confidence, defiance, etc.
The white ‘mansion’ and surrounding grounds would make for a great movie set. Rental fees would go to the owners. If Cobourg doesn’t own it, Cobourg wouldn’t benefit from it. The likelihood of a developer with extraordinarily deep- pockets buying it is a pipe dream. Developers avoid Sidbrook, although not the immediate surrounding neighbourhood where developers with deep pockets have already or begun to construct homes — because the land has no buildings on it. A nice clear field.
Perhaps the white mansion could be converted to a casino to bring in $$$$$$$$$$$.
Perhaps it could be converted to a provincial palliative care centre to take care of the majority demographic of Cobourg — old people. The Boomers are now of age to slowly die off. There is money to be made from the dying.
It’s all institutional grounds. The reason Paccini and Henderson have invited the Cobourg public for their ideas is because they have no ideas of their own. Poet Hope has a vibrant community of artists with active imaginations, and Poet Hope is the better for it. Then we have sleepy Cobourg littered with bland gland debris.
Did you ever think of moving to Port Hope?👍
Not at all. Cobourg is my Poem Town. Got any new original ideas of your own yet?
Casino? – Niagara Falls, Ontario – residents, tourists warned, especially for after dark, may draw shady characters
Palliative Care Home – Much needed and the age demographic certainly supports the need and from cases I have seen so far requiring age assisted living here with no where to go think this is an excellent idea
Movie Rental – will the Mansion be designated “heritage” and become another Siderno?
In reading your opening gambit I thought of Rodney Dangerfield –
Rodney – when I was a kid my parents took me to Coney Island. I got lost. When I asked the policeman how long he thought it would be until my parents could be found he replied I don’t know kid, there are plenty of places for them to hide!
I immediately thought of you if your description of yourself is true.
I had never thought of what you were suggesting as I pondered what is needed and could benefit Cobourg. Great to get different ideas. I still advocate for private developer rental apartments and housing of mixed use. Everywhere I look renters are being charged king’s ransoms due to supply and demand. Also please let us know if we are to call you Supreme Leader?
“Supreme Leader”? How absolutely unoriginal, unimaginative and tiresomely droll. I am the head of state of the Peoples Republic of Poetry and I am referred to as Poetician1. I recently received a wonderful tribute from one of Canada’s greatest poets, Robert Priest. Train : a poetry journal: An interview with Robert Priest (trainpoetryjournal.blogspot.com)
Can you name a poet you think should be receiving more attention?
But the 1st person who comes to mind other than that is Wally Keeler otherwise known as People’s Republic of Poetry. He’s done some avant-garde provocative, self endangering stuff that is truly brilliant and unique. I can’t encapsulate it here but do yourselves a favor and look him up. He’s the finest exemplar of the avant-garde spirit this country has ever had.
Oh brother! I could name many people that I have met who are people recognized as leaders in the political world. I don’t ride on their coat tails. As for the 7 down votes people here must like to be called stupid by you without ability to offer suggestion. I gave your submissions fair critique. How about the suggestions others have offered as well as me – you have written them off without so much as any courtesy, comment or consideration. Supreme Leader seems to be what you are seeking to be called.
Wow. Reading these posts makes me really glad that I live in Brighton.
Me too. Many of us, probably.
This is a great opportunity for the Town of Cobourg and maybe the County to explore uses. It has become very evident that Transitions house is inadequate for the county demand and there needs to be an addiction treatment centre. I am sure that the property is large enough for an architect and committee to create mixed housing.
Let the province decide what to do with the property. Who knows they might move a government department and provide some much needed jobs .Unless you can bring back some of the mansions that were on the property the town probably couldn’t afford to do much with it .Maybe you could do what the beach people want, put a fence around and charge admission. Either that or put up a Burger King.
It already has a fence. I think it was to keep people in.
Brookside is 70 acres? Sez who? I measure it at under 1,300,000 square feet, which is less than 30 acres. A big plot of prime land, for sure, but where are those missing 40+ acres located?
