Council to Consider Extending Beach Closure

Earlier in the summer, and after a lot of discussion, Cobourg Council closed the main beach until 31 August.  But that date is coming up soon and at their Committee of the Whole (COW) meeting on 24 August, an Agenda item asks Council whether they want to extend that date or not.  Four options are offered by staff: 1) Extend closure to 17 October; 2) Keep beach closed only on weekends to 17 October; 3) extend closure only until after Labour Day and re-open 8 September OR 4) another option determined by Council.  In each case, there will be no lifeguards and washrooms will remain closed but port-o-potties will be available.  I’d be surprised if there are no citizen delegations on the subject.

Cobourg Beach - 1 Aug 2020
Cobourg Beach – 1 Aug 2020

The memo from staff points to some things to consider:

  1. Status of Pandemic: Although the Town of Cobourg is now in Stage 3 of the Government of Ontario’s Framework for Reopening Our Province, restrictions and safety precautions remain in place and the community must remain vigilant in its efforts to combat the pandemic and to prevent a second wave.
  2. Demand: This year, Labour Day falls on September 7, a full week after the end-date of the Cobourg Beach closure. Traditionally, the Labour Day weekend is not one of the busier weekends for Cobourg Beach, although the weather and temperature certainly influence the number of visitors – plus families will be focused on the return-to-school process potentially reducing the demand on Cobourg Beach during the first week of September.  Furthermore, demand during the week is generally much lower than weekends and declines further throughout September and October.
  3. Lifeguards: The Town’s contract with the YMCA for lifeguarding services usually extends through the Labour Day long weekend. This year with the Beach closure, lifeguarding services were not initiated and it is not practical or financially viable to provide them for September even if Council chooses to re-open the Beach on September 1st.
  4. Washrooms: The washroom building will remain closed for the season but the existing port-o-potties will be maintained.

No explanation is given as to why 17 October was chosen but it’s the first Saturday after Thanksgiving.

The decision made by Council would be ratified at the next regular Council meeting which is on 31 August.  However, once decided at a COW meeting, ratification is usually (but not always) just a formality.  In any case, the decision will be reported on Cobourg News Blog – probably as an Addendum with notification in the News Update box.

Links

  • Beach closed until August 31  1 June 2020. There was later discussion about reopening before 31 August but on 29 June, Council confirmed their original decision.

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Frenchy
Reply to  Wally Keeler
25 August 2020 12:33 pm

I especially liked the objective, non-biased questions asked by Ms. Ugolini. (sarcasm intended)🙄

Frenchy
24 August 2020 9:08 pm

Personally, I was with Councillor Burchat on this one.

Frenchy
23 August 2020 1:30 pm

I just voted 3 times over at Northumberland News on their beach open/close poll.
https://www.northumberlandnews.com/news-story/10143960-take-our-poll-cobourg-council-to-discuss-possible-reopening-of-victoria-beach/
How accurate can the results be?

Susie-Q
Reply to  Wally Keeler
21 August 2020 2:52 pm

Oh brother. It is about limiting the spread. IMO, smart decision on the town’s part and good for them for listening to the residents as well. This is nothing to laugh at. One summer without the beach is not the end of the world.

jimq
Reply to  Wally Keeler
21 August 2020 3:49 pm

What a pack of incorrect information this bimbo writes. Wally of course thinks it’s wonderful.

As mentioned before in other posts, the mayor and council acting on the wishes of the citizens of Cobourg (and their own investigations) unanimously voted to close the beach. 80% of Cobourg residents had requested that Victoria Beach be closed for the season.

Rob
Reply to  jimq
21 August 2020 3:53 pm

JimQ just because you say it, it doesn’t make it true.

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Rob
21 August 2020 8:54 pm

That;s right Rob, his malicious slur asserting that I think that video was wonderful speaks more about JimQ’s integrity.

Last edited 1 month ago by Wally Keeler
Fact Checker
Reply to  jimq
21 August 2020 4:36 pm

Incorrect information absolutely jimq. Especially your claim of 80% of Cobourg residents. What is the source of your information?

jimq
Reply to  Fact Checker
21 August 2020 5:31 pm

“Incorrect information absolutely jimq. Especially your claim of 80% of Cobourg residents. What is the source of your information?

Keep reading – you’ll find it.

Fact Checker
Reply to  jimq
21 August 2020 6:39 pm

You wrote in reply to Wally “….80% of Cobourg residents had requested that Victoria Beach be closed for the season…” At face value then, you claim that about 15,520 (19,400 x 80%) Cobourg residents requested the beach be closed. Your claim is absurd and several commenters have challenged you on this and requested your source. You have so far failed to provide one.. You wrote in your Aug 19 reply to Ben “… Mayor John Henderson said that in the past week it was the busiest he had ever been as Mayor with 320 phone calls and emails…John estimated that 20% of those communicating with him wanted to limit the beach to just locals and 80% wanted the beach fully closed….” Is this the “source” that you feel supports your 80%? It is very clear that Mayor Henderson is referring to the 320 calls/emails he received. 80% is 256 which is not remotely close to 80% of Cobourg residents. So, once again jimq, what is your source? It’s a straight forward simple question. Snarky “answers” like the one you made in your Aug 21 comment do nothing to advance the discussion and only served to make you look foolish and not… Read more »

Last edited 1 month ago by Fact Checker
Wally Keeler
Reply to  jimq
21 August 2020 8:57 pm

I found your malicious lie about me.

Wally Keeler
Reply to  jimq
21 August 2020 8:51 pm

Wally of course thinks it’s wonderful.”

