Police Chief Frustrated with Courts

It has been called “catch and release” and that’s what it is.  Criminals are caught by the Police, then the courts release them to re-offend a short time later. Today, Police Chief VandeGraaf expressed his frustration with this in a Press Release.  He used a specific example of Cobourg resident Daniel Tyler Foden who was arrested for robbery, death threats and assault of a Police Officer.  He was then released with conditions but went straight out, ignored the conditions and offended again.  Chief VandeGraaf then personally authored a Press Release describing what happened (details below) then finished with the statement: “This is aggravating the level of frustration in our community with a system that does not meet our collective expectations.”  We live in a democracy; that means Politicians are supposed to do what we collectively ask – so let’s ask.

Press Release by Chief Paul VandeGraaf

Authorization: Chief Paul VandeGraaf #103 – September 30, 9:00 am.
Subject: Mischief – Fail to Comply with Bail Conditions

On Thursday, September 28, 2023 Daniel Tyler Foden was arrested and charged with Robbery With Violence, Uttering threats to cause death and assault police officer. He was held for a bail hearing.

The accused was released on September 29th with conditions including but not limited to not be in the Town of Cobourg and to obey a curfew each night from 9:00 PM until 6:00 AM.

Later that same date, September 29th, 2023, the accused was arrested for mischief after damaging property at a construction site in the north end of Town.

Daniel Tyler Foden, 35 years of age was arrested for Mischief, two counts of Failing to Comply with a Court Order and held for another bail hearing.

Paul VandeGraaf
Paul VandeGraaf

Chief Paul VandeGraaf stated “This is totally unacceptable at so many levels. This individual was arrested for violent offences committed in a specific neighbourhood in our community that is currently experiencing increased crime and victimization. This individual assaulted and robbed a member of our community and then the police officer investigating that matter. The decision of this court failed to support our community by allowing this person back into the community with no regard for the impact on the community, the victims, or the police. Not one day passed before this person re-offended in our community. This is aggravating the level of frustration in our community with a system that does not meet our collective expectations.”

How can Police do their job if courts release criminals to offend again?  And let’s not blame Council or the Mayor – it’s a Provincial and Federal matter.

Resources

Contact emails

Police Press Release about Foden’s offence of robbery and assault on Sept 28.

Editorial by Pete Fisher.

6 October:

Chief Paul VandeGraaf has issued a statement on the action by Peterborough Police to have no tolerance for shooting up drugs in public. Download here.

Print Article: 

 

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Gerinator
4 months ago

I guess for the politicians (of all stripes) it is cheaper to catch/court/release/re-offend and repeat is a cheaper cycle than building the necessary incarceration facilities. Is there a way that victims (as a result of the cycle) can sue the politicians and their parties for the impacts of this cycle? Maybe that would up the ante for the politicians to act.

Pete M
4 months ago

I would ask that all, especially our leaders read this article in the National Post to understand that their belief that thru tolerance of use and compassion and empathy of the abusers’ situations will eventually end the abuse and deaths. It wont.

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/former-drug-addict-begs-government-to-stop-safer-supply

It is having the complete opposite effect of propagating the abuse and pain and suffering of all- user, and community members.
I would strongly encourage the Police and council to reach out and consult with some of these drug addiction counsellors. The ones who say safe supply is the wrong path and have other strategies that run opposite to the current strategy of supply, and tolerance and no demand for treatment. Because this current strategy is clearly not working.

Dave
Reply to  Pete M
4 months ago

This was brought up in Parliament by the Conservative Opposition leader to Trudeau and the harm it is doing. Another Liberal policy. Another reason not to vote for the Liberals next election!

Kevin
4 months ago

In the comments on the post about the second unsafe residence being closed there is mention of an information meeting Oct. 10 at CCI. Does anybody have more details?

From this article it seems BC is having second thoughts about open drug use.
BC Pares Back Decriminalization, Looks to Ban Illicit Drug Use in More Public Spaces | The Epoch Times
There is mention of tension in communities. I think we can understand the tension. Perhaps things are changing and our local police will have more power to charge drug users and dealers. The timing of the BC ban, days before a possible information meeting in Cobourg, might make things more interesting.

John Draper
Reply to  Kevin
4 months ago

There are details of that meeting here https://cobourginternet.com/about-cobourg/featured-events/world-homeless-day-10-october and a statement about the Peterborough action by Chief VanderGraaf in a link in the news update box at right.

Pete M
Reply to  John Draper
4 months ago

Thanks John for the link to the Chiefs message.
Very interesting message from the Chief.. Sounds like Chief is taking a wait and see approach to monitor how Ptbo rollout goes.
Hes trying to find that Goldilocks solution where he doesnt upset either side of the issue.
BC govt has seen enough to enact a law to stop public consumption. Ptbo police have seen enough and will at least try to stop and move the person along or direct to consumption site and out of the public eye.
But here in Cobourg we watch and wait because we dont want to offend the pro-public consumption group?

Informed
Reply to  Pete M
4 months ago

This is where politics and policing are at odds with each. Sometimes agencies must decide what is in the best interests of the public at large and get off the fence. We don’t need meetings and polls. Follow Peterboroughs lead so that we don’t get even more from Peterborough coming here with suitcases and knapsacks.

Rational
Reply to  Informed
4 months ago

So Chief Vandegraaf is frustrated with the Courts and says his hands are tied. But he could easily sign on with the Peterborough’s Chief’s initiative but says no – lets just wait and see.

Two thoughts come to mind 1) Peterborough’s Police Chief was new in January 2023 and is supporting Peterborough residents – Cobourg Police Chief is not and in my view has been here too long and be come complacent; and 2.) Cobourg’s Police Chief leans too heavily towards supporting the drug situation in Cobourg.