Maybe that was the size of the original tract 1½ centuries ago, before much of it was severed to build the existing housing developments, but if so, that figure is very, very out-of-date.
John D:
You report that Brookside is about 70 acres. Where did the number come from?
The property is, at best, 50 acres (514M x 410M) including the motel in the SE corner and the private houses on the east, north and west edges. Excluding these, Brookside may be about 40 acres.
The 70 acre number came from information supplied by David Piccini. Go to his web page here: https://www.davidpiccinimpp.ca/imaginebrookside
Don’t forget the Tannery lands the town of Cobourg acquired in 2007. It sits vacant and undeveloped. Don’t add the Brookside property to this list of town owned property that goes no where. Before Ford further weakens Conservation Authorities let the GRCA state how much of the property can be developed. ( flood plain etc) Let’s get a landscape architect on board to examine the trees and how many must be saved. (As was done on Foote Crescent, then the developer had to change grades and most of the trees died anyway)
Good point about the flood plain. Up to 1700 new homes being planned upstream of this site. Considerations for this site need to consider health and function of the creek and creek system overall as well as protection of existing properties around this site, especially those downstream. And, a few years back a couple of drivers stopped to help a turtle cross King Street near Brook Rd South.
True. Pristine property that obviously won’t need soil remediation or decontamination, at least, the way the Tannery Lands apparently will.
It would be nice to see a mixed neighbourhood with only the one main Entrance/Exit maintained, nice pedestrian walkways including a connection to the CCC. Make the streets windy and therefore quiet rather than any raceways.Save the front Green Belt.
Before everything gets bulldozed get over there and check the farthest Beech Tree on the SW corner of the green belt in front of the fence. This is before you get get to the creek which is on the East side. On a sunny day you can just make out that this tree is very very hollow. Look inside, there is enough room in there for a couple of Black Bears to spend the winter, 3 or 4 people or close to 100 Racoons! Check it out – nice walk too. Save The Tree!!
A connection to the CCC?
this property is a kilometre north of Brookside
do not let it go private . Subsidized housing with assets belonging to the town of Cobourg forever .
Mixed use is an important concept. A large tract of only one kind of housing from end to end is not a good idea. Read Jane Jacobs. That’s how ghettos get created.
MPP Piccini what “is clear” is that the Prov kept all of this in the dark for 7 years (since AG request/report) and now you and your bosses are taking credit for acting. Hmm I guess that is politics. Usage: Immediate – rent property from Prov, make a big parking lot for out of towners (ie Park and Beach goers), all in one spot, generate revenue, awaiting the final decisions (say another 7 years) down the road. Longterm – County buys the land it needs to deploy mixed housing, affordable housing and subsidized housing. DO NOT ZONE COMMERCIAL.
Also don’t forget to respond to MPP website asking for input to this development!
Great move by MPP Piccini and others to convey this in a timely and appropriate manner to the hard working staff instead of, you know, not telling anyone at all, closing and creating mass confusion. Oh wait a second? Real classy work MPP.
Too bad it is so difficult to interest building of commercial rental units. There is a shortage here as anyone can see by the vacancy rate. Combined with some units of Affordable Housing integrated with private and shared by the Town and County. In this swatch a medical centre and also recreation. There is only one pool in downtown Cobourg and one run by the Y. As dense subsidized housing has proved to be a failure in other places I would prefer to see mixed housing.
Wow, 5 youths and 100 staff, why not pay them a severance and lay them off. That’s what the Liberals would do.
Classy
After the severance packages, Liberals would want to erect wind turbines on the land.
Shh! Don’t give anybody ideas.
Wow! It only took Government about 15 years to figure out Brookside was a loosing cause and a waste of money…sounds familiar. The town should not buy the remains of Brookside…it would be a money pit just like the Harbour has turned out to be.
I think the town should own the site and keep it like a park but use it for all of the events that presently over-occupy Victoria Park and the Marina area…70 acres should provide parking as
well.
