Starbucks coming to Cobourg

The famous coffee shop originally planned to come here in 2008 but the financial crisis caused them to put that on hold.  But now they plan to go into the new plaza at the Mall that is currently being constructed.  Lydia Smith raised the subject with Council and Councillor Nicole Beatty who is the Coordinator for Planning said that “it’s been publicly presented that a Starbucks is proposed as a potential business to occupy one of the storefronts being constructed as part of the new exterior building at Northumberland Mall.”  She also provided the plan showing the location – see image below.  Over the past few months, there has been a lot of work at the Mall – a rework of the entrance and parking near Metro, getting ready for the new Giant Tiger and the new plaza on Elgin Street.  These have all been reported on this blog – see Links.

New Plaza with Starbucks
New Plaza with Starbucks

Lydia’s email was making the case that instead of explicitly promoting Economic Development, the Town should “be involved in creating an environment that underpins/supports private enterprise”.  She quoted David Blakely who gave the example of the criteria that Starbucks use:

Starbucks location criteria (per David Blakely)

  • Neighborhoods of $60,000 and over median household income and at least 2 mobile phones per household (for easy payment of purchases).
  • Employee base. Places of general offices or industrial can bring them more volumes of customers. 18-45 is the key target market.
  • Proximity to other business or College They usually like a mix of national and regional retail tenants as a draw with them so that they can have higher traffic and population.
  • Preferred traffic counts of several thousand vehicles per day.
  • Preferred locations at signalized corners with multiple access points. They prefer locations on main path of traffic with easy ingress and egress , and they want to be as visible as possible.
  • Morning commute side (going-to-work side) preferred. Morning commute side means The peak time is about 7:15 to7:30am. People usually grab a coffee on their way to work instead of on the way back home.
  • Dedicated parking for at least 20 vehicles. This might be subjected to specific zoning code of the Town. 

Lydia’s email was copied to Councillors and some others.

There’s been no statement from Mall management on timing but Spring seems a good bet.

Links

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Skinner
19 November 2020 6:04 am

Chain should be called Sixbucks, as that’s what their coffee costs

Informed
11 November 2020 10:10 am

I dont personally like starbucks but any new business coming to Cobourg is good news. Its alot better than hearing business is pulling out, no matter how insignificant it may seem. It all adds up. Good news on the Westons building and new business!

Dubious
7 November 2020 11:50 pm

There have been no comments that a Starbucks will destroy downtown coffee shops as the mall and Walmart and Home Depot supposedly did for everything downtown. Why the different reaction?

MiriamM
Reply to  Dubious
8 November 2020 9:16 am

Speaking for myself, I do not buy at Starbucks because I do not like their coffee. Doubtful my coffee buying habits will change much. And when I buy coffee out, unless I am travelling and also needing a washroom, it is usually a sit down experience with a view and friends. A drive through with a stack of up to 21 cars and surrounded by asphalt would not typically qualify. The mall area will improve … the challenge is for downtown to continue to do its own thing even better!

Runner 72
7 November 2020 10:48 pm

And what about the Symposium Cafe with signage and a building permit for one hundred dollars renovations but no action for at least nine months. What happened to that cafe?

Frenchy
7 November 2020 1:04 pm

I can’t think of anything less newsworthy (or interesting) than “Starbucks coming to Cobourg“.

CATHERINE Gee
Reply to  Frenchy
7 November 2020 2:06 pm

It’s exciting for the residents of Cobourg, to finally have a Starbuck and a few more jobs!

CATHERINE Gee
Reply to  Frenchy
7 November 2020 2:17 pm

If in doubt, where the Great shopping is, ask Mrs Joan Gee, she has perfected it, over the past 60 yrs!

Frenchy
Reply to  CATHERINE Gee
7 November 2020 10:05 pm

John, methinks you’ve got something fishy going on with CATHERINE Gee.

JimT
Reply to  Frenchy
7 November 2020 6:19 pm

It’s a vote for the economic future of the area by business managers who know their stuff and have obviously done the research needed to support their substantial investment.

Frenchy
Reply to  JimT
9 November 2020 7:18 am

Oh, something like the business managers who knew their stuff when they thought they would bring Target to Canada?

Skinner
Reply to  Frenchy
19 November 2020 5:45 am

and here you are commenting, duh

MiriamM
7 November 2020 9:25 am

Deja vu … except this time there appears to be a new format for the company which is closing hundreds of existing stores and moving towards a corporate wide pre-order/pick-up store format. Serving the 401 traffic corridor also, it seems. And when the pandemic issues settle, more train travel commuters to return.