Cobourg taxpayer
4 months ago

The chief of police in Peterborough Chief Betts announces zero tolerance approach to open air illicit drug use in public places reports Northumberland News. Perhaps Cobourg Chief Vandegraaf could grow some cojones and follow suit, instead of saying his hands are tied and leading Cobourg citizens to believe there is nothing to be done.

Kevin
Reply to  Cobourg taxpayer
4 months ago

People are watching what is happening in Cobourg.
IN DEPTH: Open Drug Use, Other ‘Big City’ Problems Proliferate in Smalltown Ontario | The Epoch Times
I have not read the article because I haven’t paid my subscription yet, but I will. Maybe our police chief will adjust his approach knowing what he does is being watched.

Rational
Reply to  Kevin
4 months ago

In my view this article is excellent – summing up how Mayor Cleveland and Chief Vandegraff have let Cobourg Residents down. The last sentence (see below) says it all – but Leadership only cares about themselves not the taxpayers, who by the way pay their salaries.

“If we don’t get a grip on this, all the good people are going to leave,” Mr. Smith said.

Pete M
Reply to  Cobourg taxpayer
4 months ago

This is Chief Betts zero tolerance:

“This approach means that if officers see open-air illicit drug use or if/when we receive a call for service from a concerned resident we will attend and direct that person to stop and move to a different location. It’s unclear whether they would be sent to an indoor location or private property. The Service will ensure people are provided information (if they choose to accept it) that speaks to the resources available in our community.”

Otherwise known as “please stop doing it here.”

There is no consequence-no fine, no deterrence. Just move along.

In a Cobourg scenario, a person is in more jeopardy for sparking up a dart or drinking a beer outside the CCC than shooting up. Fine vs a please move along.
Lets remember tobacco is legal- opioids are not.

The downward spiral continues…

Informed
Reply to  Pete M
4 months ago

…..and free drug supplies for addicts and not for diabetics

downtowner
Reply to  Cobourg taxpayer
4 months ago

Let’s hope after the next police board meeting {John will have the date} that we will see the result of strong examination of the program being implemented in Peterborough and how Cobourg may also develop a similar, zero tolerance to open air drug use….fingers crossed.
Sooner rather than later our officials MUST begin to hear us and put the brakes on this continual deteriation of our community for the sake of trying to respect that these folks need our compassion for falling into the dispair of addiction.
Over the last 5 years help has been extended laws have been blurred to offer a chance to improve themselves…the opposite has occured.
Another TIMES UP movement right here, right now. Respect for the whole of our community and accountability for our own actions.
I don’t want my Grandchildren learning that this way of life is acceptable or a “poor me” attitude will carry you through your years.

Pete M
Reply to  downtowner
4 months ago

Ontario has the mental health act. If person is suffering from a mental illness and is a threat to themselves ir the public they can be arrested.
If we say this drug addiction is an illness and we know
that it will kill them at some point, doesnt that mean that as a society we have duty to get them in treatment whether they want it or not.
To do a anything less, we are complicit in their suicidal behaviour

downtowner
Reply to  Pete M
4 months ago

STRONGLY agree

downtowner
Reply to  Cobourg taxpayer
4 months ago

It’s a great article but it it the folks in the Troubled Triangle and some business operators, speaking up again…..voicing the facts about the impact of the shelter and warming room being dropped on an unprepared neighbourhood containing a known drug supplying network, that we have been putting forward for 5 years.
Where are the comments from the rest of Cobourg? Will it take something more catastrophic than an encampment being moved around to make you wake up?

downtowner
Reply to  downtowner
4 months ago

Meaning the article in the epoch times

marya
Reply to  downtowner
4 months ago

The downtown area is with You. Your Troubled Triangle is well on its way to being a Ruined Rectangle.

Informed
Reply to  Cobourg taxpayer
4 months ago

We don’t need surveys or polls either. Get it done asap

Informed
Reply to  Cobourg taxpayer
4 months ago

We don’t need polls or surveys either. Let’s have a service that puts 99.5 % of the population ahead of the addicts, thieves and drug dealers. Arrest them, confiscate their stuff and soon they may move to the shadows once again.

Bill
4 months ago

The homeless living in tents in many places throughout Canada and their aiders and abettors now realize that there will be no eviction without alternate accommodation. It is only a matter of time before our Council relents and approves the placement of tiny cabins. Decadence is upon us!

Old Sailor
Reply to  Bill
4 months ago

Bill

Thanks for the happy thought of Cobourg taxpayers funding your pals’ accommodation. I guess your backyard is not big enough to hold them all. Or your family don’t want to be punched in the face or robbed or harassed. Maybe your home is not even in Cobourg? However, you have a point re “no evictions”. So the best remedy would be to leave the campers at Brookside for the winter so as not to be offside with the eviction laws.

Bill
Reply to  Old Sailor
4 months ago

Old Sailor, you have misinterpreted my posting. I am absolutely opposed to the erection of tiny cabins. I use the word decadence to describe the impending result if such were to occur.

Dave
Reply to  Bill
4 months ago

Hello Bill – and so today we had the dumpster diver back again – a woman with a criminal record determined to root through the garbage bin. When told to leave she ignores. The police actually drove her home last time. In addition there was a visiting dealer selling his wares to a woman in a newer SUV. Both cursed the fellow who told them to leave who first took picture of the deal going down. He was hear earlier in the summer selling his wares to homeless looking people sitting on the property. It was dark so I got out my binoculars and watched the deal go down. He’ld be gone before any police arrived riding off into the night on his e-bike. Saw him another time on the property conversing with a man in a newer looking again SUV. The old coyote is anything but polite nor his cutomers when asked to leave by this other tenant. The Chief at one point said he was called out to drinkers who were more aggressive and these people were usually quiet and no problem. Try it without a uniform to see exactly the kind of people these are and how peaceful they are!