It’s only about 30 acres now, actually. Piccini’s data is about 150 years behind the times, apparently.
Near my cottage, a substantial parcel of land that included a run down lodge and cottages was put up for auction. It was bought by an individual and turned into an absolute jewel that now has a restaurant, an ice cream shop, executive facilities for meetings and retreats, large parties, weddings etc, a pub, a pool, outside patio for meals, live music, an annual craft show, and so on. It’s a real destination year round. Granted, it would take someone with deep pockets to do this, but I’m just saying, it’s possible.
Do you think this is because By Law enforcement was aggressive to prevent another Sidbrook and Planning was Open minded enough to consider new out of the Box ideas
How long did this project take from Purchase to start of construction ?
Sounds like a lovely idea Phunkeemum. Except perhaps minus the pub. Perhaps large events would draw people to the downtown to eat in the many restaurants and pubs in downtown. It would also encourage hopefully some downtown shopping in other businesses. With high end clientele at the executive facilities you suggest they would have money to spend more so than the crowds attending such events.
The Spa in Grafton is often mentioned to me by friends that have visited, perhaps add to executive building – there is enough land for a surrounding park like setting and walk into town is short. For people that like to walk – drive back, add revenue from parking meters, spa and executive retreat year round – myself this winter I have had no problem getting a parking space downtown.
Good idea Phunkeemum.
This would be a creative way to use the property and generate income for the town. A partnership with “deep pocket” investors could make it come true.Tennis/pickleball courts, spa ,pool, meetings, retreats etc. would make an attractive close getaway destination from the GTA for corporate events. I think more of those will happen in the future since a significant number of people work from hope and will need to “gather as a collective” from time to time. Much closer than Prince Edward County, too.
Cobourg can be more than a beach. It needs imagination and incentive and initiative to make things happen.
It certainly does need imagination — something that is sadly lacking in the inhabitants of this Town. Phunkeemum simply copy cat’s another Town. No originality, no imagination.
If your imagination is about painted trash cans and poems on the back of park benches then maybe you need to look in the mirror. Copying successful ideas in other municipality’s is smart and always worth exploring.Would you like to hire some more expensive consultants?
So now all the dreamers on this site will chime in with their wish list for the site, but along comes reality! The 70 acres is too much for the Town to buy, the 70 acres is too big for a large scale developer to buy and fill with homes – the market is saturated for many more homes – too many in the building stage already. So what will happen? Prediction #1 the Province will selloff the land and buildings to a friendly landbank, one who is pals with Doug Ford in a knockdown price. A development of that size will need a secondary plan which will take years of Town and legislative time.
The stately admin building may become a white elephant of Sidbrook fame and the rest may become just a large plot of land to be mowed three times a year. In the end Cobourg will be left with an unsightly mess for years – not a pretty prospect and I hope to be proven wrong by people with big pockets and big dreams. But as we have seen with the Kraft site and the development site on Elgin by Rotary Park they come and go.
Ben:
Your predictions are somewhat dire and sadly have a reasonable chance of coming true.
You wrote: “…70 acres is too much for the Town to buy,..” Perhaps, but the Town has done this before. The Northam Industrial park is at least this size and likely bigger. The Town bought it, albeit for a bargain price and developed it into a profitable property. The Town, or better the County, could acquire the property and develop it for “affordable” and subsidized housing.
It would take years develop the finished product, but I think this would be a good use of the property and certainly preferable to having lie fallow in a developer’s landbank for a decade or two.
“The Northam Industrial park is at least this size and likely bigger. The Town bought it, albeit for a bargain price and developed it into a profitable property.”
Bryan, as one of the builders of this project we did a damn fine job but the park is running out of big lots. I hope you are not suggesting that we build an industrial park at Brookside.
If you are suggesting that the Town develop residential good luck with that. The Town has consistently refused to build any form of housing, especially low-cost housing, why would they change their attitudes now?