That is a lie. So that makes you a …

Informed
Reply to  Wally Keeler
22 August 2020 10:58 am

Cant see why Global news or CNN never picked up on this. No thanks. Ill get my news by the reading the Enquirer 🥴

Wally Keeler
19 August 2020 1:07 pm
Merry Mary
Reply to  Wally Keeler
19 August 2020 1:21 pm

Pathetic.

jimq
Reply to  Wally Keeler
19 August 2020 2:32 pm

That act of total stupidity was all planned in advance. Pete Fisher had been given advance notice of it, and was there to “report” as well. The dork in the suit and his girlfriend, who were doing the video for Rebel, had arranged with the local nut bar in advance to go on the beach. Of course he was charged with trespassing ($65 fine), but since he initially refused to identify himself and started walking away from police, he was arrested for “failing to identify”. This is a $750 minimum fine which was put into effect way back when the initial COVID-19 Emergency Powers were enacted. Once he did identify himself, the fail to identify charge was dropped.

Our police have much better things to do than babysit the COVIDIOTS!

Pathetic and disgusting!

Merry Mary
Reply to  jimq
19 August 2020 3:57 pm

Obviously staged events, and my 12 year old Grandchild asked me, “Why are those people intentionally taunting the Police Officers?!”

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Merry Mary
19 August 2020 10:00 pm

Because the police officers (count them all) deserved to be taunted for this overkill and the cop that made the decision that a ludicrously large display of police power was called for, for, for what immense crime?

Merry Mary
Reply to  Wally Keeler
19 August 2020 10:52 pm

Look beyond the videos at the real pictures.

Wally Keeler
Reply to  jimq
19 August 2020 9:57 pm

Our police have much better things to do than babysit the COVIDIOTS!”

Exactly, but our cops are the idiots. Look at how many officers were on scene, as if it were the crime of year. What cop made the decision that such pettiness was worth wasting all that tax money and personnel?

Audrey
Reply to  Wally Keeler
23 August 2020 8:41 am

I hope karma doesn’t come around if you ever have a to call the police, Wally.

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Audrey
23 August 2020 12:13 pm

Karma doesn;t exist Audrey.

Audrey
Reply to  Wally Keeler
23 August 2020 8:03 pm

I believe there is hope for you Wally….take time to look within!

Audrey
Reply to  jimq
23 August 2020 11:31 am

Let’s not lose sight of the name “Rebel News”….that says it all.

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Audrey
23 August 2020 1:04 pm

Absolutely, rebels are bad compared to the more preferable and good conformists

SW Buyer
Reply to  Audrey
23 August 2020 10:25 pm

Sure it was a staged event. Most video news coverage is. It was quite clear and Rebel News made no attempt to hide it. Some questions: Why were there so many cops (10 or so)? Were the cops in on the “news event” and provided a show of force? If not, why did the cops take the bait? Surely a couple of cops could handle half a dozen “non-violent” (no evidence of violence or intent to be violent) “protesters” It was clear that the “protesters” were in the water, out of the Town’s jurisdiction. The “ankle deep” criteria is totally bogus. You’re either in the water or not. They entered the water from the East Pier, not the Beach. One chap did go onto the beach and was “ticketed” He was arrested when he started to walk away without identifying himself to the bylaw officers/police. Canadian Charter of Rights, Sections 9 & 10 provide that he doesn’t have to identify himself to police. The Charter trumps provincial law and Town bylaw Why wouldn’t the cops tell the guy why he was being arrested? The arrest charge(s) were dropped shortly afterwards. Was this part of the staged event? Or were the… Read more »

Last edited 1 month ago by SW Buyer
jimq
Reply to  SW Buyer
24 August 2020 6:00 am
SW Buyer
Reply to  jimq
24 August 2020 9:02 am

The Charter is federal law. The emergency order is provincial law. Fed trumps provincial.
The fact that the Ontario Government says something is law does not necessarily make it so. The challenges in court by the Canadian Civil Liberties Association and others have yet to be heard. The court will decide what is “law” and what isn’t.

Bill Thompson
Reply to  SW Buyer
24 August 2020 9:40 am

Charter of “Rights”….well known by all chapter and verse and demanded .
What about “Responsibilities” ….not so much included in the equation these days.
It’s all about “me ..me”

Merry Mary
Reply to  SW Buyer
24 August 2020 8:28 am

Anyone who witnessed the events from the East Pier and from behind the Beach’s Fence, away from the lenses of the cameras, had full clarity of the rebels.

SW Buyer
Reply to  Merry Mary
24 August 2020 9:11 am

What did those with “full clarity” learn/conclude about the Canadian Charter of Rights and riparian rights? Did they also learn if the Town owns the land under the water at Victoria Beach? What evidence was provided?. What did they learn/conclude about democracy and the role of civil disobedience? Or did they just make some unsupported assumptions?

Merry Mary
Reply to  SW Buyer
24 August 2020 11:51 am

We learned that the upcoming days in the Courtroom will be fascinating.

Informed
Reply to  Wally Keeler
19 August 2020 6:59 pm

Covid kooks wasting cops time and resources

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Informed
19 August 2020 10:00 pm

It was the cops themselves that chose to waste their time and our tax money. Count the ludicrous number of officers on hand for the crime of the year. THEY are the idiots.

Informed
Reply to  Wally Keeler
20 August 2020 7:03 am

The police dont have the luxury to pick and choose which laws to enforce and the calls to disregard. That is the reason their time was wasted. Covid kooks. Same ones that likley wont wear a mask.