Old Sailor
Reply to  Bill
4 months ago

Sorry Bill: I read your posting too quickly and misread your intent. John can delete my comment.

Bill
Reply to  Old Sailor
4 months ago

No problem, Old Sailor. I concur with your thoughts (and Dave’s) regarding the homeless situation.

Dave
4 months ago

Western society has undergone a sea change. Here in Canada we have casinos that have had very loose rules allowing major drug dealers to launder their profits, an immigration system that has allowed many to come to this country with dubious criminal backgrounds, laws that have weakened putting such onus on the police rather than the criminal to prove an offense, the breakdown of family, marriage and the true consideration of the child in a nurturing environment. Years and years of a culture here in Canada that is permissive. They say all successful societies implode as decadence sets in. Hopefully it is not too late to return to the ways that made this country a success in the first place. I won’t hold my breath.

Pete M
4 months ago

From the Ptbo Examiner.
Sleeping cabins being delivered to Wolfe St.
Total of 50 cabins to be put in place.
Interesting the cabins being built in Cambridge- apparently same as ones in Kitchener encampment.
Cobourg group wont stop until they have their cabins in place in Cobourg.

Ptbo has hired a mediator to address neighbors concerns. Hopefully consideration on property taxes after having cabins plunked right beside them.
As well as compensation for any loss in property value when they go to sell .

https://www.thepeterboroughexaminer.com/news/peterborough-region/first-9-sleeping-cabins-delivered-to-wolfe-street-lot/article_1f401d95-c0f3-52ec-a73d-a7737f9dc647.html

Kevin
Reply to  Pete M
4 months ago

Interesting Pete M. The city is paying for this, about $21,000 per cabin. PATH estimates cost of cabins at $6000. Either way is it much cheaper than regular community housing. The PATH model includes:
“… anyone will be able to find a space to share their gifts, learn and grow together, as one intentional, caring community.”
They also want to engage the community in support and friendship.
Frequently Asked Questions – PATH (pathptbo.org)

My recommendation, drug rehab needs to be a mandatory part of these projects if it is Peterborough, PATH, or a project in Cobourg. If not, there will be even more frustration from residents and the police.

downtowner
Reply to  Kevin
4 months ago

Just thinking that myself…tri-age the folks and those truely homeless move to the front of the line. I respect that Peterborough is making an effort at being humane but you cannot “box up ” the problem and expect a positive result
I notice this is a 18-24 month project with the aim of more permanent solutions at the end…or more likely when these are destroyed..very likely copper wire in the electrical feeds.
A costly experiment for the city and at a loss for surrounding established neighbours [we will just compensate them for their losses…what price to you place on well being and devastaion of your peaceful living, property is secondary] and the sacrifice they are forced to accept.
Let’s just identify the true problem here, open use and acceptance of ILLEGAL drugs, leading to increased crime to our towns.. and address it before the walking dead take us over.
Got to go…someone went shopping in my garden again…tough to have fun for your grandchildren at Hallowe’en when your joy is evaporating.

MAL
Reply to  Pete M
4 months ago

There are two lovely homes for sale on College Street-wonder if they are being sold because of their proximity to Swayne, Chapel and John Streets? Sadly, I would not be surprised

downtowner
Reply to  MAL
4 months ago

l consider my home lovely as well maybe not quite as stately as those mentioned,but my home l earned and where l want to continue to live. We are all equally impacted in this area…..buckle up Brookside area…even with secure and protected property [motion lights..cameras, shrubery thining.]..they will get to you., eventually.
I speak from experience as l notice another solar light and garden “trinket” missing little sparks of fun ,literally stolen away

Rob
Reply to  downtowner
4 months ago

Sadly, one day soon, an encamper is going to illegally access the wrong property with an owner who is fully aware, wide awake and has a capacity to rightfully protect his property. This will not be a good outcome.

downtowner
Reply to  Rob
4 months ago

No it will not..but there is more than one home with an option available for their protection..these folks no no boundaries, are often impaired [more often than not], weaponized for their protectrion from each other and to force their way on innocents.
Armageddon brewing

downtowner
Reply to  Pete M
4 months ago

I wonder how closely Cobourg residents are watching these developments unfold….especially the mention of a mediator to address neighbours concerns
.Like Cobourg, and Northumberland County, it seems the efforts are going forward..discussions with neighbours afterward.
The TOO BAD SO SAD attitude for property owners , maybe later we will throw money at you.
This in no fashion addresses the grief , mental anguish, and dismissive attitude towards our well being that has been shown to us in this area of Transition House AND the warming room within two blocks with drug suppliers at the ready Which came first? the chicken or the egg?
Yes, we choose to live in the downcore core with many local ammenities accessible without need of our unreliable transportation system and now after 5 years we are treated as a shameful secret because we stand tall in our efforts to be recognized for the strength we have to persevere as our properties and lives are dismissed as an insignificant loss to the town in the pursuit of aid to a group who reject the assisstance offered and continue in their percepted priviledged lives
Again TIMES UP recognize the illness of drug addiction and go forward and stop trying for assimilation in our community for untreated individuals

Kyle
4 months ago

Interesting we have been told quite bluntly the the Cobourg Police Services Board has no role in Cobourg Police operational issues. This is despite the Police Act clearly stating that a Board sets policies for adequate and effective policing and that they can direct a Chief of Police. So what do we have in Cobourg? A bunch of cheerleaders and photo op props?