Liz Taylor
Reply to  MiriamM
7 November 2020 12:25 pm

Yes Miriam many stores have put in pre-order pick up but still have a store to shop in. I see Giant Tiger, Northern Reflections, to be or are Mall businesses and others have this service but you can still shop in their stores. Simpsons and Eatons had the same format years ago too so I guess that is what you mean as Deja vu – however there are many places you can connect to on the internet and there just is no store – just order from the internet. Recall looking at places houses on the internet – what a great price I thought until I saw them – the defects didn ‘t show in the pictures but you could at least go and look at them – not so with goods on the internet – you don’t see them until you have bought them.

MiriamM
Reply to  Liz Taylor
7 November 2020 1:00 pm

hi Liz,
I remember Simpsons (or was it Simpson-Sears?), later Sears, and Eaton catalogue stores both in downtown Cobourg! And the catalogues that arrived at home. When I wrote deja vu I was referring to the story Starbucks had planned to open at this location in Cobourg previously. It seems like a type of lead store with name recognition, similar to having a big name retailer anchor a mall collection of stores. In addition, Northumberland Mall is interesting, as far as malls tend to be, because it is also within walking distance of a growing residential area. And, on internet shopping, there was a news piece not long ago about the returns, stuff people bought and sent back, and what happens to returned items … mostly sent to landfill.

Liz Taylor
Reply to  MiriamM
7 November 2020 1:11 pm

Hi Miriam – I guess Cobourg is growing then and the population dynamic is changing. I read Starbucks would only open in communities that showed a higher income return. With developments in the both the east and west ends it shows influx of new cash and residents that have the ability to move up.

Scary on where the returns end up Miriam – thanks for the info.

With revitalization of the Mall I hope people will remember to support businesses where they live. Rental and housing prices, as well as services are limited in small places with little business presence. But I wouldn’t want to live in a place that offered me nothing in retail shopping and apparently others feel the same as they don’t grow they often fade away. Thinking of a place that was once on Highway 7 – labelled the lost highway.

Liz Taylor
6 November 2020 4:19 pm

Very glad to see Northumberland Mall is being revitalized. There are most certainly more I have failed to read of. A central mall is in every larger centre and Cobourg is growing. How sad that very good businesses in the mall have been struggling. Perhaps with more occupied businesses retail leases will be lowered in cost. On line shopping may be fine for some but for me recalls the days of catalogue shopping – will it fit? Will it look like it does on the model? Shall I have to return it? The interaction of in person shopping is an added healthy feature. Hermitted away, ordering on line creates more public isolation.

Conor
Reply to  Liz Taylor
6 November 2020 8:46 pm

Believe you me Starbucks is nothing to get excited about. Imagine all the rift raff out of towners it will attract and the garbage they will leave on the beach when it opens.

Stan
Reply to  Conor
7 November 2020 2:21 pm

I can’t tell if this is a parody or not…

Canuck Patriot
Reply to  Conor
8 November 2020 9:16 am

Perhaps they will create a new beverage in your name. The Conor Beach Riff-Raff Freeloader Latte.

Conor
Reply to  Canuck Patriot
8 November 2020 9:25 am

You seem to have some issues with me that I cannot understand. You wouldn’t be a Canuck Patriot if you frequent Starbucks would you?

Canuck Patriot
Reply to  Conor
8 November 2020 1:51 pm

I’m a Tim’s patriot who happens to disagree with you on how my tax
dollars should be spent.

Sorry but you are not entitled to a free ride on the public tab. What freebies are you offering the out-of-town cheapskates visiting Whitby?

Cobourg will survive quite well without your massive infusion of cash at local businesses. Just how much do you spend on each visit to our beach?

Conor
Reply to  Canuck Patriot
8 November 2020 3:18 pm

Just for the record Tim’s is American owned. When you come to Whitby we don’t charge you for beach or waterfront facilities as with most other towns in Ontario. Do you ask other visitors how much they spend in town? You need to relax a bit and visit other towns and cities and see how they manage beach tourists and others.

Sandpiper
Reply to  Liz Taylor
7 November 2020 9:57 am

It took creditor take over , a complete change of ownership and management to accomplish this
but someone and some investor Pension fund took a real hit didn’t they !
Just another investment into Cobourg gone under .
Not nice but Reality . Check it out before you comment .

Liz Taylor
Reply to  Sandpiper
7 November 2020 12:19 pm

I did – the prior article in the Cobourg Blog stated tenants were moving out and mall looked tired. While traversing the mall I couldn’t help but notice it was basically deserted before Sandpiper – some days you could have shot a cannon ball through there and not hit anyone at all. Some of the mall store chains went bankrupt nationwide – others moved to new locations such as King Street. Looks like revitalization has been coming for a long time – read the petition that was issued prior to this on reviving the place. So please don’t tell me to check it out before commenting I did. You will note I did not say that to you.