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Informed
20 August 2020 10:36 am

They do have the luxury of sending the entire police force for an active shooter, but this was an ankle deep offence. I’ll bet that fewer police are sent to a domestic violence dispute than were sent en mass to the beach for the severe violence of “Hey you, you’re busted for touching dry sand with your foot.” The whole deal could have been dealt with by two cops, not the entire force. What a waste of taxpayers money!

Sam
Reply to  Informed
20 August 2020 1:09 pm

Unfortunately the cops do pick and choose!
Guess you have little knowledge. Some of us have experienced Police selectivity!
They should not but they do.

Informed
Reply to  Sam
20 August 2020 1:27 pm

And im sure there are many more that were impressed with the service. Maybe you are the type to think think any issue you have is the most importnant issue at the time?

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Informed
23 August 2020 1:08 pm

The police have told me themselves that they have a wide range of discretionary power, collectively and individually. Ten cops was stupid overkill. The cops are responsible for the overkill.

Kyle
Reply to  Wally Keeler
24 August 2020 5:53 pm

“Our tax money”? You realize that municipal policing is pretty much funded by property tax assessments.

Audrey
Reply to  Wally Keeler
23 August 2020 8:38 am

When there are clear signs that entrance to the beach is restricted, why would these individuals enter? THEY DID IT SPECIFICALLY TO AGITATE AND CAUSE A SCENE. So you ask why so many police officers? That’s why. Take a look at what’s going on in the United States and see how quickly crowds can turn on police. How do you think the situation would have resulted if there was one officer? Armchair quarterbacks everywhere. As a wife of a police officer, every one of the disregarded comments below makes me want to vomit.

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Audrey
23 August 2020 1:11 pm

Go ahead and vomit. What is happening in the US has no application whatsoever towards the Cobourg police in this instance. Your paranoia and fear mongering make me want to vomit in your soup.

Audrey
Reply to  Wally Keeler
23 August 2020 7:58 pm

You want to vomit in my soup? That’s rich lol. What is paranoid and fear-mongering about voicing concern over the state of affairs to the south of us? The kind of mentality at work in the US is possible here as well, the genesis of which was evident in the behaviour of that baffoon trespassing on the beach. It was meant to incite, pure and simple.

Are_n
18 August 2020 1:56 pm

I’m guessing the 17th was chosen as the trailer park will likely be closed after Thanksgiving. Not sure when the boats go out of the harbour but I’m assuming it’s about that time as well.

Rational
18 August 2020 11:39 am

Cobourg (and the surrounding community) have remained safe with a low risk profile to Covid 19 primarily due to the beach being closed. This decision has kept Cobourg relatively confined to residents only, who by all appearances take this matter seriously.

Schools are set to open in a few weeks, which will bring a completely new risk to Covid 19 transmission and the risk profile to children, parents, etc. What we do not need now is to give an open invitation for increased outside tourist/traffic that could negatively impact Cobourg, the community and students with respect to Covid 19 transmission.

My view is that the beach should remain closed for 2020.

beach lover
Reply to  Rational
18 August 2020 12:08 pm

How do you make the leap in logic that closing the beach has reduced C-19 in Cobourg? Even the poster child for crowded beaches — Wasaga Beach — hasn’t reported a single case of COVID-19 since June 19 even though they’re open to locals and tourists. There has never been an influx of crowds in Cobourg after Labour Day. There are more crowds at Walmart or the Dollar store!

Mrs. Anonymous
Reply to  Rational
21 August 2020 9:53 pm

Rational: Correlation is not causation.

This is a fairly obvious point to anyone with rudimentary statistical training.

It’s frankly alarming that so many people would agree with what is a painfully obvious erroneous conclusion. It does however explain how the government paid media has been able to foment Covid hysteria.

Concerned citizen
18 August 2020 11:22 am

In spite of the chaos & tragedy Covid has taken on our day to day lives, Cobourg residents have enjoyed their park and waterfront.
Never seen so many locals enjoying the park. Artists, seniors, knitters, coffee groups or just visiting with friends and family. Many locals, who would never use the park due to overcrowding from “tourists” have commented on how nice it was to visit their park.
Until the pandemic is over, please do the right thing and keep the beach closed to protect our community.
If council intends to continue promoting “tourism” when that time comes ..let’s at least get some revenue from it!

beach lover
Reply to  Concerned citizen
18 August 2020 11:56 am

Cobourg residents can continue to enjoy their knitting and coffee group visiting within the park even if the beach is reopened. What will change is that Cobourg children who have been shut out of Victoria Beach will finally be able to enjoy it – safely and without the crowds of summer. Not every Cobourg family is privileged enough to be able to drive to one of the other open beaches in the province. It’s worth thinking about those less fortunate than ourselves.

Conor
Reply to  Concerned citizen
24 August 2020 5:54 pm

I know the people of Cobourg are having issues thinking that “out of towners” are going to ruin the beach.I grew up in Cobourg but have since moved away and I suppose that I could be considered an “out of towner” myself. I have an answer to keep these people away that I think would work quite well. Change the name of Cobourg Beach to Covid Beach.