KalaM
Reply to  Kyle
4 months ago

You are absolutely right! I think we just have to look no further than who are the members of the Cobourg Police Service Board.

KalaM
4 months ago

Can hardly believe the media reporting of what took place yesterday at the encampment. What a joke!!! Taxpayers paying for the collection and disposal of garbage created by the encampment. It is outrageous to think nobody can actually pick up their own garbage. The company picking up the garbage required two police escorts to ensure their safety.
Very frustrated and disappointed that Infrastructure Ontario is only placing process and protocols in place to manage and safe guard their own property. Taxpayers are now paying for fencing, 24hour security, and trespassing signs. Why are we paying for “No Trespassing Signs”??
Who is that for? There is already ONE TRESPASSING ORDER posted on the tree that is being ignored.
It appears the Ontario Government was quick to issue trespassing orders and now they are dragging their feet. Doing all they can NOT to enforce their own orders. The longer this encampment remains in place, the more embolden they will become.
What is this town, county, and province doing to ensure taxpayers safety and resolve this issue?

Rob
Reply to  KalaM
4 months ago

Lucas Cleveland once again stated that concerns about the encampment should be forwarded elsewhere, in this case to IO and that the town was essentially powerless. I say overwhelm him with concerns; Overwhelm N. Beatty and the County as well with. Do not take no for an answer. Force them to advocate in the best interest and on the behalf of the taxpayers, which is his and N. Beatty’s entire job. They will get tired of hearing it.

I’m curious, and outraged how the current crisis related to crime, safety, the encampment isn’t a significant part of Council’s discussion during their meetings (maybe Lucas will comment here again). I don’t want to hear about a 100 year old pair of shoes from Vancouver…I want a comprehensive strategy and regular updates on a situation which has very quickly spiraled out of control and has the entire community concerned. Get your collective heads out of the sand!

Overwhelm the taxpayers with information and updates. Tell us all about the important actions you’ve taken with the County. Have you met face to face with Picinni about this – what was his response? What about P. Lawrence – what did he commit to? Have you tried to schedule time with Doug Ford and were you successful? Have you reached out to the PM? Did you receive a response in any way from the office of the PM? Are any you part of a specific task force with a singular and specific focus – what are the objectives of the task force and how is it performing against the objectives? etc. etc. etc…..

KalaM
Reply to  Rob
4 months ago

Rob, totally agree with all your comments. The mayor and council are responsible to represent the public and to consider the well-being and best interest of the municipality. They are to act as representatives both within and outside the municipality. So, they have a responsibility and should speak to the MP,MPP and Doug Ford.
The mayor cannot take a step back from this issue since the majority of the people affected are the taxpayers of Cobourg and we all deserve better. It appears the mayor is showing poor leadership and not willling to address the elephant in the room.

Kevin
Reply to  KalaM
4 months ago

The “No Trespassing” signs might be for legal reasons. By not removing the ‘campers’ maybe there is some kind of implied permission to use the land. If somebody tries to cross the fence and is injured that person might be in a position to sue the owner of Brookside for an unsafe condition causing injury. I do not make the laws, this is just speculation. It would be interesting to get a lawyers opinion. Some of the ‘campers’ used to live in a rooming house. The town is paying for cleaning up the garbage around at least one of the closed rooming houses, likely both. Anybody living near these houses knows how much garbage accumulates around these type of residences, including ones on John St. There is a video of stuff left behind when the encampment moved from 600 William. Personally I am surprised at how little garbage there is around the Brookside encampment, based on the view from the sidewalk.

Rational
Reply to  Kevin
4 months ago

Someone on Cobourg Politic mentioned that volunteers to the enablers were cleaning up. Also they had knowledge of the hazmat guys coming so did an extra special clean up beforehand.

Kevin
Reply to  Rational
4 months ago

Rational, thanks for that. I think I saw the comment you are referring to and I got some laughs from comments about winter coming. With warm sleeping bags and enough clothes it is possible to sleep quite well in freezing weather. I have done it but would not want to do it all winter. People seem to forget how difficult things used to be. My father remembers a pail of water in the kitchen would have ice on it in the morning. To take a spouge bath you would first go out and pump water by hand, carry it in, heat it on a wood stove … you get the idea. This was luxury compared to how some of the native peoples had to live. Many of us, myself included, would not survive very long if we had to live in the Artic without modern clothing and equipment. The ‘campers’ will survive the winter. Some of the ‘campers’ like to wander around at night. Too bad they do not wander to one of the factories and do some paying work. Earning a living does wonders for your self esteem.

Kyle
Reply to  KalaM
4 months ago

An idea. Perhaps with all the money the police are making from criminal record checks they could rent the home beside the Judges that are letting all these repeat offenders out as a place for them to stay free of charge. They obviously do not feel threatened by them.

Sandpiper
4 months ago

Frustration !
Have you ever tried to reach his office or get a return call ?
Twice last we our group only got a recording stating there was no one available at this time ..
May be thats why they had some fellow pounding on their back door last week
or maybe thats why crimes are taking place right across the road on King or the new Legion
or in their own back yard .
Every department in this town has become frustrating No one ever answers the phones any more
reception excluded then you are passed to a message center .
Can’t wait for user pay

Tucker
Reply to  Sandpiper
4 months ago

I agree. Last Saturday night a car parked on the east side of our road at around 5 pm. That side is “no parking”, but they also parked the wrong way and very close to the corner. A fire truck or ambulance would never get through. I watched for a while to see if they were just picking up someone, but by 7, still there, by 10 still there. Now it’s very dark and anyone coming around the corner would not see the car or have room to miss it without hitting the cars parked legally on the west side but only because there is no room in their garage because it’s full of junk. I was informed earlier in the year that the Bylaw Dept. had hired more people and that they were available 24hrs a day. Tried calling the Bylaw 905-372-8380 number but no answer, tried the 905-372-6821 Police, got an answering machine which told me to press “2”, did, not in service at this time. The car finally left around midnight. You would think the actual owners of the home they were visiting would have told them of their error in parking!!! I never ever see any town Police cars or Bylaw cars patrolling the streets here. So, frustrating as it might be to get someone to help you, just keep a baseball bat in the closet, we do.