Sandpiper
Reply to  Liz Taylor
9 November 2020 8:36 am

No this was just the Parent Mall owner & investors one I believe was a pension fund Not just individual stores . one of my friends is a investment broker
and he monitors the assets of some funds to see exactly whats going on
not just listen to the Propaganda of the market place . Amazing how the town kept this so quiet back then Just like the Kraft plant Marijuana deals

Liz Taylor
Reply to  Sandpiper
7 November 2020 1:59 pm

Your tone distracted me Sandpiper in what I wished to say. I recall a major women’s clothing store going bankrupt recently. They had been around for over 50 years. They did offer internet shopping as well as in-store. However they went out of business I think as I recall starting out trying on their clothes. Buy a size bigger there – they scimped on the cut and even a size larger one would find a blouse too tight over the arms. Their pants there was no hem to let down period. So they went out as many will do but to offer no instore shopping is not what I hope to see. There are many reasons for businesses to fail. Some their styles catered to a generation now gone. Nice to have a place for an exchange of ideas Sandpiper. Were you effected by the Investor Pension fail? I hope not.

Conor
Reply to  Liz Taylor
10 November 2020 2:46 pm

Do you want to know why the mall isn’t doing well? It’s because the local shoppers do not support it. Your comment “Some of their styles catered to a generation now gone’ is truly insulting for some. Remember one day you will be part of the generation now gone. It’s disgusting that once was a beautiful small mall is failing because of lack of local interest.

Rob
Reply to  Conor
10 November 2020 3:15 pm

Conor – I think support for the mall is a bit of a chicken and egg thing. The mall lost its two anchor stores, Sears and Zellers. These two stores drew shoppers into the building from a broad demographic. They also decided to remove the food court in favour of SportChek. Marks moved across the street. All of this was compounded by higher than average lease rates which drove some out (Ferreri’s, Quattro), an increase in ecommerce and introduction of Walmart. Metro is not much of an anchor as it generally caters to a more well-heeled shopper. Business after business have either declared bankruptcy (Le Chateau, Bentley, RadioShack, Goodlife, etc..) or moved away from traditional brick and mortar (like Ardene’s). I think the mall has a chance to reinvent itself and I think Northumberland could support a shopping centre with intelligent store & outlet choices.

Conor
Reply to  Rob
10 November 2020 3:18 pm

Point taken

Johanne
Reply to  Rob
10 November 2020 5:00 pm

We all know a mall is not a destination for second hand businesses. Taxes at the Mall are the highest in the country, I discussed with their manager at one time. Metro has nice products and imports like nowhere else and is canadian. / According to past studies coffee shops downtown could be a success among service and shops meeting our needs as an aging community. A dead downtown is not part of a healthy and vibrant economy. A free transportation to both mall and downtown could be used as a benefit and a pilot project. A Swiss Chalet take out would be interesting downtown.

Dubious
Reply to  Rob
10 November 2020 11:06 pm

The Dollar Store is always busy. The updated Metro is nice. Other than those and Staples there is nothing for anyone at the mall.

Rob
Reply to  Dubious
11 November 2020 8:49 am

Dubious – I have to agree with you (which rarely happens) 🙂 , I LOVE the new metro. I try to avoid the Dollar Store although at one time the Toronto Star had an annual “top ten things to try/buy” at the Dollar Store which was somewhat fun. The Dollar Store is filled with cheaply made, short lived products that resemble the good quality products we once bought. I think Canada’s Giant Tiger will pull significantly from Walmart and the Dollar Store. Their timing couldn’t be better as Canadians are feeling very supportive of Canadian businesses these days.

Dubious
Reply to  Rob
11 November 2020 8:56 am

I shop at both the new Metro and the Dollar store. Yes, the Dollar store sells poorly made Chinese cr*p. However, the source is the same and the quality is similar to much of the stuff sold by Canadian Tire and other local stores. The difference is a much lower price. Why pay a premium?

Liz Taylor
Reply to  Rob
11 November 2020 4:06 am

Rob you are right about the mall and needed to be supported by local shoppers. Starbucks did a study and will only open when they find a higher median income. Metro therefore you would think would be busier. Bentley’s was very reasonably priced – will have to look somewhere else to buy my purse and scarves this year.

Liz Taylor
Reply to  Conor
11 November 2020 3:14 am

Say what Conor? I wasn’t referring to any store that ever was in the mall. I was speaking in generalities of why a business may fail, the examples I gave were of stores that never were in the mall. One scimped on material, you needed a larger size, many returns therefore for on line shoppers and a cost for the store on all the returns. I have always promoted and practice buying where I live – do you?

CATHERINE Gee
Reply to  Liz Taylor
7 November 2020 2:13 pm

Ask Mrs Joan Gee where all the Great places for shopping are, she has perfected it, in the past 60 years!

JimT
6 November 2020 1:31 pm

Perhaps now we all have better insight into the various factors that decide why businesses choose to locate up the highway instead of down town – and who would blame them for locating where their best market is?

Last edited 19 days ago by JimT