Old Sailor
18 August 2020 9:30 am

I agree with those who say lets keep the beach closed until the town can come up with a plan to manage the influx of non-resident beach users, make the beach a break even proposition for the town and in effect compel non-residents to have to spend money in town. Perhaps enforce permit parking only on weekends on residential streets. No more non-resident wall to wall free parking on residential streets. Perhaps a $50 per car non-resident beach access fee which includes receiving $25 of Cobourg shopping coupons. We should be taking the time to plan out 2021 and beyond for Victoria Park. Not just succumbing to a few squeaky wheels who want the beach reopened as soon as possible. They are not representative of the majority of taxpayers . If and when COVID 19 passes the above problem will still be there unless we solve it now. I am sure there are lots of other suggestions that could be considered. Perhaps a Cobourg real referendum over the winter?

cornbread
Reply to  Old Sailor
18 August 2020 10:13 am

User Pays…Coburg taxpayers are already paying…Now is our opportunity to think about and do something at last to get the outside visitors t pay their fair share in addition to parking charges for park and beach access.

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Old Sailor
18 August 2020 12:02 pm

“…in effect compel non-residents to have to spend money in town.” That’s right, let’s stiff those OUTSIDERS for whatever we can get. Those include the Cobourg families, whose children have left Town to seek their living elsewhere and who return on weekends to be with their families, bringing the grandchildren to see grandparents, and paying a small fortune every visit to the beach. Stiff it to them. Why should Cobourg residents have to pay for the upkeep of the beach when we can stiff outsiders to pay for it. Of course, it is a public beach but that doesn’t mean the Town cannot set it up very similar to free enterprise, business-like. The fence will factor in with two, three or four entrance points where cash can be paid, or machines set up for plastic cards and they can have their hands stamped with ink acknowledgement, otherwise, how will we know if they have already paid whenever they leave the beach to go to the canteen or go their parked car for some item (suntan lotion) they left behind on their long walk to the beach. The entrance points will have to be operated by humans, who in turn will… Read more »

Frenchy
Reply to  Wally Keeler
18 August 2020 1:22 pm

This is awesome! Pure gold.

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Frenchy
19 August 2020 1:09 pm

Jeez, I go away for a day and look what happens. Smells like sincerity. Thank you very much.

Frenchy
Reply to  Wally Keeler
19 August 2020 2:49 pm

I guess I was right all along… sarcasm doesn’t translate well in text. I guess I should have said pure “Keeler” gold.

Last edited 1 month ago by Frenchy
Wally Keeler
Reply to  Frenchy
19 August 2020 10:02 pm

Even more valuable because it bears a real name, rather than pseudogold aka fool’s gold.

Last edited 1 month ago by Wally Keeler
Conor
Reply to  Old Sailor
21 August 2020 3:41 pm

First of all I don’t need your beach. Now you want to compel me to spend money. How would you know if my car is non-resident in order to charge me $ 50.00. I sorry to inform you that Cobourg is the laughing stock of Ontario. No other town has shut down their beach that I know of. By the way that ecoli problem in the west end must have been created by locals not “out of towners”

Informed
Reply to  Conor
21 August 2020 7:43 pm

You seem to know alot about Cobourg and the beach. You seem to be the tyoe of person that wants a free ride. Hopefully a user fee will encourage you to use a local beach where you live

Merry Mary
Reply to  Conor
23 August 2020 6:59 am

Not “Out of Towners?”

There were many vehicles-towing boats-who were parked at Cobourg’s motels, hotel and inns, and there were vehicles with licence plates from Quebec and Alberta that have parked in the Marina Parking Lot. Cobourg is not the laughing stock of Ontario.

Last edited 1 month ago by Merry Mary
Audrey
Reply to  Conor
23 August 2020 8:45 am

I hear Wasaga beach is open. Why all the anxiety when you can freely visit there?

Tracy
18 August 2020 8:58 am

Why would Council change their minds now?! 😩 We have had such low numbers due in part that we haven’t had many visitors who might have brought Covid to town. Let it ride, Council. Let’s hope next year brings much different news and health for all.

Rob
Reply to  Tracy
18 August 2020 10:26 am

Tracy – Fewer than 5,000 active cases in a country of almost 38 million people (10 million sq. km) and with the entire country (essentially) in Stage 3 Reopening. You can gamble in a casino, attend school, move into a post-secondary dorm, work out at the gym, go to a pool, visit a museum, eat in a restaurant, get a tattoo/massage/teeth cleaned, shop in any store, host 100 people outdoors but you can’t walk across our sand beach? Do you really think not reopening our beach is what is keeping us safe right now?

beach lover
Reply to  Rob
18 August 2020 10:43 am

Exactly! There will be no crowds on the beach after the Labour Day weekend so the fear-mongering about contracting COVID-19 outdoors on Victoria Beach ( which has a much lower risk than any indoor activity) should end.

Paul Pagnuelo
Reply to  beach lover
18 August 2020 12:01 pm

The Beach should remain closed until Council establishes a Task Force and approves a solution to charging and limiting the number of out-of-town beach tourists.

The locals want their beach back and have strong objection to subsidizing the beach for those use it for free and crowd out those of us who pay the freight.

Those seeking re-election in 2022 would be wise to get onside with those who vote them into office. Residency in Cobourg should have exclusive benefits to those who live, shop and pay taxes here.

Residents know what is best for their town. Directors with grandiose plans better suited for a megacity are out of touch with local needs.

Time for everyone to speak up and share their vision for Cobourg with Council.

Last edited 1 month ago by Paul Pagnuelo
Wally Keeler
Reply to  Paul Pagnuelo
18 August 2020 12:17 pm

“…crowd out those of us who pay the freight.”