Rational
4 months ago

While Mr. Vandegraaf expresses frustration I hope he recognizes the frustration Cobourg residents have. This article was just posted on Todays Northumberland.

https://todaysnorthumberland.ca/2023/10/02/busy-times-at-cobourg-encampment/

It shows the Province sending in a crew to clean up after the encampment residents – basically a maid service. And while it says the CPS officers there for this will be paid by the Province it is still the tax payer who has to pay.

Also, why post no trespassing signs on the fenced off areas. Is Leaderships saying the open area is all yours to the residents?

No porta potties seen anywhere – where are they going to the bathroom? The creek? Surely By- Law can stop that Mr. Cleveland/Counsellors – it must be some kind of violation.

What a mixed up attempt by the Town, CPS, and the Province to make the optics look like they are dealing with this issue.

How much more bizarre is Cobourg going to get? How much worse is Cobourg going to get beyond what it has since November 2022 following the election.

Kevin
Reply to  Rational
4 months ago

Thanks for sharing the link. The guy in the disposable overalls was really looking for garbage. Some of it along the sidewalk and to the west of the creek likely has nothing to do with the encampment. Garbage can be dropped by pedestrians, thrown/blown out of cars or blown in from other locations. It was not much different than what I would do while walking my children to school. Of course I did not expect payment.

Maybe this was “a mixed up attempt … to make the optics look like they are dealing with the issue.” Maybe it was an excuse to get a close look at the tents to have a better idea how many people are really there. I have no idea.

I do know one of the closed properties has been cleaned up on the outside. At a cost to taxpayers, but maybe a lien can be placed on the property. I can understand the frustration of the police chief and other officials who have to deal with the same people dealing with the same behaviours time and time again. From my observations, the encampment looks like an orderly place to live compared to the 2 closed properties and other rooming houses. It is too bad more effort was not used to keep the properties in decent condition. Between them they would house maybe 10 people legally which would solve much of the problem. There are other rooming houses in town that are operated by responsible people and fill a need for low cost housing.

KalaM
4 months ago

Staying on Topic
Chief Paul VandeGraaf is citing case law in regards to a LOCAL BY-LAW in the city of Kitchener. The judge ruled that the legal remedies sought by the region of Waterloo went against the residents’ rights to life, liberty and security of the person because of the lack of shelter space in the Waterloo region. Media reports in Cobourg have stated shelter space was available and offered on several occasions.
In regards to the encampment at Brookside Youth Center, trespass orders were issued on Sept. 8 and 18th. It is our understanding this is not a not BY-LAW issue. It is a legal trespass order to vacate lands owned by the crown.
What would restrict the CPS from enforcing the trespassing order?

Sandpiper
Reply to  KalaM
4 months ago

Probably the same Lack of By Laws and Gumption that keep them from enforcing rules and
regulations against the use of Condos for Short Term Rentals and Private Profit Centers
now the Town wants to Charge a Accomodation Tax using our Buildings
Its the Towns own Personal application and interpretation of the existing rules
Cobourg by the Beach
Party Central Come On Down !

It could be the local Business driving Business and Marketing as in other Towns
like the Adds you see for Bigless of Bobcaygeon No one ever paid to promote my Business in the past .
Why these local Councilors feel the need to spend Tax Dollars on Marketing for King st
is beyond me . If you have a business or a Products that are worth having or in demand they the customer’s will come Provided you have parking

Pete M
Reply to  KalaM
4 months ago

Legal advice from consultation with lawyers as to liability is what is stopping enforcement.
There maybe behind the scenes discussions where the Police have asked the Provine to approach the Courts for an order, ordering the trespassers off the property?

Rational
Reply to  Pete M
4 months ago

Why did the County act in 2 weeks at 600 William Street and they appointed CPS as their Agent to enforce the eviction?

Pete M
Reply to  Rational
4 months ago

Because it was the County. The Province a different level of Government taking a different approach—aka government bureaucracy. Ford got hit hard on the greenbelt. Hes not ready to take another hit as being heartless with the homeless being put onto the street. Plus who knows what negotiations are going on behind the scenes between this group and the Province

Dave
Reply to  Pete M
4 months ago

Apparently it is up to Infrastructure Ontario Pete according to the article in Todays Northumberland. The head of that organization did not respond to the reporter’s inquiry.

Pete M
Reply to  Dave
4 months ago

Infrastructure Ontario is a Crown agency and trust me, given the sensitive political nature of this occupation, Infrastructure wont make a move without ” consulting” the Premiers office.

Informed
Reply to  KalaM
4 months ago

Bad press and appearing heavy handed is likely stopping them from acting. I suspect there are many back door conversations with lawyers. Too bad there seems to be a lot more politics then law enforcement.

Dave
4 months ago

A little off topic but I just read in Today’s Northumberland that an 18 year old daughter of a member of Council is regularly staying at the Encampment when she comes home for the weekend! Article is currently available for anyone who is interested in reading this astounding news. It does not state which council member. This certainly reflects the feeling of how seriously is this Council taking the issue!