You are more likely to get a reaction if you suggest two things; one is that the Province give (for free) some of the land to the County and two the County enter into a development agreement with a developer who would build a mixed residential market based development with the emphasis on low-cost housing which would be built on the land given to the County.
Amazing Ben, that is what I suggested.
I wrote:”…develop it for “affordable” and subsidized housing…”
Further “…..The Town, or better the County, could acquire the property….”
Please read and comprehend before jumping to confusion.
This is in No way to big a project for a Large Developer
In fact that has been the exact issue and problem in attracting
a Group like Tribute or a Plaza Corp. to come to Small town Ontario
I have a family member that works in Planning at Tribute and if the project is not for large volume
construction they don’t find it economically viable to set up and build here Up until the last year
the absorption rates of new homes here has been low These companies sell more New product in a Moth than we build in 2 yrs around here
So where are the large developers? The Rondeau land has been in the pipeline for more than a decade, New Amhearst’s next phase has been approved but coming on stream slowly, the Stalwood development is in progress but only in stages and will top out at 300 houses. The 70 acres if built on will yield a thousand houses but as you say where are the buyers and who is going to to sink capital into a thirty year project. The market is not here for the big guys or they would have been here years ago! Besides as you know SmartCentres is already here, in one form or other.
Cobourg East Rondeau has the same Issues developing in Cobourg as do many others
No Sanitary Sewage Line Capacity ( Not Treatment plant capacity )
The Project by the YMCA , Depalma Hotel , Vandyke just for starters
Mr Terry Hookstra of Engineering has sent out many letters to this effect
to these and many other developers don’t believe me — Check it out
Sandpiper as usual you are indulging in opinion not fact.
“The Project by the YMCA , Depalma Hotel , Vandyke just for starters”
The project by the Y was approved as a site plan in the 80s but the then owner a Mr Veltri, I believe, decided to sit on it for years and it sold a couple of years ago. The new owner is sitting on it still, The Depalma hotel obviously has change issues, or servicing issues that are not the Town’s concern, that do not conform to the existing rules that applied on application and Vandyke was approved 8 years ago and and then Vandyke decided not to build and ran the project over the time limit and had to reapply.
The rondeau people knew that in order to build where they want to build they had to put the services in – sewers in the ground and a pumping station to get over the hill to King St and WCP2, but obviously did not have big enough pockets or it would have been done by now.
Just remember sandpiper, if you sell real estate, your vested interest should reflect the Town’s mantra – “Development has to pay for development!
(5) Youth’s, 100 staff–$10 million budget? closing seems like a no brainer!
Hmmmmm ..”a ratio of 100 staff to 5 bad-boy residents and a $10 million budget” … but meanwhile, our Long Term Care facilities have ratios of staff to residents that bring tears to my eyes!
Well…that comparison sure makes you think about the Government’s priorities. Lets hope they are starting to change.
EXACTLY!!!
Furthermore, our MPP says “It’s a GOOD thing that there were only 5 Brookside residents, because it shows that we have a big reduction of young offenders!”
IMHO, he has his head in the sand, or else he ignores all of the recent news about violent youth-related shootings/crimes!
But then again, our courts prefer to follow that “CATCH AND RELEASE” format when dealing with lawbreakers! Ugh!!!!
A good politician nevers misses an opportunity to put a positive spin on something even when there isn’t one.
Interesting news. The property is collectively lands of former grand summer homes which were bought or expropriated by government. I recall a period (the 1970s I think) when many of the buildings were demolished. A great loss. At least one was still used by the family which built it when the property was expropriated. A beautiful tall ornate fence with gate lined the street. Could be an urban legend but apparently government officials got complaints that the homes were too nice to house young offenders so then the tear down order soon followed. It is possible that some of the buildings were not in good shape or no longer met the changing standards for the facility. The replacements what you see today, the tall security fence came a bit later.
While across the road stands the old hospital with broken windows and “demolition eventually by neglect” status……Who does that belong to yet no mention of it.