Yes, and when the outsiders pay for the freight, there will be that adage; who pays the piper calls the tune. Customer service. Run it like a business. Forget that the beach once served as a respite for those sick Irish immigrants who then moved north to Peterborough. Forget that the park and beach hosted sleepovers for men looking for work during the Great Depression. Forget the sleepovers of hippies travelling back and forth across Canada in the 60s. Those people are boomers now and they have a powerful affection for their public beach. When enough of them die off, the metropolis migrants will have enough local power to implement the policy of treating the park and beach like a business and set up fences and impose more rules and regulations as well as catering to the paying customers. Wow, what a fun time at the beach!



Frenchy
Reply to  Wally Keeler
18 August 2020 1:37 pm

“metropolis migrants”
You’re on it today Wally. Keep going.👍

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Frenchy
20 August 2020 1:13 pm

Why don’t you award me with a mediocre Heritage Awards Inc plaque?

cornbread
Reply to  Wally Keeler
18 August 2020 3:10 pm

Hi Wally
I’m going to save up a few bucks and buy you a nice “Stand” and put it in front of good old Victoria Hall so you can have the pulpit for Cobourg. When it comes to pleasure…User Pays.

Wally Keeler
Reply to  cornbread
19 August 2020 1:11 pm

Hi borndead
A few bucks will not suffice
to make a stand so so “nice”
suitable enough for ole Vicky Hall
but rather for Northumberland Maul.

I have had a pulpit for Cobourg for most of my life, not only free, but paid for by others. I made money for yapping off at the scorndreads in Cobourg: Cobourg Sentinel Star, Refraction, Phoenix, Cobourg Daily Star, Watershed, Sideroads, Hills Spirit II & III and a little book called Cobourg Is My Poem Town. That’s just the local pulpit, not the international pulpits I have enjoyed.

So tell me, mournhead, are you suffering from pulpit envy?

Audrey
Reply to  Wally Keeler
18 August 2020 5:50 pm

We’re long past the time of sick Irish immigrants and hippie sleepovers. We’re facing a rapid influx of out-of-towners who don’t appear to contribute to the local economy. We escaped the urban sprawl to come to Cobourg 10 years ago and the change in that time is shocking. As residents, we’re not in favour of our tax dollars paying to police and clean the beach for visitors. My daughter did a stint with a local groundskeeping company and she can attest to the waste that visitors leave behind, with very little regard to the impact on the community.

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Audrey
19 August 2020 1:54 pm

“We’re long past the time of sick Irish immigrants and hippie sleepovers.” Yes we are, not so much the hippies as they are still very much alive and retired in Cobourg. Your arrogant dismissive attitude towards Cobourg’s past is one thing that people born and raised here resent from the metropolis migrants. 10 years in Cobourg? How shallow. I was born and raised here and have more than 70 years under my bloated belt. I remember this Town as a town, when there were about 9000 souls. 70 years is not much, but I had parents and grandparents also born and raised in Cobourg. They took me to the park and beach and told me stories about the park in the 1930s, in the 1900s. They talked about the Americans that came every summer, but that’s history and you have already expressed your disdain for Cobourg’s history. “We’re facing a rapid influx of out-of-towners who don’t appear to contribute to the local economy. We escaped the urban sprawl to come to Cobourg 10 years ago and the change in that time is shocking.” Regardless of mere appearances, Cobourg did conduct a survey two years ago indicating that tourists do contribute… Read more »

Frenchy
Reply to  Wally Keeler
19 August 2020 2:52 pm

“I was born and raised here and have more than 70 years under my bloated belt.”
How many years did you live away from Cobourg?

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Frenchy
19 August 2020 10:10 pm

I lived in Toronto form 37 years and returned almost weekly to visit FAMILY and friends. The continuity is well established and I remained active in the community during those 37 years as numerous news articles in the local newspaper attest. Looking for an opening mon petit troll? Go ahead and make it as petty a troll as usual

Frenchy
Reply to  Wally Keeler
19 August 2020 11:34 pm

37 years in Toronto, anywhere else?

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Frenchy
20 August 2020 10:58 am

PRZT! The sound of Frenchy’s comment entering the atmosphere.

Informed
Reply to  Paul Pagnuelo
18 August 2020 5:13 pm

This could have and should have been addressed years ago. Anytime anyone mentioned it then the race card got tossed around to the point that no one would address it in fear of being labelled a racist.Its about recouping operating costs by charging a user fee to out of Town Residents. Now we have all winter to hammer out the details

Last edited 1 month ago by Informed
Wally Keeler
Reply to  Informed
19 August 2020 2:06 pm

I recall reading two or three letters to the editor of the Cobourg Daily Star back then and they were racist, a couple of them were clearly from metropolis migrants explaining that they wanted to escape Toronto’s diversity and they had to smell their bad cooking in the park thanks to tourists. .

Its about recouping operating costs by charging a user fee to out of Town Residents.”

It’s about stiffing the tourists to pay for their use of the park and/or beach to recoup operating costs, not only for their wear and tear, but also our wear and tear. That way we wonderful town’s people can enjoy a free ride at the expense of tourists. What a win win.

Out of Town residents include the people of Creighton Heights, all of the people of surrounding Hamilton Township. Those families have enjoyed this wonderful public park for free for generations, but now is the time to make them pay Pay PAY.

Informed
Reply to  Wally Keeler
20 August 2020 10:44 am

You’re 1st comment means nothing and is irrelevant. Nobody is stiffing anyone that chooses to come here and use the beach,knowing there is a fee. They themselves might even welcome a fee which should reduce numbers for everyone. If we could recoup some costs then maybe we can add to the kids playground or more sprinklers. Time to look ahead and accept change.

Informed
Reply to  Rob
18 August 2020 5:10 pm

What are the benefits of opening it now? Cobourg and its residents will survive without the beach this year. Just wait….summer will come again.