Heartbroken in Cobourg
Reply to  Dave
4 months ago

I’m not sure if you have raised a teenager in today’s society. It’s not easy and trying to control one can do more harm than not. I don’t think it’s fair to comment on the situation of the family of someone you don’t know without knowing all the facts. I’m sure this councillor is heart-broken about the state of his daughter. Please don’t throw stones without knowing the truth.

Dave
Reply to  Heartbroken in Cobourg
4 months ago

Heartbroken – the daughter in question is staying there on her weekends home from school so in general in not homeless or by that description on drugs.
As to parents and their responsibilities it is unfortunate I see many who decided to forego marriage. lived together for a while then moved on to the next partner without regard for the well being of their children and others in no position to have children which somehow they thought was their right without regard of providing for those children. Sorry for your loss, I have no idea why your child/children went off the rails.

Kevin
Reply to  Heartbroken in Cobourg
4 months ago

You make a good point, Heatbroken, about not knowing the facts. Why would an 18 year old travels home to stay at an encampment? Does her boyfriend live there? I have no idea, but Cobourg is not the only encampment so why travel to this one to stay in a tent? Either because she knows somebody in the encampment or she is supporting them in some way is my guess. Maybe this daughter has issues with her parents and cannot stay in their home. But why travel to Cobourg to not stay with your parents? I have a tent I will gladly donate to this daughter if she wants to use it at her parent’s property. However, Heatbroken, you also state you are sure the councillor is heatbroken. If this is a fact you know information I do not or you are contradicting yourself. Perhaps the councillor is proud of his/her daughter for supporting those you live in tents.

Not knowing how many people are actually in need of housing is part of the problem. It seems this particular 18 year old has a place to live outside of Cobourg and maybe one in Cobourg with her parent(s). How many people living in the encampment really have no other options? Until we know we do not know the magnitude of the problem. Maybe the 18 year old is working as an undercover reporter to get information for an article or to provide information to council. Dave may deserve your criticism but is your comment any better?

Dave
Reply to  Kevin
4 months ago

I think not Kevin. I see too many parents abdicating responsibility. Growing up I would never have thought of disobeying my parents to pull such a move. Respect is a long nurtured requirement between child and parent. If it has not been established by age 18 then something is wrong – either too permissive or neglecting parenthood responsibility. That is the society we live in today.

Kevin
Reply to  Dave
4 months ago

What exactly do you ‘think not’ about Dave? If this 18 year old is disobeying her parents it is unlikely she returns to Cobourg on weekends to spend time with them. I think we agree this student should not be included in the count of who is really homeless. How many are really homeless? Nobody knows or they are not saying. I would like to know how many people are actually in need of housing and for those who have options to stay out of the way of people doing their jobs helping those in real need.

Dave
Reply to  Kevin
4 months ago

Kevin – “Dave my deserve your criticism” On the other side I have already stated I did not believe she was homeless or a drug user.

marya
Reply to  Kevin
4 months ago

Wouldn’t You say, Kevin, that the numbers at the encampment are intentionally being overstated or held to be steeped in mystery in order to justify the case for sleeping cabins, or whatever, which will again be the predictable core of the agenda at the October 10th meeting at the CCI?

Your assumption of the 18 Year Old staying at the encampment on the weekends is highly likely. She could be researching for a typical University assignment related to Sociology, Psychology or Social and Cultural Anthropology.

Sandpiper
Reply to  Dave
4 months ago

My Daughter who stays with us Said just wait til winter
or the Party supplies run out
Oh we have safe sites in Towwwwn

Frenchy
Reply to  Dave
4 months ago

Hey Dave, I couldn’t find that story on Today’s Northumberland site. Can you send a link please?

Dave
Reply to  Frenchy
4 months ago

Frenchy it was contained in the Editorial which is now down at the very bottom if this link does not work.
https://todaysnorthumberland.ca/2023/10/01/cobourg-chief-of-police-and-local-politicians-have-condemnation-for-the-justice-system/

Dave
Reply to  Frenchy
4 months ago

Wrong editorial Frenchy – it was there earlier today – don’t see a heading under Opinion where it should be listed if you can find a way to move around in that paper to find it.

Dave
Reply to  Dave
4 months ago

Went back to my set browser which messes up links Frenchy – it is under the Editorial “Editorial – Encampment Tour Makes Three Week Stop at Brookside Resort” which I got to by accessing first wrong editorial bottom of page then pressing on “next article” until I reached it after about 3 trys. Go to the bottom of the paper’s page and click on editor’s choice then move through.Here’s a link but it probably won’t work
Editorial – Encampment Tour Makes Three Week Stop at Brookside Resort

Frenchy
Reply to  John Draper
4 months ago

Thanks John, but that’s not it. Here’s the link to the editorial that mentions a Councillor’s 18 year old daughter.
https://todaysnorthumberland.ca/2023/10/01/editorial-encampment-tour-makes-three-week-stop-at-brookside-resort/

Dave
Reply to  Frenchy
4 months ago

Hi Frenchy – No John put his link at the bottom of the article at the top of this page. The other link was one I mistakenly put in. Indirectly you can reach the correct article I found but the link is better.

Sandpiper
4 months ago

Where are those Police of days before when I was in High school around here .
You were afraid to Offend Twice They were Rough and would chuck you in the Old Cobourg Jail
and forget you were even there for a few days .
There was no Catch and release back then
My Parents were pretty rough as well back when they had something to say up to the age of 21
I now believe I was raised the Wright Way

Informed
Reply to  Sandpiper
4 months ago

Every retired cop is surly shaking their heads and gratefull they don’t have to deal with this bs.