Rob
Reply to  Informed
19 August 2020 4:18 pm

It is a pretty exhaustive list of the many things we could survive without however the importance of those things are relative to the individual. For many residents the beach is of significant importance, it just isn’t for you.

Informed
Reply to  Rob
20 August 2020 9:52 am

I know…..thats why it was inportant that it was closed

Rob
Reply to  Informed
20 August 2020 1:39 pm

Head scratcher…but thanks.

Heather
Reply to  Tracy
18 August 2020 11:19 am

Totally agree. I doubt there would be huge crowds in Sept. Also the risk outdoors is extremely low. People spirits and mental health are important as well and being in nature helps with this.

Wally Keeler
Reply to  Heather
19 August 2020 2:13 pm

Right now is the peak performance of the Perseid Meteor showers. The Peterborough Examiner did a feature on the Cobourg hippie scene of young people laying on the beach at night to watch an annual cosmic phenom, but then again there is a curfew so those days of enjoyment are gone. I know residents who had taken a folding chair out on the pier to reduce lightwash to watch the meteor shower, but that cannot be done because of the bloated covid paranoids.

Informed
Reply to  Wally Keeler
21 August 2020 7:04 am

That was before cell phones,social media and video games
Those days are over. Im not saying that is a good thing either but we live in a different world. The beach is now for most people from the city to use for free and escape the rat race. The Town must also adapt.

Rob
Reply to  Informed
21 August 2020 10:39 am

Days before cell phones and social media were very good days…

Informed
Reply to  Rob
21 August 2020 1:04 pm

For sure

Rob
18 August 2020 8:34 am

I hope they choose to reopen the beach. The beach tourist season is essentially over leaving the opportunity to use the beach for (mostly) residents, school is starting again, we are in Stage 3 of our Provincial reopening plan, we have less than 40 people in hospital, fewer than 1000 active cases in the entire Province, etc…I don’t believe October 17 has any significance – cannabis other wise.

Dunkirk
18 August 2020 7:36 am

October 17th is a favourite local political anniversary…the legalization of Cannabis and the welcoming of ‘The World’s Largest Cannabis Production Facility’ to our ‘Feel Good Town’ in the former Kraft plant. 1500 jobs etc….

Our beach is a more historical and permanent asset and as such requires a more delicate and thoughtful debate. Our Council that has already flip-flopped on the issue once will not let facts get in their way this time around. They will keep it closed until the Cannabis Legalization anniversary and then send Special Constables to ensure nobody actually celebrates that anniversary with cannabis on the beach.

Cobourgienne
Reply to  Dunkirk
18 August 2020 10:34 am

Council never flip-flopped on this issue. In response to complaints, they put forward a motion to re-visit the question. This motion was struck down by a council which already had its mind fully closed to opening the beach. I expect little more from them this time. It is probably a mere exercise to make certain that the weather will be so cold no one would want to go in the water and would not come here for any reason. No longer a feel good town.

Last edited 1 month ago by Cobourgienne
jimq
Reply to  Cobourgienne
18 August 2020 11:56 am

You do remember that over 80% of Cobourg residents requested that the Mayor & Council close the beach? KEEP IT CLOSED ‘TILL OCTOBER.

ben
Reply to  jimq
18 August 2020 12:59 pm

This statement is FAKE News! 80% of an online poll, which was not filtered for nasty “outsiders” may have said Yes. Tell the truth 80% of 18,000 did not say yes to the petition. Where else did they say it – sources please!

Dubious
Reply to  ben
18 August 2020 10:07 pm

The poll participants DID give their location and name and only Northumberland residents were considered in the 80% result. Unlike the town’s Waterfront “Needs” survey!

Rob
Reply to  Dubious
19 August 2020 9:24 am

What 80% are you talking about – 1,200 people from Cobourg (~1,400 in Northumberland) responded. Not to mention the CTA had to apologize to Council for the language that was used in the survey itself. It was design to intentionally and deliberately strike fear into people and threaten Council. Meanwhile it would appear it really wasn’t about Covid at all, as evidenced in Paul and others recent comments on this thread. It was all about keeping out of town tourists away for a summer.

Bryan
Reply to  Rob
19 August 2020 11:31 am

Rob, You may disagree with Dubious, but please get your facts right. The CTA beach closure survey had a total of 1,662 names: Cobourg 1,370, Northumberland 241, other 51. The CTA did not HAVE to apologize to Council. There was no Council demand or request to do so. CTA president Nabieszko noted at Council that some people felt the petition wording was a bit harsh and that it could have been worded better. You, Rob, are not on the CTA executive, therefore have no insight or evidence that the petition was designed intentionally and deliberately to strike fear. This is pure speculation on your part. Similarly, the logic of your comment: …it would appear it really wasn’t about Covid at all, as evidenced in Paul and others recent comments on this thread. It was all about keeping out of town tourists away for a summer…. is seriously flawed. The main point is about C19. At the time, Toronto and the GTA were KNOWN C19 hot spots. The last thing Cobourg (and Northumberland) needed was 3,000 GTA beachers shoulder to shoulder on the beach on a hot summer’s weekend. There is ample evidence from Toronto’s beaches and parks as well as other… Read more »

Last edited 1 month ago by Bryan
Frenchy
Reply to  Bryan
19 August 2020 12:06 pm

While my opinions often line up with those of the CTA, I didn’t participate in the survey at all solely because of the (not just a bit) harsh wording.

Last edited 1 month ago by Frenchy
Wally Keeler
Reply to  Frenchy
19 August 2020 2:17 pm

That was my take as well.