Kathleen
4 months ago

Colour me wrong but this seems to be a new revived Chief than that of the one who was condescendingly dismissing Cobourg citizens with their concerns back in the Spring at the Town Hall meeting?
Could it possibly be because sime of us are realizing that Cobourg would be just as efficently run under the OPP?Because, after all, Cobourg Police’s hands are tied.

Sandpiper
Reply to  Kathleen
4 months ago

No its just because one of his own experience what the public bo on a First hand basis
that officer is probably applying for PTSD disability as we speak

Dave
4 months ago

I think the solution is obvious. Next election don’t vote for the Federal Liberals who are passing all these Bills that kneecap dealing with the situation. The only reason they passed Bill C-48 which isn’t enough is the fact they are falling in the polls. They have heard the growing rumble of dissatisfaction and note the poll numbers. Myself I would never trust them again.

Rational
4 months ago

Based on Chief VanderGraaf’s comments his hands and CPS’s are fully tied and they can’t do anything until Laws/the System are changed. Mayor Cleveland and MP Lawrence echoed the same sentiments in the Pete Fisher interview Sept. 30th. They expressed frustration because they are not able to effectively carry out their responsibilities. Also, it seems the Encampment will remain even though Brookside has had to implement security measures. If CPS’s enforcement is restricted then I guess By-Law Enforcement is as well.

From Leadership’s comments Cobourg residents would appear to be in for a long and unhappy ride and at best will just have to put up with what is currently going on in Cobourg.

It follows then, with Cobourg’s protection and leadership services to residents being restricted/reduced, shouldn’t the Mayor/Council provide Cobourg taxpayers a tax reduction/rebate until such time as services are fully restored?

ken prue
4 months ago

Consider that Daniel Tyler Foden is crying out for the kind of help that only arrest and detention (jail) can provide. Our Courts must have the courage and compassion to incarcerate this man so he can get the help he requires and is probably pleading for. Better this than the possible death by police officer that a major, violent, transgressive crime and resist arrest could provoke. Let’s avoid inflicting trauma upon a dutiful police officer, his family and society at large. Our courts are broken. Fix them or the consequences will be grave. I believe in police. Ken Prue

Cathy
Reply to  ken prue
4 months ago

Prisons have now begun or will be starting safe injection sites, so how does this resolve the problem?

Ken Strauss
Reply to  Cathy
4 months ago

No release until “clean” for a year?

downtowner
Reply to  Ken Strauss
4 months ago

Also with that release, supported living going forward, part of that being attendance in abstinence programing.
Keep in thought that many of these individuals have damaged their capacity for making healthy choices and will quickly “return to the fold” and their previous associates where they feel acceptance for the lifestyle they have found with conceived “no rules”
Many are like children needing guidance, they are not like the several enabling groups would have us believe, capable of living on their own as adults….or else why are they asking for more when basics have been offered and many are unaccepting.
Personally, washed my share of dishes, swept floors, piled stock….earned my retirement.We all start somewhere

JimT
Reply to  Cathy
4 months ago

Why don’t all prisons have resident sniffer dogs and immediate confiscation of contraband instead?

Do prisoners have a right not to be subjected to such search tactics?

Laura
4 months ago

Our society as we know it has come to wall. The respect for the law & humanity is gone. We are an episode of “Lord if the Flies”. Our Judicial system has forsaken us. I know the problem with the shortage of tax dollars for Prisons, but if we do not remedy this there will be no society to pay the piper. Stop sending our tax dollars overseas & fix our problems in Canada

Bill Thompson
Reply to  Laura
4 months ago

Until more of tbe voting population get involved and stop the aim of the federal government trying to save the world and fulfil their obligation to the people of this country, nothing will change.
The writing is on the wall for what the present and future holds is if it remains as is.

Doug Weldon
Reply to  Laura
4 months ago

Doug Ford has a pile of money that he has held back for his friends. The homeless and drug addicts are not his friends !

Ken Strauss
Reply to  Doug Weldon
4 months ago

Doug, perhaps you are not aware that Ontario is expected to have a $2.2B deficit this year and has an accumulated debt of over $236B. That is, Ontario is spending $2.2B more in 2023 than they take in. How is a “pile of money” being “held back” when we’re having to borrow to fund what is being spent?

JimT
Reply to  Ken Strauss
4 months ago

So true. We actually have a “pile” of debt.

“The Ontario government debt consists of the liabilities of the Government of Ontario…Interest on the debt in 2019-20 was CDN$12.5 billion, representing 8.0% of Ontario’s revenue…”
— Wikipedia

That’s more than a billion (with a “B”) in interest expense every month – enough money to make millionaires of 1,000+ resident taxpayers every month, and getting worse as our debt accumulates.

cornbread
4 months ago

In the old days, Daniel perhaps would be taken out behind the barn and subsequently become a better citizen. Could be we need a few more barns in Cobourg.

NAI
Reply to  cornbread
4 months ago

I’m sure the Cobourg Planning Department will find ways to say no to that.

Matt
4 months ago

Incarceration of criminals is very expensive. Considering the endless whining about exorbitant taxes we see on here, where exactly do you all expect that money to come from.

Our intrepid tax-fighters are just as much, if not more to blame for this situation than the “liberal left.”

Ahewson
Reply to  Matt
4 months ago

Come on now. Haven’t you heard right wingers banging on tables talking about being “tough on crime”. That’s all it takes to solve the problem.

Ken Strauss
Reply to  Matt
4 months ago

Matt, incarceration need not be especially expensive. In many places those incarcerated are encouraged to work at community service jobs to help fund their stay.