Rob
Reply to  Bryan
19 August 2020 4:01 pm

Bryan, perhaps you can kindly explain the 80% comment that was made, since you appear to be in the loop. It isn’t that I just disagree with the comment that Dubious made – it simply isn’t true. Secondly it was Councillor Nic Bea who raised the concern that the language presented in the survey was considered harsh, prompting Nabieszko to immediately agree that the manner in which it was written was too harsh. I didn’t say demand (those are your words). It WAS designed to invoke fear in participants and it WAS designed to threaten Council with the responsibility of any future Covid related deaths should the beach remain open. I am quite capable of reading and therefore don’t need to be a member of the Executive to make that determination. Those words were chosen deliberately.   And finally, I am an employed, tax paying, home owning, beach going, shop local Cobourger and neither you or the CTA speak for me. So when you are referring to “Cobourgers” it is a limited group of residents, not all. There are currently, just as there were months ago, alternatives to the beach closure – they just weren’t part of the CTA’s agenda.… Read more »

Bryan
Reply to  Rob
19 August 2020 5:05 pm

jimq said 80%. I suggest you ask him. You say about the survey “…It WAS designed to invoke fear in participants and it WAS designed to threaten Council….Those words were chosen deliberately. ..: Where’s your proof? You were not part of the decision making. Your comment is pure speculation and assumption. It is, however, your opinion, unsupported and faulty. Own it.  You state: “I am quite capable of reading and therefore don’t need to be a member of the Executive to make that determination” Your ability to read is not in question, it is your ability to reach a conclusion. Without proof, which you don’t have, the best you can do is make an assumption and speculate. Neither I nor the CTA claim to represent the residents of Cobourg and “Cobourgers” is used as a generalised collective term; as you noted. The CTA took a position on an issue. What “agenda” are you referring to?  I’m not opposed to user pay in some fashion,I just don’t take it to the same exclusionist level as some contributors here. User Pay is not about exclusion. It is about the right and ability of an economic entity (yes, the Town is an economic entity,… Read more »

Sam
Reply to  Bryan
20 August 2020 1:30 pm

The CTA are a lobby group. Not a “bridge” party.
Of course the CTA have an Agenda. If not why do they exist?

Sam
Reply to  Rob
20 August 2020 1:27 pm

Rob extremely well said!

Audrey
Reply to  Bryan
19 August 2020 6:05 pm

Excellent summary, Bryan. Thank you.

Sam
Reply to  Bryan
20 August 2020 1:25 pm

Generally a load of rubbish in your post.
The CTA have an agenda and spun it well.

Bryan
Reply to  Sam
20 August 2020 3:08 pm

Generally a load of rubbish in your post.
The CTA have an agenda and spun it well.

Your opinion Sam, not fact. What exactly in my comment is rubbish and why?

What is the CTA’s agenda that you claim has been spun well. Why is bad that the CTA is skilled at what they do? Are you afraid of something the CTA does?

Rob
Reply to  Bryan
20 August 2020 5:10 pm

Hey Bryan the agenda includes – “close the beach for safety” and then later “keep the beach closed for safety” and now “keep the beach closed until we can figure out how to monetize it.” But I’m very sure you knew this already.

Bryan
Reply to  Rob
20 August 2020 6:44 pm

Rob: I suggest that each of those is a position on an issue, not an agenda. “…close the beach for safety…” That was the position taken and the petition was an action instrument used to help achieve that objective. What is your problem with that? “…keep the beach closed for safety…” A logical extension of the original position and totally consistent. Again, what is your problem with that? “…keep the beach closed until we can figure out how to monetize it….” Now this is new. A product of your fertile mind, perhaps. I am not aware that the CTA has proposed or endorsed this position. The two issues: resident safety and asset monetization, are quite different and the only commonality is that both concern the beach. Please provide examples of the CTA proposing or endorsing this “monetization agenda” As I understand it, the “Pay for Play” concept is not new. Other Ontario towns have controlled access of their beaches: locals have free access, others pay a fee. This is no different than paying to go skating at the CCC or attend a concert at the Victoria Concert Hall. Pay for Play is simply a user fee aimed at recovering costs… Read more »

Last edited 1 month ago by Bryan
Rob
Reply to  Bryan
21 August 2020 10:37 am

Bryan – Just curious, how many registered members does the CTA represent? Is this information made available to the general public?

Frenchy
Reply to  Rob
21 August 2020 10:44 am

Did Walter’s ears just perk up?

Rob
Reply to  Frenchy
21 August 2020 11:28 am

Oh so I’m guessing this question has been asked before?

jimq
Reply to  ben
19 August 2020 12:54 pm

Remember this? –

Council Listens to Public and Keeps Beach Closed 29 June 2020 John Draper
Hits: 2,154
As many as 311 people watched the Council make a final decision about the Beach – this compares to a normal audience of around 20. Mayor John Henderson said that in the past week it was the busiest he had ever been as Mayor with 320 phone calls and emails. He and other councillors thanked the public for their engagement. John estimated that 20% of those communicating with him wanted to limit the beach to just locals and 80% wanted the beach fully closed. He said that health and safety were more important than tourism or business. Other councillors gave more detailed reasons and there seemed to be some nervousness about how the vote would go since a recorded vote was requested. But in the end, it was unanimous —–

Last edited 1 month ago by jimq
Cobourgienne
Reply to  ben
20 August 2020 11:58 am

I agree with the FAKE news statement. We never even heard about the poll or the petition and the decision to close the beach was news to us.

Rob
Reply to  jimq
18 August 2020 2:21 pm

What a blatant and deliberate inaccuracy….laughable.

beach lover
Reply to  jimq
18 August 2020 6:04 pm

Completely laughable stat! Unlike Port Hope that has polled their citizens ( and advertised same in the Northumberland news) about what options they’d prefer regarding the crowds expected for salmon fishing season Cobourg relied entirely on a survey that only a select few even saw. They’ve made no effort to ask again.

jimq
Reply to  jimq
19 August 2020 12:48 pm

My apologies -sorry – duplicate post. .

Last edited 1 month ago by jimq
Sam
Reply to  jimq
20 August 2020 1:22 pm

I thought the petition was signed “on line” (if this can be done) by about 1100 actual “residents”. Did not know 80 % signed or requested. That would be in the order of 17,000 people.
I don’t know anyone who was asked.
Please do NOT misstate facts in this debate.

Audrey
Reply to  Dunkirk
18 August 2020 4:42 pm

Can someone educate me on the policy for council making these decisions?

beach lover
Reply to  Audrey
18 August 2020 6:09 pm

They listen to the loudest voices of the mostly white and wealthy privileged few and take the actions they think will rock the fewest boats. Unlike other communities, in Cobourg there’s little attempt at citizen engagement when it actually matters.

Audrey
Reply to  beach lover
18 August 2020 7:36 pm

oh boy lol

Bryan
Reply to  beach lover
19 August 2020 8:53 pm

I agree that the Town could do more in regards to citizen engagement. That has been an ongoing CTA theme That said, citizens are not up in arms and manning the picket lines. Cobourgers (for the most part) seem content with the status quo, so why would you expect the Town (staff/Council) to rock the boat?

JimT
17 August 2020 11:51 pm

A beach town with no beach. How sad!

SWbuyer
Reply to  JimT
18 August 2020 12:19 am

A beach town (or any town) without C19. How wonderful

Last edited 1 month ago by SWbuyer
JimT
Reply to  SWbuyer
18 August 2020 10:06 am

Don’t get me wrong: I don’t disagree with what has been done and how it all has been handled. It had to be done that way, obviously.
It’s just that looking at that wide expanse of sun and sand on the other side of the fence at the height of summer is just so sad. No other word for it.

Last edited 1 month ago by JimT
Cobourgienne
Reply to  SWbuyer
18 August 2020 10:39 am

We have been driving 40 minutes to Presqu’ile all summer. Of course, it costs us $16.75 to get in, but the people self-distance and there are no known cases of C-19. It is possible when one tries.

Conor
Reply to  Cobourgienne
21 August 2020 3:33 pm

Wait a minute. You drove to Presqu’ile to go to the beach? Would local Brighton people not call you an “out of towner” as Cobourg residents like to call us. Of course you didn’t leave any garbage behind or spend any money locally?

beach lover
Reply to  SWbuyer
18 August 2020 10:54 am

Within a few weeks kids will be sitting indoors with questionable air quality and without masks but they’re not allowed to walk outdoors on Victoria Beach? There have been NO cases of COVID-19 traced to ANY of the beaches or parks in Ontario despite all the media hype about over-crowding. Even Wasaga beach has consistently reported a lower incidence rate than the majority other towns in Simcoe Muskoka. If you look at the research, cases are being spread due to family events taking place indoors not at beaches. It’s totally unnecessary to keep Victoria Beach closed past Labour Day due to C19.

Erik innis
Reply to  beach lover
18 August 2020 12:02 pm

The fence is up, make it permanent! Residence’s free, (season pass) all others pay a user fee…. Monies collected, pays for life guards, toilets, beach cleaning, etc.
Limit amount of wrist bands sold daily at a local kiosk. And I agree stop the fear mongering about COVID outside!
EI

SWbuyer
Reply to  beach lover
18 August 2020 3:30 pm

I made no comment about opening Victoria beach or not. I simply observed that Cobourg, or any town without C19, how wonderful that would be.

Last edited 1 month ago by SWbuyer
beach lover
Reply to  SWbuyer
18 August 2020 6:11 pm

This thread is actually about opening Victoria Beach.

Audrey
Reply to  beach lover
18 August 2020 7:39 pm

The thread has unearthed other concerns the citizens have that tie into the topic.

Sam
Reply to  Audrey
20 August 2020 1:33 pm

Perhaps Bigotry and Bias have been unearthed?

Informed
Reply to  Sam
20 August 2020 2:20 pm

Its sad when people through these words out here for no good reason.I actually think it sometimes creates bigotey when there is none.

Informed
Reply to  beach lover
20 August 2020 1:33 pm

What about a nice walk through the park and a swim at the centennial pool. A trip to Dq on the way home? There are other things to do.

Dee
Reply to  JimT
18 August 2020 9:13 pm

All those in favour of opening the beach.
Great for you there will be a mandatory sign up for you to go pick up the trash left behind, run the machine to rake the beach, and empty overflowing garbage cans, sanitize porta potty and tasks to keep the beach pristine to keep it’s reputation. Then you can be there some of the 24/7 to make sure everyone is 6 foot social distancing.

Rob
Reply to  Dee
19 August 2020 3:53 pm

Dee – Should we assume you do all those things when you travel outside of the borders of Cobourg. Do you empty the overflowing street side trashcan in Toronto when you go to a show? Do you polish the railing at the Ranney Gorge Suspension Bridge in Campbellford when you visit with family from out of town? Do you help shovel the Rideau Canal after going for a skate? Have you swept the streets after viewing Niagara Falls?