Sandpiper
Reply to  Ken Strauss
4 months ago

Like the Chain Gangs of Old
I would see them along the Highways all the time in the USA
Productive and earn Your Keep

Ken Strauss
Reply to  Sandpiper
4 months ago

Earn your keep and get healthful, open air, exercise!

Matt
Reply to  Ken Strauss
4 months ago

Forced-labour camps…what a wonderful vision you have for this country, Ken.

Do you get all warm and tingly when you imagine swinging that whip?

downtowner
Reply to  Matt
4 months ago

I read “encouraged to work at community service jobs” in Ken’s comment.
We all know History reveals mistakes made in programs, policies and procedures, aimed at correcting wrongs and improving lives for others.
Addiction and mental health left untreated or counselled amplifies and the capacity for self direction for an individual diminishes. Intervention is required to help in recovery and a path toward improved existence needs to be developed.
Engagement and easement toward independence may involve introduction to what many may view as menial tasks however are they more or less rewarding than collecting bottles and cans or stealing for spending money.

Ken Strauss
Reply to  Matt
4 months ago

Matt, do you get all warm and tingly stepping over used needles in our parks? Do you get all warm and tingly when you hear of assaults on homeowners, petty thefts and public defecation? Do you get all warm and tingly having your taxes spent on feeding, housing and providing repeated EMS visits to those who refuse to work at the numerous Northumberland jobs that go unfilled?

Informed
Reply to  Matt
4 months ago

I do. The bleeding hearts are part of the problem and it started years ago.

NAI
Reply to  Matt
4 months ago

Incarceration in the short term may be expensive but when you look at the longer term costs given a more effective deterrent, it probably comes in cheaper in the long run.

But the liberal left only looks as far as their nose, so no point trying to beat that drum.

Reap what you sow, and boy are we reaping now.

Jade
5 months ago

Blame the damn visiting judges. If we had our own that knew the towns criminal it may be different. Don’t blame CPS. They do their job. Can u imagine being a cop ?

Cobourg Taxpayer
5 months ago

I am frustrated with CPS and CPSB as in many situations the laws that do exist are not enforced. Why are the eviction notices at Brookside not being enforced? Also the decriminalization of illegal drugs was endorsed/requested by the Canadian and Ontario Associations of Chiefs of Police as “harm reduction measure” how’s that working out? One can be arrested for alcohol intoxication and consumption but not illegal drugs. I agree catch and release is prevalent but there are many advocates and human rights lawyers who claim jail time doesn’t work. It seems this country/province/town have gone so far left and permissive thanks to the Canadian and Ontario human rights codes allowing everyone to have personal rights above and beyond the “common good”.

Sonya
Reply to  Cobourg Taxpayer
5 months ago

Well said!

Liz
Reply to  Sonya
4 months ago

Amen

Chief Paul VandeGraaf
Reply to  Cobourg Taxpayer
4 months ago

Good morning. Let’s just take a moment to look at fact and not spread misinformation. There has been public communication about the issues surrounding the chronic displacement of encampments. Trust me if it were as easy as enforcing a trespass order, it would have been done. As you are aware, the Cobourg Police Services Board (CPSB) has no operational role, so it has nothing to do with that Board. Second, as Chief I ensure our team conduct themselves within in the rule of law which includes, common law, legislation and CASE LAW. The Waterloo decision is such case law. The Province is conducting its due diligence and will act when appropriate in relation to Brookside. In relation to drug policy, the CACP or OACP do not create law. Their role of advocacy, as in your example, is far more detailed than you have boiled it down to. Indicating that my staff are choosing not to do something undermines the great work they do. We are doing what we can where we can. I have added links to fact for your reference. Again, and as always, feel free to come and see me, let me buy you a coffee, and I will engage this conversation in great detail with you.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitchener-waterloo/region-of-waterloo-encampment-ruling-no-appeal-1.6758051

https://omssa.com/blog-waterloo-encampment-decision-may-2023.php

Paul

Jade
Reply to  Chief Paul VandeGraaf
4 months ago

Glad you came in here Chief. Iv spoke to you many times.. not under this name of course, but you know I back you and your officers. You are limited to what the CPS can do and you must stay within the law yourselves. I absolutely back you 100 % and understand the stress and struggle you deal with daily. Iv had many issues myself with criminal activity and you and your officers have been there every time I need to speak. The residents are up in arms over crime here , but if they think you are not doing the proper thing , well I guess they haven’t looked into the law far enough. As I have said many times.. I would not want to be a cop and I sure as hell would not want your job. Those residents that hold CPS accountable just don’t get it. Probably never will.

Informed
Reply to  Chief Paul VandeGraaf
4 months ago

A lot of good information Chief. I would suggest that your PIO works a little harder to get this information out to the public at large. Once the public looses confidence in the police it will be hard to get it back. There is also the danger of officers suffering from burnout when they also see their efforts lost as a result of the court system. I’m hearing people state that they are having people in their yards and property stolen and aren’t even calling the police because they believe it won’t make a difference. People in this town are pissed and looking for someone to blame

Dave
5 months ago

There is a start with the passing of Bill C-48. Bail Reform. Passed recently it is to strength conditions to deny bail to violent offenders placing the onus on them as to why they should be released especially for violent re-offenders.

Bill Thompson
Reply to  Dave
4 months ago

So…Bill C-48 passed recently …..active immediately then or…….?.🤔

Dave
Reply to  Bill Thompson
4 months ago

It is limited Bill. Requiring two violent offences to be considered on bail.

Here is a link
https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/csj-sjc/pl/pcscbs-cprslscc/index.html

Bill Thompson
Reply to  Dave
4 months ago

Shame their victim(s) don’t have an option !